If Fianna Fail win the next election, will we see boom time policies?

antimatterx

There's going to be an election within the next year. That's for certain. But if FF won, do you reckon we will see a return to boom time policies?

Tax cuts, money thrown at people. Big big plans on paper? Relaxed mortgage rules, big capital investment projects?

Eric Cartman

no, there is no party who have any ambitions of cutting taxes. they'd spend like the clappers but sure its the same with all the rest of them.

EmmetSpiceland

No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

noodler

We've been seeing book time policies for the last five years.

lawred2

So now penal levels of personal taxes are just to be accepted!?

Couldn't be seen to be looking for 'tax cuts'...

Eric Cartman

lawred2 wrote: »

So now penal levels of personal taxes are just to be accepted!?

Couldn't be seen to be looking for 'tax cuts'...

nah, people who work don't matter, they just target the groups easiest to appease , give the unemployed some more dole and they won't come out, give parents a little more child benefit or ECCE schemes or whatever and theyll calm down, start another quango to investigate giving us a service we dont really need or want, hand the contract to a mate, let its costs spiral, sure you'll be retired on a TD's pension before anyone realises you took us all for a ride.

Given the imminent recession, I'm gonna go with no.

lawred2

Eric Cartman wrote: »

nah, people who work don't matter, they just target the groups easiest to appease , give the unemployed some more dole and they won't come out, give parents a little more child benefit or ECCE schemes or whatever and theyll calm down, start another quango to investigate giving us a service we dont really need or want, hand the contract to a mate, let its costs spiral, sure you'll be retired on a TD's pension before anyone realises you took us all for a ride.

Well parents generally tend to be subject to the same penal taxation so I'm not sure why you made them an exclusive group.

All these schemes are bollocks anyway.. give money direct to the provider to work as a contribution but then increase staff to child regulations and the child care provider has to increase fees to cover added costs. Net benefit to working parent.. near zero.

Eric Cartman

lawred2 wrote: »

Well parents generally tend to be subject to the same penal taxation so I'm not sure why you made them an exclusive group.

the government keeps them quieter by handing them back their own money through silly schemes and makes it seem like theyre being sound by 'giving' them something.

noodler

Taxes have been cut four budgets in a row.

This time, just extra tax credits for self employed (well, getting them closer to PAYE ones).

Pension increases four budgets in a row, same with welfare.

Capital spending is doubling.

An extra billion a year on health.

Free gp care for over 70s and under 8s.

More medical cards for wealthy old people. Lower prescription charges as well.

New childcare schemes.

There's tonnes more.

We are spending and cutting tax plenty.

Eric Cartman

noodler wrote: »

Taxes have been cut four budgets in a row.

This time, just extra tax credits for self employed (well, getting them closer to PAYE ones).

Pension increases four budgets in a row, same with welfare.

Capital spending is doubling.

An extra billion a year on health.

Free gp care for over 70s and under 8s.

More medical cards for wealthy old people. Lower prescription charges as well.

New childcare schemes.

There's tonnes more.

We are spending and cutting tax plenty.

with the exception of that self employed tax credit, there has been no meaningful cut at all for the middle income earners who pay most of the tax in this country. A person on 30-80k a year is no better off than they were a decade ago.

Danzy

They've received millions in donations in the last few years.

They'll go in owing favours and tax money to give to friends.

GMSA

What about the c.220bn debt after the last episode?

lawred2

Eric Cartman wrote: »

with the exception of that self employed tax credit, there has been no meaningful cut at all for the middle income earners who pay most of the tax in this country. A person on 30-80k a year is no better off than they were a decade ago.

I'd say worse off.

touts

Well sometime soon a party is going to cop on that the welfare class don't actually vote. The party who runs on cutting tax and cutting welfare to balance it gets an overall majority.

Eric Cartman

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd say worse off.

with the increase in the cost of living and the things taxes have gone up on, absolutely yes. Sure in 2007 a litre of diesel was 89 cent at the pump , now 1.30 a litre is a great price. The cost of alcohol, cigarettes, food, hotels, everything up. It was 100% more affordable for the average person to live during the pinnacle of the property boom in 07 than it has been at any point since.

Loafing Oaf

touts wrote: »

Well sometime soon a party is going to cop on that the welfare class don't actually vote. The party who runs on cutting tax and cutting welfare to balance it gets an overall majority.

Strange that the route to power is so straightforward yet nobody is availing of it

lola85

GMSA wrote: »

What about the c.220bn debt after the last episode?

All is forgiven.

Harry Palmr

FF are the party party so the answer is yes if they achieved an overall majority but they obviously won't, so be thankful for small mercies when it turns out they are being kept in power by various sectional malcontents from across the ideological specturm.

noodler

Eric Cartman wrote: »

with the exception of that self employed tax credit, there has been no meaningful cut at all for the middle income earners who pay most of the tax in this country. A person on 30-80k a year is no better off than they were a decade ago.

That simply isn't true.

Budgets 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 all either reduced tax rates, bands or increased tax credits. Would have cost well over a billion.

I dunno why they do it, no political credit for it.

road_high

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd say worse off.

Personal taxes are still at an extremely high level/ whilst this might be ok if those same workers could ever see anything for those taxes but unfortunately it’s the exact opposite. FG had a mantra of rewarding work but tbh all they’ve done is pander to the ungrateful welfare classes who don’t even vote for them and will never be satisfied. FF are a high welfare spending party too so for genuine workers Irish political parties offer very little

road_high

noodler wrote: »

That simply isn't true.

Budgets 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 all either reduced tax rates, bands or increased tax credits. Would have cost well over a billion.

I dunno why they do it, no political credit for it.

That’s because they’re coming off a massive level and any small cut seems like tinkering around the edges and made very little sizeable difference to what is robbed monthly off our salary slips.
And yet the Xmas bonus remains for those contributing zilch. It would be funny if it wasn’t our money and so despairing

lola85

road_high wrote: »

That’s because they’re coming off a massive level and any small cut seems like tinkering around the edges and made very little sizeable difference to what is robbed monthly off our salary slips.
And yet the Xmas bonus remains for those contributing zilch. It would be funny if it wasn’t our money and so despairing

Have to laugh when people say FG only care about the rich.

The welfare brigade have been spoiled under this government.

noodler

road_high wrote: »

That’s because they’re coming off a massive level and any small cut seems like tinkering around the edges and made very little sizeable difference to what is robbed monthly off our salary slips.
And yet the Xmas bonus remains for those contributing zilch. It would be funny if it wasn’t our money and so despairing

That's ridiculous.

Income tax increases are tinkering around the edges, by and large, and it's the same when they go down.

It would be wholly irresponsible, and unaffordable, to reduce income taxes at the scale you are hinting at.

And I say hinting because you'd need to be a bit less vague.

Edit:. For an example, someone on 50,000 gross will pay approx. 1,300/1,400 less in tax in 2020 than they would in 2015.

That's very expensive when applied to entire working population.

Sleeper12

antimatterx wrote:

Tax cuts, money thrown at people. Big big plans on paper? Relaxed mortgage rules, big capital investment projects?

We've had reckless budgets since the Troika left. We got away with it because of low interest rates, low fuel prices & almost zero inflation but the government has played fast and loose with our finances all the same. We have had billions pumped into Irish water so the water infrastructure won't be on our ballance books. Guess what? It's still on our books. They spent over 50 million on consultants setting up Irish water and its billing structure yet no domestic bills go out. We have the most expensive children's hospital in the world being built on the wrong site. We have a national broadband rollout providing broadband service to every home in the county weather you want it or not. Throwing billions into a company we will never own.

Do you really think FG have been prudent with our finances? Honestly?

Eric Cartman

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Strange that the route to power is so straightforward yet nobody is availing of it

they always add a religious angle or somethign else to crock it up.

lola85

Sleeper12 wrote: »

We've had reckless budgets since the Troika left. We got away with it because of low interest rates, low fuel prices & almost zero inflation but the government has played fast and loose with our finances all the same. We have had billions pumped into Irish water so the water infrastructure won't be on our ballance books. Guess what? It's still on our books. They spent over 50 million on consultants setting up Irish water and its billing structure yet no domestic bills go out. We have the most expensive children's hospital in the world being built on the wrong site. We have a national broadband rollout providing broadband service to every home in the county weather you want it or not. Throwing billions into a company we will never own.

Do you really think FG have been prudent with our finances? Honestly?

The national broadband plan is sound and anyone with a bit of sense knows that.

Plumbthedepths

lola85 wrote: »

The national broadband plan is sound and anyone with a bit of sense knows that.

You should do stand up.

Plumbthedepths

I fully expect Leo to run to the 'Park' before Christmas. 4 bye elections in November. If a Brexit deal ( it is looking more likely)is secured we will have the pleasure of being told multiple lies on our doorsteps . FF will lead the next government but there won't be any boom as a recession is just over the horizon unfortunately.

lola85

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You should do stand up.

What’s wrong it?

Honestly I’m reading the NBP thread here regularly and people who know about this stuff reckon it’s a good idea.

I’m open to correction if you provide examples.

Plumbthedepths

lola85 wrote: »

What’s wrong it?

Honestly I’m reading the NBP here regularly and people who know about this stuff reckon it’s a good idea.

I’m open to correction if you provide examples.

A poster has already outlined the issues to you which you choose to ignore.

JohnnyFlash

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A poster has already outlined the issues to you which you choose to ignore.

Where is it? The outline of why it’s a bad idea?

lola85

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A poster has already outlined the issues to you which you choose to ignore.

Where?

Honestly I didn’t see it.

Idbatterim

I’ll give them credit for the lack of welfare rises. They are so spineless, I thought they’d definitely increase them. Several hundred million less sent up in smoke anyway!

I don’t really agree with the nbp, but on the other hand , it’s oribably a better use of money than scrapping it and wasting it on much of the other sh*te where they would no doubt squander it

Plumbthedepths

lola85 wrote: »

Where?

Honestly I didn’t see it.

Strange as you responded to the posters comment.

lola85

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Strange as you responded to the posters comment.

That’s the reason why the NBP isn’t sound?

Are you for real?

The poster said because it’s been rolled out to houses whether they want it or not?

Sure if we applied that logic to gas, electricity, oil, roads, train tracks n the past we would be still living like cavemen!!

You come across as someone who just wants to moan for the sake of it.

Yer Da sells Avon

Eric Cartman wrote: »

A person on 30-80k a year is no better off than they were a decade ago.

They're particularly worse off if they're either renting or saving.

lola85

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They're particularly worse off if they're either renting or saving.

Why should they be better off than a decade ago?????

road_high

noodler wrote: »

That's ridiculous.

Income tax increases are tinkering around the edges, by and large, and it's the same when they go down.

It would be wholly irresponsible, and unaffordable, to reduce income taxes at the scale you are hinting at.

And I say hinting because you'd need to be a bit less vague.

Edit:. For an example, someone on 50,000 gross will pay approx. 1,300/1,400 less in tax in 2020 than they would in 2015.

That's very expensive when applied to entire working population.

Not at all- you slash frivolous spending (hello Xmas bonus!) and cut welfare at full employment. Give the savings to workers. It ain’t rocket science but we have an extremely vocal minority who are living off the state and loudly resist any reform.
Ireland badly needs an economically hard right govt to whip the state finances into shape- long run it would transform our society and work ethic for the better

JRant

noodler wrote: »

That's ridiculous.

Income tax increases are tinkering around the edges, by and large, and it's the same when they go down.

It would be wholly irresponsible, and unaffordable, to reduce income taxes at the scale you are hinting at.

And I say hinting because you'd need to be a bit less vague.

Edit:. For an example, someone on 50,000 gross will pay approx. 1,300/1,400 less in tax in 2020 than they would in 2015.

That's very expensive when applied to entire working population.

Not sure I follow?
How is it expensive?
That money belongs to whoever earned it. Now if the government want to take that money and actually provide something useful with it for the workers, then great, I'm all for it.
The problem is they take a considerable chunk out of people's salaries and for the most part they get nothing back. Working families paying thousands a month on childcare and high variable mortgage rates due to bizarre laws being passed making it extremely difficult for Banks to repossess.

I'd much rather take the 8% "Temporary" USC that is stolen from my salary every month and invest it in my own PSA and health plan.

At every turn, this government does less and less for workers in this country.

road_high

lola85 wrote: »

Why should they be better off than a decade ago?????

Because most of us have an aspiration to improve our lot and enjoy the fruits of working harder. In Ireland that’s almost a deadly sin though- we must share with those that contribute nothing

Eric Cartman

lola85 wrote: »

Why should they be better off than a decade ago?????

what kind of mad question is that, should they be worse off ?

noodler

JRant wrote: »

Not sure I follow?
How is it expensive?
That money belongs to whoever earned it. Now if the government want to take that money and actually provide something useful with it for the workers, then great, I'm all for it.
The problem is they take a considerable chunk out of people's salaries and for the most part they get nothing back. Working families paying thousands a month on childcare and high variable mortgage rates due to bizarre laws being passed making it extremely difficult for Banks to repossess.

I'd much rather take the 8% "Temporary" USC that is stolen from my salary every month and invest it in my own PSA and health plan.

At every turn, this government does less and less for workers in this country.

Taxes aren't theft.

Grow up.

Remarkable sideways tangent there to the original points made.

lola85

Eric Cartman wrote: »

what kind of mad question is that, should they be worse off ?

No but constantly trying to give more and people wanting more is the reason we are in 220 billion euro debt.

Can people not live within their means anymore?

Or is it we all want more more more.

And to hell with the repercussions.

JRant

noodler wrote: »

Taxes aren't theft.

Grow up.

Remarkable sideways tangent there to the original points made.

Of course they are, it's just state sanctioned theft. They use workers money for their own vanity projects with little to no regards as how it should actually be spent.

Consider the amount of working people in Dublin who would benefit from a large metro project being built. No more hour long commutes from Swords to the city etc. But no, we need broadband for one off houses instead.

lola85

JRant wrote: »

Of course they are, it's just state sanctioned theft. They use workers money for their own vanity projects with little to no regards as how it should actually be spent.

Consider the amount of working people in Dublin who would benefit from a large metro project being built. No more hour long commutes from Swords to the city etc. But no, we need broadband for one off houses instead.

Or social housing for people who will never contribute to society.

Eric Cartman

lola85 wrote: »

No but constantly trying to give more and people wanting more is the reason we are in 220 billion euro debt.

Can people not live within their means anymore?

Or is it we all want more more more.

And to hell with the repercussions.

i too would like to massively savage government spending

JRant

lola85 wrote: »

Or social housing for people who will never contribute to society.

I have no problem with social or affordable housing. I actually think a large scale investment in this type would alleviate lot of the pressure on the rental market with the added benefit of actually providing a long term housing stock option for future generations.

JohnnyFlash

Eric Cartman wrote: »

what kind of mad question is that, should they be worse off ?

Issues around housing affordability are not confined to Ireland, and we actually provide far more support than the majority of our EU counterparts. Much of it has to do with greed and the ‘free market’ and the stuff you love advocating for.

noodler

JRant wrote: »

Of course they are, it's just state sanctioned theft. They use workers money for their own vanity projects with little to no regards as how it should actually be spent.

Consider the amount of working people in Dublin who would benefit from a large metro project being built. No more hour long commutes from Swords to the city etc. But no, we need broadband for one off houses instead.

Agree with you on the NBP (or at least the most expensive part of it covering the least people) but will have to agree to disagree on the rest.

JRant

Eric Cartman wrote: »

i too would like to massively savage government spending

The pension bill needs to be seriously reconsidered. How can the state still be paying out index linked defined benefit pensions?