Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Shefwedfan

VayNiice wrote: »

I'm very keen to see what way Farrell moves forward with our back row. Given how young and powerful the English back row is, we'll struggle to live with them for the foreseeable unless there are some big changes.
I think of everyone, Dan Leavy's value has risen the most, despite not playing. We missed his physicality and aggression massively. But who knows if he'll ever reach the same level again after his injury?

The only other Irish player who can come close to Leavy is Ruddock imo but he seems destined to live in POMs shadow.

I despair to think of ever having to see a back row of POM, VdF and Stander again. I'm a big VdF fan but between the three of them theres zero attacking threat. I'd really like to see Farrell move on to new options at 6 and 8. POM and Stander have had a full year to revive their form and have trotted out ****e over and over. Picking a player because he's delivered against an opposition before 11 months ago and played like a drain since is not good enough. Instead of ripping the lads a new arse hole in the post match reviews and picking them again regardless they need to be dropped. That will drive performances far more.

It'd be great to see Doris, Deegan or Rea get a chance this year.

I think Stander has done ok, problem is he is lined up by 3-4 players as they know the ball will go to him, I think it was first line out v NZ and he was nailed.,....this is typical with him and VDF and POM is same line up

Neil3030

I mostly only watch him play for Ireland but can CJ actually pass the ball? If so, he, along with our other forwards, need to start making more of a habit of same.

VayNiice

Neil3030 wrote: »

I mostly only watch him play for Ireland but can CJ actually pass the ball? If so, he, along with our other forwards, need to start making more of a habit of same.

There's a few lads in the team with hands like a pair of tits the way they've been dropping the ball left right and centre. You'd swear they don't even expect to be passed the ball sometimes

blinding

Passing is for cissys . Charge up , get knocked back , and keep doing it .

lawrencesummers

VayNiice wrote: »

There's a few lads in the team with hands like a pair of tits the way they've been dropping the ball left right and centre. You'd swear they don't even expect to be passed the ball sometimes

Whatever about CJ, Henshaws handling in the RWC was appalling. For a midfielder it was horrific to watch the mistakes he was making.

Neil3030

Of the 15 who started against NZ, aside from Murray and Sexton, I'd argue only Tadhg, Ryan and Ringer have hands that are anything worth talking about. Maybe VdF....

KWAG2019

Neil3030 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how England perform in the final, and whether they emptied the tank against NZ.

It's possibly hindsight biasing things, but Ireland just seem to be a level below NZ and Eng in terms of skill and athleticism. We're wiley grafters, and will always have it in our locker to beat these teams on our day when a few things go our way. But we simply don't have the speed, power and ball handling across the team that seems to now be the standard at the very top. And I don't think you can compensate; if you're not winning the collisions and moving the ball quickly into the very short-lived space that ensues, I don't think there's any way to consistently make up for that.

And sadly it just doesn't seem to be in our DNA. We have been a fairly homogenous gene pool until quite recently, not exactly tuned to produce power and size. Our tiny population also puts us at a distinct disadvantage.

It really doesn't look good going forward. The game is moving increasingly toward NFL levels of athleticism and attrition, and I fear we'll be left behind.

Thread. All the rest is noise. We do not have the mobility, let alone the speed or the handling to compete at the top table. Add to that the inability to compete at the collision anymore and the end of the Schmidt era is very understandable. Hard to see anything but a trough for provinces and Ireland for quite some time.

shootermacg

KWAG2019 wrote: »

Thread. All the rest is noise. We do not have the mobility, let alone the speed or the handling to compete at the top table. Add to that the inability to compete at the collision anymore and the end of the Schmidt era is very understandable. Hard to see anything but a trough for provinces and Ireland for quite some time.

I wouldn't be so down. We've some pretty good players coming through and Larkham is trying to get an expansive game going at Munster, so you'd have to think the ball handling will pick up.

Squidgy Black

VayNiice wrote: »

I'm very keen to see what way Farrell moves forward with our back row. Given how young and powerful the English back row is, we'll struggle to live with them for the foreseeable unless there are some big changes.
I think of everyone, Dan Leavy's value has risen the most, despite not playing. We missed his physicality and aggression massively. But who knows if he'll ever reach the same level again after his injury?

The only other Irish player who can come close to Leavy is Ruddock imo but he seems destined to live in POMs shadow.

I despair to think of ever having to see a back row of POM, VdF and Stander again. I'm a big VdF fan but between the three of them theres zero attacking threat. I'd really like to see Farrell move on to new options at 6 and 8. POM and Stander have had a full year to revive their form and have trotted out ****e over and over. Picking a player because he's delivered against an opposition before 11 months ago and played like a drain since is not good enough. Instead of ripping the lads a new arse hole in the post match reviews and picking them again regardless they need to be dropped. That will drive performances far more.

It'd be great to see Doris, Deegan or Rea get a chance this year.

Conan was unlucky to get injured, I think if he'd stayed fit there was a good chance he was going to unseat CJ. He's an 8 who can pass, has great feet too in terms of shifting the point of contact and has made some lovely linebreaks for Leinster.

The Rape of Lucretia

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Conan was unlucky to get injured, I think if he'd stayed fit there was a good chance he was going to unseat CJ. He's an 8 who can pass, has great feet too in terms of shifting the point of contact and has made some lovely linebreaks for Leinster.

No. He would have unsat POM. CJ at 6, without Danno would have been our best back row. Maybe its time to look at Hendie at 6.

tryagain

GREAT IDEA throw hendo into backrow maybe start Penny and start mcgrath at scrumhalf move henshaw to full back for next worl cup larmour on wing get stockdale to smarten up in defence we have to use our player base smarter this world cup was so bad .

blinding

tryagain wrote: »

GREAT IDEA throw hendo into backrow maybe start Penny and start mcgrath at scrumhalf move henshaw to full back for next worl cup larmour on wing get stockdale to smarten up in defence we have to use our player base smarter this world cup was so bad .

Do you seriously think Henshaw is going to be around for the next World Cup with his injury record , the attrition of his position and the way he plays ? He will probably be lucky to get two more years playing at a decent level .

tryagain

Henshaw has been set up as a grab and bash player but earlier in his career he had a great rugby brain and eye for space but these decisions need to be made right away. Scotland will come to Aviva in total transition start now we only need to make slight adjustments and peak at right time if we win 2 six nation in next world cup cycle winning breeds winners only thing that matters in world cup is winning it ,out in quarter or semi makes no difference we also need to look at other players C farrell can make a great center and can offload with Ringrose. Aki as an impact sub not subbed but impact use Carbery go with him now and Mcgrath speed up our attack and our players need to get fitter like the welsh they seem to be fitter than us all the time we need to stop moaning man up go again we beat NZ first time ever 3 years ago and again last year so we are going right direction but now we need to make adjustments now .

Shefwedfan

What about stop looking at a 4 year project and just break it up into a 2 and 2 year project

Freshen up the squad now but don’t throw out some of the more experienced players and see how it goes for 2 years

Then in 2 years time see who will/won’t make WC and then just concentrate on those players....we will have view then who has come up from u20 grand slam team etc...

We are constantly looking at 4 year plans but it doesn’t seem to work

Just an idea

I am not saying we shouldn’t change our style or not to drop players not performing

Just not to spend 4 years going on about a WC

bilston

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What about stop looking at a 4 year project and just break it up into a 2 and 2 year project

Freshen up the squad now but don’t throw out some of the more experienced players and see how it goes for 2 years

Then in 2 years time see who will/won’t make WC and then just concentrate on those players....we will have view then who has come up from u20 grand slam team etc...

We are constantly looking at 4 year plans but it doesn’t seem to work

Just an idea

I am not saying we shouldn’t change our style or not to drop players not performing

Just not to spend 4 years going on about a WC

To be fair I don't think Ireland have ever taken the approach of looking at it from a 4 year cycle perspective.

In truth you don't need to be building for the 2023 WC from the 2020 Six Nations, that said that doesn't mean our squad doesn't need freshening up, which to be you say yourself. It's not even necessarily a case of changing the personnel, but we need to change something.

I didn't think I'd say this a year ago but I think Joe has timed his exit well. Every coach has a shelf life and I think Joe had just about reached his, just like Eddie in 2008 and Deccie in 2013, although those two stayed on a year too long.

AbusesToilets

First objective has to be identifying how Farrell wants the team to play. Then selecting players who can fit that style.

I disagree about Ireland not having the ability to match England or NZ in terms of power or speed. That's just S&C, nothing magical about it. There's always going to be players like Vunipola, no point stressing about trying to match 0.01% genetic extreme. A more professional approach at the youth level would lay strong foundations for players coming through. If you look to the US, there are kids playing high school football who would put pro players to shame in the gym. That's what we should be aiming for, in a general sense.

bilston

I'm trying to figure out where we are going next June.

From I can tell we are playing two tests in Australia and then possibly a game against Fiji. Anyone able to confirm or deny this? The Australia games seem pretty much vonfirmed, but they aren't up on the IRFU website.

Neil3030

AbusesToilets wrote: »

First objective has to be identifying how Farrell wants the team to play. Then selecting players who can fit that style.

I disagree about Ireland not having the ability to match England or NZ in terms of power or speed. That's just S&C, nothing magical about it. There's always going to be players like Vunipola, no point stressing about trying to match 0.01% genetic extreme. A more professional approach at the youth level would lay strong foundations for players coming through. If you look to the US, there are kids playing high school football who would put pro players to shame in the gym. That's what we should be aiming for, in a general sense.

15 years ago, borderline professional training programs had already arrived. Weights sessions each morning, pitch session Monday Tuesday, Thursday, games on Wednesday and Sataurday. 3 of 5 lunch breaks devoted to team meetings. Video analysis sessions. Individual training programs for all players during the summer. Dietitians and supplement programs. Can only imagine what it's like now.

The problem is, only a handful of schools have the resources for this approach. Plus at some point you have to ask yourself what you're expecting kids to do, and what kind of childhood this gives them.

As for US high school athletes, of course you'll have more freak athletes in a country with a wider mix of genes, 100 times the population and far more PED usage amongst athletes trying to win college scholarships. Logistically we cannot and morally we should absolutely not replicate their system.

Shefwedfan

I seen in paper Ireland have a 3 match tour of NZ in 2022? Is that confirmed?

Starting to stick away the pennies if so an head over to see a cracking series win

The Lost Sheep

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I seen in paper Ireland have a 3 match tour of NZ in 2022? Is that confirmed?

Starting to stick away the pennies if so an head over to see a cracking series win

dont think so. We are going to oz next summer though I had thought we were due to go to Argentina based on world rugby tours schedule which was made years back.
And that tours schedule had us not going to new zealand at least 2024

Shefwedfan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

dont think so. We are going to oz next summer though I had thought we were due to go to Argentina based on world rugby tours schedule which was made years back.
And that tours schedule had us not going to new zealand at least 2024

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/ireland-set-for-three-test-tour-of-new-zealand-in-2022-1.3696787


I think it was in Sunday Indo today....

DGRulz

Saw this mentioned on Reddit yesterday, only one test vs Ireland confirmed but is also says full schedule to be confirmed so it could change later.

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2019/10/26/wallabies-2020-suncorp-bledisloe-ireland

thomond2006

I understand it's a money game but that makes it close to a year long season when you consider the August warm-ups. Ridiculous.

AbusesToilets

Neil3030 wrote: »

15 years ago, borderline professional training programs had already arrived. Weights sessions each morning, pitch session Monday Tuesday, Thursday, games on Wednesday and Sataurday. 3 of 5 lunch breaks devoted to team meetings. Video analysis sessions. Individual training programs for all players during the summer. Dietitians and supplement programs. Can only imagine what it's like now.

The problem is, only a handful of schools have the resources for this approach. Plus at some point you have to ask yourself what you're expecting kids to do, and what kind of childhood this gives them.

As for US high school athletes, of course you'll have more freak athletes in a country with a wider mix of genes, 100 times the population and far more PED usage amongst athletes trying to win college scholarships. Logistically we cannot and morally we should absolutely not replicate their system.

Wouldn't disagree, but I think that's the nature of professional sports nowadays. Most of them pretty much require an early commitment to focus on the sport over school etc to succeed.

Squidgy Black

thomond2006 wrote: »

I understand it's a money game but that makes it close to a year long season when you consider the August warm-ups. Ridiculous.

Been that way for a while now unfortunately. The turnaround between 6 Nations to European knockout games to the Summer tours and then the Autumn internationals is always ridiculous and ends up forcing players into rotation and forced rest periods. Especially when you ramp up the intensity of the summer tours and unlike the USA games or Japan etc.

Still not as bad as some of the Southern hemisphere sides, who play SR from Feb to June, play summer tour games in June, could be in the knockout stages of SR in July, then play Rugby Championship in August/September, then Autumn internationals.

AbusesToilets

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Been that way for a while now unfortunately. The turnaround between 6 Nations to European knockout games to the Summer tours and then the Autumn internationals is always ridiculous and ends up forcing players into rotation and forced rest periods. Especially when you ramp up the intensity of the summer tours and unlike the USA games or Japan etc.

Still not as bad as some of the Southern hemisphere sides, who play SR from Feb to June, play summer tour games in June, could be in the knockout stages of SR in July, then play Rugby Championship in August/September, then Autumn internationals.

So many of the ills in the sport are directly related to the calendar being so ****, and truthfully the 6Ns takes a large portion of the blame for that. If they acquiesced to moving the tournament forward, it could free up the space to allow domestic competitions to complete beforehand. Add a B&I league, or better yet a pan European one, and rugby would be in a lot better situation.

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

So many of the ills in the sport are directly related to the calendar being so ****, and truthfully the 6Ns takes a large portion of the blame for that. If they acquiesced to moving the tournament forward, it could free up the space to allow domestic competitions to complete beforehand. Add a B&I league, or better yet a pan European one, and rugby would be in a lot better situation.

6 nations is on at a time no other major sport is on so gets good revenue which keeps the unions afloat

Not sure why people would want to move

Scythica

If we're looking to play more expansively, then surely McCloskey needs to come into the equation in the centres - probably the best offloading centre we have?

Addison could also make a case for 13 (though prefer him at 15) if he could get a run of injury free games...

Faugheen

Scythica wrote: »

If we're looking to play more expansively, then surely McCloskey needs to come into the equation in the centres - probably the best offloading centre we have?

Addison could also make a case for 13 (though prefer him at 15) if he could get a run of injury free games...

Whatever about McCloskey, but Ringrose is the best and most complete 13 we have by a country mile.

VayNiice

Scythica wrote: »

If we're looking to play more expansively, then surely McCloskey needs to come into the equation in the centres - probably the best offloading centre we have?

Addison could also make a case for 13 (though prefer him at 15) if he could get a run of injury free games...

Farrells passing and offloading has been very good when he's been given the chance. I think a Farrell - Ringrose midfield would give us some good hands and powerful running together.