Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

ClanofLams

Neil3030 wrote: »

Wait, what?

Only 8 players are unchanged across those 5 games.

How on Earth is that "basically the same XV"?

You have literally just demonstrated that nearly half of the team was rotates across those fixtures.

Henderson was out for the first two six nations games. He said Kearney wasn’t 100% for England match, in fairness that might have just been a nice way of dropping him publicly. Sexton was injured or not 100% for Japan, Aki out with concussion. Sean O’Brien came back and got injured straight away again iirc. Aki was suspended for last game (not saying he would have started). He gave a couple of guys games in warmups alright.

There can certainly be a debate over whether his approach was right or not but I don’t think there’s much disputing that the first XV was pretty much unchanged for nine months despite a very poor run of form.

Faugheen

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Leavy was picked ahead of a fit VDF against NZ last autumn but pulled out the day of the game because of injury.

This isn’t true. Leavy was never making that game.

Neil3030

ClanofLams wrote: »

Henderson was out for the first two six nations games. He said Kearney wasn’t 100% for England match, in fairness that might have just been a nice way of dropping him publicly. Sexton was injured or not 100% for Japan, Aki out with concussion. Sean O’Brien came back and got injured straight away again iirc. Aki was suspended for last game (not saying he would have started). He gave a couple of guys games in warmups alright.

There can certainly be a debate over whether his approach was right or not but I don’t think there’s much disputing that the first XV was pretty much unchanged for nine months despite a very poor run of form.

Right, but this is a new line of argument. Simply posting the team sheets does not support the inflexibility hypothesis. Understanding why changes were predominantly made (injury) is more telling.

Downlinz

Skyfloater wrote: »

Then there's only two candidates, Ryan and Furlong.

Furlong missed 3 tackles last week and got obliterated by the Japanese scrum, when even was the last time he did something of note in the loose?
He's in abysmal form in 2019 and bizarrely seems to have flown under the radar for criticism.

Shefwedfan

Ahh sure Furlong is abysmal now as well.....

We may give up this rugby stuff!!!

P.Walnuts

Faugheen wrote: »

This isn’t true. Leavy was never making that game.

So you are saying Joe named Leavy for the game , knowing he was unfit....just so he could spring VDF on NZ ?

Come on man, stop your fan boy act.

Leavy was named starting 7 in the biggest game of the season, it's just fact.

P.Walnuts

Downlinz wrote: »

Furlong missed 3 tackles last week and got obliterated by the Japanese scrum, when even was the last time he did something of note in the loose?
He's in abysmal form in 2019 and bizarrely seems to have flown under the radar for criticism.

Eh breaking three Samoan tackles to score a try maybe?

Dubinusa

Our lads were awful. The entire year, they were poor. They looked lethargic, unfit and out of sorts. The match v Russia was incredibly poor. What was Joe thinking? How do we fall so far, so quickly? I don't have the answers, but watching other sides, I did notice that the back rows were vastly better than ours. England have 2 gems and NZ were brilliant. I think our strengths became a weakness. Our pack were poor and Murray and Sexton were awful.
Why suddenly did the team become the Keystone Kops?
I say the fault lays with Joe. For numerous reasons, including the one out Carrie's and the blind faith he had in Murray and Sexton.
Anyway, Joe is gone... hello Andy.

Shefwedfan

The back row is critical to Ireland. We have always had a strong back row but we have had issues recently with balance.

Something to consider is who Ireland have lost between the WC cycle.
Heaslip, SOB, Leavy, Conan, Nordi(who wasn't fit) to name a few. That is some loss of power and experience

It does give us a chance to rethink the whole back row and how it plays. All of the above would be our big ball carriers! are the players coming up of the same size/strenght? or do we have to be smart?

Running guys into Billy Vunipola is not going to work.....simple as that

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The back row is critical to Ireland. We have always had a strong back row but we have had issues recently with balance.

Something to consider is who Ireland have lost between the WC cycle.
Heaslip, SOB, Leavy, Conan, Nordi(who wasn't fit) to name a few. That is some loss of power and experience

It does give us a chance to rethink the whole back row and how it plays. All of the above would be our big ball carriers! are the players coming up of the same size/strenght? or do we have to be smart?

Running guys into Billy Vunipola is not going to work.....simple as that

I think the balance thing is right, individuals are all good although some playing below par recently but as a unit it’s not great. Heaslip is a big loss more so than SOB I think.

Wegians89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The back row is critical to Ireland. We have always had a strong back row but we have had issues recently with balance.

Something to consider is who Ireland have lost between the WC cycle.
Heaslip, SOB, Leavy, Conan, Nordi(who wasn't fit) to name a few. That is some loss of power and experience

It does give us a chance to rethink the whole back row and how it plays. All of the above would be our big ball carriers! are the players coming up of the same size/strenght? or do we have to be smart?

Running guys into Billy Vunipola is not going to work.....simple as that

I know you can’t put too much emphasis on individuals but I think leavy was a huge loss. He was as so vital to everything good in 2018. He brings a different element of aggression and is the type of backrow that is thriving at the World Cup, like curry, underhill etc.

Interested Observer

Andy Dunne was fairly interesting on the42.ie podcast (think it was published yesterday), found it very hard to disagree with a lot of what he was saying. Poor gameplan, players given a free pass by the management and media, incapability of playing in an unstructured manner, coaches trying have too much control over what is essentially 80 mins of chaos.

I still find it baffling enough that what we saw last weekend was the culmination of nearly a decade of Schmidt's coaching in Ireland. What happened to his goal of making Leinster the best passing team in Europe - why can't backs he picks over and over for Ireland make simple passes? Why did such an innovative coach reduce the gameplan to one out runners that just fails whenever a team stands up to us? Where was this ruthless streak that people talk about?

blinding

Didn’t Saracens give Leinster a good spanking in the Heineken Cup this year as well .

Yet another warning sign that was ignored .

Wegians89

People seem to think Farrell will be heavy influenced by Schmidt because he worked under him but don’t forget he’s worked under Lancaster too, if he could bring the best elements of both coaches, Farrell could be special

salmocab

blinding wrote: »

Didn’t Saracens give Leinster a good spanking in the Heineken Cup this year as well .

Yet another warning sign that was ignored .

A good spanking? 10 points if I remember right. Your really stretching if you think that was relevant to the World Cup.

blinding

salmocab wrote: »

A good spanking? 10 points if I remember right. Your really stretching if you think that was relevant to the World Cup.

Leinster were nowhere in that game in the second half .

Yes it was another warning . Another warning ignored .

Schmidt went in to tunnel vision and was not taking note of warning after warning .

Interested Observer

salmocab wrote: »

A good spanking? 10 points if I remember right. Your really stretching if you think that was relevant to the World Cup.

Plus when you add allegedly top class players such as POM, Stander, Stockdale, Best, Earls, Murray to the Leinster team then you would have thought you'd end up with a better team alright. Shouldn't have been a huge concern to the RWC.

salmocab

blinding wrote: »

Leinster were nowhere in that game in the second half .

Yes it was another warning . Another warning ignored .

Schmidt went in to tunnel vision and was not taking note of warning after warning .

It wasn’t a warning, second best team in Europe beaten by the best is all it was. Your just rooting around for things to throw at Schmidt. How Leinster played for 40 minutes last season wasn’t anything to do with Ireland.

aloooof

blinding wrote: »

Leinster were nowhere in that game in the second half .

Yes it was another warning . Another warning ignored .

Schmidt went in to tunnel vision and was not taking note of warning after warning .

Presumably we'll be able to find plenty of posts from you warning us of this at the time? Or are you just completely after-timing?

Shefwedfan

blinding wrote: »

Didn’t Saracens give Leinster a good spanking in the Heineken Cup this year as well .

Yet another warning sign that was ignored .

Small mistakes by Leinster allowed Saracens back into the game.


The decision not to kick out at half time, Ringrose deciding not to pass etc


Saracens are brilliant if they get into a lead and once they did that Leinster couldn't get going.



Maybe the last 20 mins but far from a spanking.



It is worth noting that both Leinster are Saracens are by a distance the two best teams in Europe.

Shefwedfan

salmocab wrote: »

I think the balance thing is right, individuals are all good although some playing below par recently but as a unit it’s not great. Heaslip is a big loss more so than SOB I think.

I agree. The individuals are good players but the combination for the current tactics was incorrect.



I have always said Heaslip was a huge loss, some people hated him but he was the go to man and done all that hard work. It was supposed to be his swansong at this WC......

blinding

Leinster may be one of the best teams in Europe but they were well beaten by Saracens that day . It was another warning . Another warning missed .

salmocab

blinding wrote: »

Leinster may be one of the best teams in Europe but they were well beaten by Saracens that day . It was another warning . Another warning missed .

Warning of what exactly do you think? Your suggesting that a team good enough to get to two finals and win one of them should have been a warning to the coach of Ireland of something. Your just looking for things to throw around at this stage. Surely a bigger warning would be the other 3 provinces not getting to finals?

aloooof

blinding wrote: »

Leinster may be one of the best teams in Europe but they were well beaten by Saracens that day . It was another warning . Another warning missed .

What about the Welsh clubs not even getting out of their groups, was it a warning for them? You're reading far to much into this. Non of the Welsh clubs have played any knock-out rugby last season. Yet look how their national team have performed.

tryagain

If we had Dan Leavy against NZ and take 10 stupid/simple mistakes out of performance and we would beat them our come close some players cracked under pressure NZ spent 24 years cracking frezzing at world cups we are going in right direction we have never been at this standard beating NZ twice last few years keep going at this rate just spread player base a bit more ,

Shefwedfan

I think we need to stop the discussion about Leavy. He has a serious injury and everyone fingers are crossed he comes back but it should be left at that. I wouldn't expect to see him till 2020/21 season

We have plenty of other options around Ireland young and old we need to concentrate on. Conan is out of 6 nations as well so it's a chance for other players to step into the team.

Interested Observer

blinding wrote: »

It was another warning . Another warning missed .

Does somebody need to change your batteries?

Clegg

blinding wrote: »

Leinster may be one of the best teams in Europe but they were well beaten by Saracens that day . It was another warning . Another warning missed .

You should probably rewatch the game.

Shefwedfan

I think we can all agree the form of the provinces in Europe doesn't seem to convert into form in the WC....

But we don't have to worry about that for 4 years.

salmocab

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think we can all agree the form of the provinces in Europe doesn't seem to convert into form in the WC....

But we don't have to worry about that for 4 years.

No it doesn’t although I do think that provinces playing well are more likely to produce better players for the international team but it doesn’t necessarily follow that the international team will play well. It’s 5 different coaches and setups looking for different things at different times.