Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

aloooof · 04-02-2020 4:03pm

kilns wrote: »

and yet how many time have POM CJ and VDF played together and have proven that they dont work together. If its broke dont bother fixing it

The funny thing is yes he may not be fully ready but you wont know until you put these guys in and even being not fully ready he will offer more than POM

How do you know this??

I've no issue with someone favouring one player over another, but it's the hubris / absolutes that tend to get thrown around that I'll never understand...

yerrahbah · 04-02-2020 4:06pm

Who goes to centre if Aki or Henshaw goes off?

Larmour?
Earls?
Sexton?

kilns · 04-02-2020 4:08pm

aloooof wrote: »

How do you know this??

I've no issue with someone favouring one player over another, but it's the hubris / absolutes that tend to get thrown around that I'll never understand...

Because he will offer more than zero going forward.

I am not saying if all fit Deegan should be starting but with what is available yes he should

prawnsambo · 04-02-2020 4:09pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

Who goes to centre if Aki or Henshaw goes off?

Larmour?
Earls?
Sexton?

Suspect either Earls or Larmour. Most likely Earls, otherwise you'd have to be shifting Stockdale or Conway to full back.

Interested Observer · 04-02-2020 4:10pm

Earls in the centre would just be the icing on the cake.

You'd wonder what specifically Rob Kearney did to be cut adrift considering the otherwise ultra-conservative approach being taken.

aloooof · 04-02-2020 4:11pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

Who goes to centre if Aki or Henshaw goes off?

Larmour?
Earls?
Sexton?

Was it Earls that moved there during the Samoa game, after Aki's red?

AbusesToilets · 04-02-2020 4:13pm

aloooof wrote: »

How do you know this??

I've no issue with someone favouring one player over another, but it's the hubris / absolutes that tend to get thrown around that I'll never understand...

You could line out and have a half decent shout of doing more than POM. How is this even a debate ? We have seasons worth of games to see how much of a passenger he is, and how crap Stander is at 8, but somehow we can't "risk" playing Deegan.

aloooof · 04-02-2020 4:14pm

kilns wrote: »

Because he will offer more than zero going forward.

Changing the goal posts. Spot the difference:

...he will offer more than POM

...he will offer more than POM going forward

daddy pig · 04-02-2020 4:15pm

molloyjh wrote: »

POM actually played well last week so I'd argue he is out of form at this stage.

The biggest issue with O'Mahony is that even if he has an excellent game it's still not what this Irish team will need. He hits his rucks, he has a turnover threat and is good in the lineout.
We are crying out for ball carriers in the backrow and the fact is that will never be something O'Mahony is capable of doing.
Stander had two turnovers at the weekend, would hit the same ruck numbers and would have a serious threat with the ball in hand. Stander has to play 6.

kilns · 04-02-2020 4:18pm

aloooof wrote: »

Changing the goal posts. Spot the difference:

No, you asked a question and I answered because the tangible difference will be he will offer more than POM going forward because it is not too difficult to better what POM offers going forward. Chances are he will tackle better too as he has a better tackle rate than POM in the European cup too.

arsebiscuits1 · 04-02-2020 4:19pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You could line out and have a half decent shout of doing more than POM. How is this even a debate ? We have seasons worth of games to see how much of a passenger he is, and how crap Stander is at 8, but somehow we can't "risk" playing Deegan.

There's hyperbole.

And then there is Boards Ireland forum during international windows hyperbole :rolleyes:

aloooof · 04-02-2020 4:20pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You could line out and have a half decent shout of doing more than POM. How is this even a debate ? We have seasons worth of games to see how much of a passenger he is, and how crap Stander is at 8, but somehow we can't "risk" playing Deegan.

I never said we can't risk Deegan. I'm just pointing out that anyone asserting that he will be better can't possibly know that to be the case. There are no certainties at this level of sport.

kilns · 04-02-2020 4:22pm

aloooof wrote: »

I never said we can't risk Deegan. I'm just pointing out that anyone asserting that he will be better can't possibly know that to be the case. There are no certainties at this level of sport.

Can he be any worse? He will no doubt offer more going forward and its what we need

Utah_Saint · 04-02-2020 4:25pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Suspect either Earls or Larmour. Most likely Earls, otherwise you'd have to be shifting Stockdale or Conway to full back.

bit of a mess. Not sure what the story was with Addison but it would have made more sense including him

AbusesToilets · 04-02-2020 4:25pm

aloooof wrote: »

I never said we can't risk Deegan. I'm just pointing out that anyone asserting that he will be better can't possibly know that to be the case. There are no certainties at this level of sport.

One.

That's how many tackles POM made last season against Wales.

One.

yerrahbah · 04-02-2020 4:27pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You could line out and have a half decent shout of doing more than POM. How is this even a debate ? We have seasons worth of games to see how much of a passenger he is, and how crap Stander is at 8, but somehow we can't "risk" playing Deegan.

Wow and CJ Stander got Man of the match at the weekend playing at 8

Interested Observer · 04-02-2020 4:27pm

Murray Kinsella has turned into an IRFU PR man it seems. Fairly disappointing.

daddy pig · 04-02-2020 4:28pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

bit of a mess. Not sure what the story was with Addison but it would have made more sense including him

Addison has Calf injury - https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1224693262931431425

Earls will cover 13 - if there's an early injury and we have O'Mahony at 6, Murray at 9 and Earls at 13 this thread will be a lot of fun

kilns · 04-02-2020 4:29pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

Wow and CJ Stander got Man of the match at the weekend playing at 8

to be fair I think everyone is in agreement that CJ is a world class 6 and that is his natural position

yerrahbah · 04-02-2020 4:34pm

kilns wrote: »

to be fair I think everyone is in agreement that CJ is a world class 6 and that is his natural position

I'm not saying that isn't the case,

I was responding to a claim that he is a crap 8, which he clearly isn't

kilns · 04-02-2020 4:36pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

I'm not saying that isn't the case,

I was responding to a claim that he is a crap 8, which he clearly isn't

he is not but he should be playing in his best position as he is far superior to POM as a 6. Then we should be finding someone to fill the 8 spot

arsebiscuits1 · 04-02-2020 4:37pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Murray Kinsella has turned into an IRFU PR man it seems. Fairly disappointing.

Why? Because he's a professional journo and realises that it might take more than 1 game to achieve continuity?

Honestly. Did you hope he'd be calling out Farrell already?

AbusesToilets · 04-02-2020 4:38pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

I'm not saying that isn't the case,

I was responding to a claim that he is a crap 8, which he clearly isn't

MotM are utterly meaningless. Stander is not a good 8. He doesn't carry effectively, and he isn't a ballhawk.

yerrahbah · 04-02-2020 4:41pm

kilns wrote: »

he is not but he should be playing in his best position as he is far superior to POM as a 6. Then we should be finding someone to fill the 8 spot

That person was/is Doris, unfortunately both he and Conan are injured at the moment.

kilns · 04-02-2020 4:41pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

MotM are utterly meaningless. Stander is not a good 8. He doesn't carry effectively, and he isn't a ballhawk.

he is a good 8 but not a top world class 8 but he is a world class 6

kilns · 04-02-2020 4:45pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

That person was/is Doris, unfortunately both he and Conan are injured at the moment.

Exactly, and Deegan should be next in line as the attacking benefits of moving Stander to 6 and Deegan to 8 outweight the benefits of POM at 6 and Stander at 8

aloooof · 04-02-2020 4:49pm

kilns wrote: »

No, you asked a question and I answered because the tangible difference will be he will offer more than POM going forward because it is not too difficult to better what POM offers going forward. Chances are he will tackle better too as he has a better tackle rate than POM in the European cup too.

Deegan is likely to offer more going forward.
POM is likely to offer more in terms of turnover threat and lineout.

But simply asserting "Deegan will offer more" doesn't make it so.

As an aside, prior to Saturday's game, POM's tackle success was 87.7%. Deegan's was 87.3%.

aloooof · 04-02-2020 4:51pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

bit of a mess. Not sure what the story was with Addison but it would have made more sense including him

On Addison:

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1224693262931431425

Former Former · 04-02-2020 4:52pm

Stander played very well at 8 last week. Then there is Conan and Doris.

So Deegan needs three injuries to be in contention. Is it really that OUTRAGEOUS that he's only on the bench?

You could look at the fact that he's on the bench at all as evidence of a new approach. Joe would have Ruddock or Jordi there.

Wasting my breath, I know.

yerrahbah · 04-02-2020 4:54pm

kilns wrote: »

Exactly, and Deegan should be next in line as the attacking benefits of moving Stander to 6 and Deegan to 8 outweight the benefits of POM at 6 and Stander at 8

Perhaps Farrell thinks Deegan will be a better impact sub than POM.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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