Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

jacothelad

Former Former wrote: »

Do you have to be like this all the time?

If you don't want a reply to stuff you have invented....don't make it up. It would seem that you don't really know who he is as you are so wrong in your assertion. To be fair most young guys are naive in defence and you had a shot in the dark to belittle him. Baloucoune is so quick he gets in the right defensive positions easily. He seems to have the strength to be effective and he's a big guy. He is far more co=ordinated than Stockdale who is often caught flat footed in defence and seems to have cement boots at times.

KevinK

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/quiz-name-every-full-irish-rugby-international-decade-423370

Got 104 before running out of time

macslash

KevinK wrote: »

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/quiz-name-every-full-irish-rugby-international-decade-423370

Got 104 before running out of time

Got 100. Left out a few from current squads

hype101

Deleted User wrote: »

The real test for Baloucoune and what will decide whether he gains international honors in the next few years is whether or not he is approached by Toulouse.

By this I assume you mean there is a risk that he may be approached to play for France?.. In which case, surely it would be shrewd to let him feel the love and include him in Ire squads sooner rather than later (ie the six nations).

Agree with all the positive points made about his game.. My only reservation would be that in a few games last year he looked a little suspect under the high ball.. Seems to have addressed it from the limited amount of time he's played this season.. Really hope we see him in green this year - One for Oz in summer for sure if he keeps it up.. Could be earlier if he has a stormer over the next few weeks.

CIARAN_BOYLE

hype101 wrote: »

By this I assume you mean there is a risk that he may be approached to play for France?.. In which case, surely it would be shrewd to let him feel the love and include him in Ire squads sooner rather than later (ie the six nations).

Agree with all the positive points made about his game.. My only reservation would be that in a few games last year he looked a little suspect under the high ball.. Seems to have addressed it from the limited amount of time he's played this season.. Really hope we see him in green this year - One for Oz in summer for sure if he keeps it up.. Could be earlier if he has a stormer over the next few weeks.

I believe he is referencing a long running joke on this forum that a player is only good enough for international honours if he has been approached by toulouse.

There was a news report about someone being approached by toulouse years ago and after that whenever there was a selection debate it kept being brought up.

Xyz has to be play toulouse doesn't approach nobodies. Xyz is better than abc, abc has never been approached by toulouse.

Then young players are being discussed and someone will day let's see if he gets approached by toulouse.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I believe he is referencing a long running joke on this forum that a player is only good enough for international honours if he has been approached by toulouse.

There was a news report about someone being approached by toulouse years ago and after that whenever there was a selection debate it kept being brought up.

Xyz has to be play toulouse doesn't approach nobodies. Xyz is better than abc, abc has never been approached by toulouse.

Then young players are being discussed and someone will day let's see if he gets approached by toulouse.

ionadnapokot

Back row tackle count

Sean Reidy leads the tackle category (124) in the Pro14 and, when added to his efforts in the Heineken Champions Cup (four matches, three starts), that figure goes up to 160 tackles in 12 matches, 10 in the run-on team.
However, in examining the leading tacklers in each of the four provinces, his tackle rate of 13.33 per game is only good enough for second place. Connors leads the way with 14.85 tackles across his seven matches, all in the Pro14, a figure that would jump to 17.33 if including the nine minutes he was afforded as a replacement against the Dragons.
Gorey native and Connacht flanker Paul Boyle has made 109 tackles in the Pro14 and 126 when factoring in three games in Europe at 11.45 tackles per match.
The 22-year-old former Irish age-grade captain, like Reidy and Connors, has been having an excellent season for his province, making steady progress from his days as a teenage number eight, playing under Mike Ruddock at Lansdowne in the All-Ireland League Division 1A.
Jack O’Donoghue enjoyed a super game in Munster’s 13-6 defeat to Leinster, maintaining the high quality of his contributions across 12 matches in all competitions. The 25-year-old, who can play right across the backrow, is Munster’s leading tackler (86) in the Pro14 and that figure increases to 115 in three starts in four Champions Cup games at a rate of 9.58.
His influence, though, permeates more than the tackle stats as he also features in the upper echelons of several other categories in the Pro14, including offloads (nine), lineout steals (three), turnovers won (seven) and carries (78).

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/1.4128333

Yeah_Right

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Back row tackle count

Sean Reidy leads the tackle category (124) in the Pro14 and, when added to his efforts in the Heineken Champions Cup (four matches, three starts), that figure goes up to 160 tackles in 12 matches, 10 in the run-on team.
However, in examining the leading tacklers in each of the four provinces, his tackle rate of 13.33 per game is only good enough for second place. Connors leads the way with 14.85 tackles across his seven matches, all in the Pro14, a figure that would jump to 17.33 if including the nine minutes he was afforded as a replacement against the Dragons.
Gorey native and Connacht flanker Paul Boyle has made 109 tackles in the Pro14 and 126 when factoring in three games in Europe at 11.45 tackles per match.
The 22-year-old former Irish age-grade captain, like Reidy and Connors, has been having an excellent season for his province, making steady progress from his days as a teenage number eight, playing under Mike Ruddock at Lansdowne in the All-Ireland League Division 1A.
Jack O’Donoghue enjoyed a super game in Munster’s 13-6 defeat to Leinster, maintaining the high quality of his contributions across 12 matches in all competitions. The 25-year-old, who can play right across the backrow, is Munster’s leading tackler (86) in the Pro14 and that figure increases to 115 in three starts in four Champions Cup games at a rate of 9.58.
His influence, though, permeates more than the tackle stats as he also features in the upper echelons of several other categories in the Pro14, including offloads (nine), lineout steals (three), turnovers won (seven) and carries (78).

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/1.4128333

So what you are saying is that Connors, Reidy, Boyle and JOD are all better players than JVDF and the stats prove. Excellent. I always thought that JVDF was over-rated here.

Buer

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So what you are saying is that Connors, Reidy, Boyle and JOD are all better players than JVDF and the stats prove. Excellent. I always thought that JVDF was over-rated here.

He's like the Irish Richie McCaw in that respect.

hahashake

Interested Observer wrote: »

Yes it is, I don't like 'buying' players for the national team at all but it's the situation we're in.

I see he has deleted his twitter. Perhaps @jameslowenz is too incriminating.:D

Interested Observer

There's a fair bit to unpack from the interpros considering we're only a few weeks from the 6N, the main thing is that all trolling aside it's very tough to make a case for any of the marquee Munster players at the moment. Maybe Stander and maybe Conway but that's about it.

Buer

Ah Stander is 100% in the team. He's playing as well in the past few months as he has done at any point. Not sure if Kilcoyne is marquee but he's in the Irish 23 undoubtedly. Kleyn has played well too and Scannell is probably the frontrunner for the 2 jersey.

I'd agree on the rest. Earls, POM and Murray are all really struggling for form. POM is simply anonymous at this point and I can't see how he's selected ahead of others. There's a very solid case for Stander, VDF and Doris/Ruddock/JOD.

We open with two easier games (I don't see Wales being the same team with Gatland gone). It's a proper opportunity to bed in some changes and have some fluency in the team by the time we face tougher assignments.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

Ah Stander is 100% in the team. He's playing as well in the past few months as he has done at any point. Not sure if Kilcoyne is marquee but he's in the Irish 23 undoubtedly. Kleyn has played well too and Scannell is probably the frontrunner for the 2 jersey.

I'd agree on the rest. Earls, POM and Murray are all really struggling for form. POM is simply anonymous at this point and I can't see how he's selected ahead of others. There's a very solid case for Stander, VDF and Doris/Ruddock/JOD.

We open with two easier games (I don't see Wales being the same team with Gatland gone). It's a proper opportunity to bed in some changes and have some fluency in the team by the time we face tougher assignments.

If Ruddock can deliver a couple of good performances over the next few weeks hed have to be in poll position for the 6 jersey. He performed during the RWC and is known as a leader which I think Ireland desperately need. POM will need to do a hell of a lot over the next 2 weeks and into the training camp to be deserving. I'd consider moving Stander to 6 if we had an 8 that we could put in, but I think its possibly a but early for Doris. If Conan were available that might change the conversation somewhat.

Interested Observer

Interested Observer wrote: »

There's a fair bit to unpack from the interpros considering we're only a few weeks from the 6N, the main thing is that all trolling aside it's very tough to make a case for any of the marquee Munster players at the moment. Maybe Stander and maybe Conway but that's about it.

Farrell needs to set his stall out early and pick only on form. Currently that has the vast majority of Munster players watching from home. As time goes by and Cooney, Sexton, Aki etc aren’t in form then bye bye. There can no longer be room for sentimentality or provincial bias by posters. That is the stark reality going forward. Hoping, praying and bluster won’t make an out of form player play well internationally.

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Farrell needs to set his stall out early and pick only on form. Currently that has the vast majority of Munster players watching from home. As time goes by and Cooney, Sexton, Aki etc aren’t in form then bye bye. There can no longer be room for sentimentality or provincial bias by posters. That is the stark reality going forward. Hoping, praying and bluster won’t make an out of form player play well internationally.

Picking only on form could see new teams every few games, form is part of it but coaches also want continuity. It’s never mattered what posters have thought to be fair only the person who picks the team.

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

If Ruddock can deliver a couple of good performances over the next few weeks hed have to be in poll position for the 6 jersey. He performed during the RWC and is known as a leader which I think Ireland desperately need. POM will need to do a hell of a lot over the next 2 weeks and into the training camp to be deserving. I'd consider moving Stander to 6 if we had an 8 that we could put in, but I think its possibly a but early for Doris. If Conan were available that might change the conversation somewhat.

PoM has been out of form for the last year, he has occasionally put in a reasonable performance. But like any player he needs to be show tough love and not selected at very least in the 23 to be shown the cold hard reality that what he is doing isn’t good enough. Likewise with CJ his play is very one dimensional and more often than not hasn’t been producing. One good performance doesn’t offset multiple games of making up the numbers, it needs to be multiple games of good performances. This is after all meant to be top level rugby we are playing.

Interested Observer

Buer wrote: »

Ah Stander is 100% in the team. He's playing as well in the past few months as he has done at any point. Not sure if Kilcoyne is marquee but he's in the Irish 23 undoubtedly. Kleyn has played well too and Scannell is probably the frontrunner for the 2 jersey.

Yes Kilcoyne will make the 23, forgot about him.

Kleyn - absolutely not thanks.

Stander though, why is he 100% in the team? When was the last time he troubled anyone decent? He's carrying a lot but it's just typical direct and easy to defend stuff. Conan being injured probably makes the selection for us but his position shouldn't be set in stone. If he starts again with POM I will despair (as far as these things go).

One thing I'm very interested to see is how much of a clean slate Farrell is going to work from. He's the new head coach but he's been part of the coaching team for a long time now. He had to have had something to do with the malaise in 2019, he had to have been involved in selection decisions, he had to have been part of the poor coaching over the year etc. I'm really looking forward/half dreading his selection for the first 6N game, if it resembles the NZ QF team then any faith I have in him will evaporate fairly quickly (I'm sure he'll be devastated at that).

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

Picking only on form could see new teams every few games, form is part of it but coaches also want continuity. It’s never mattered what posters have thought to be fair only the person who picks the team.

Absolutely and that’s why the coaching ticket get paid the big bucks to be able to decide if player A’s 90% is better than player B’s 97%. Also it needs to be an important methodology as Murray has been out of form for 13 months, Best was out of form as were POM, CJ, Sexton, Aki etc but they were all chosen because “they had produced before”. But the players who were in form internationally were overlooked and we paid the price for that.

We now have enough very good players per position to be able to chop and change a bit without suffering. Certainly giving those players at international level will pay off. I doubt we will see much of it this 6 nations but I expect for the summer tour and autumn internationals onwards we will see it.

The point about posters is about reading boards and seeing hundreds of posts from provincial supporters justifying their player A over another provinces player B. It gets very tiresome and people need to realise that their opinion doesn’t matter for squat and that it is a good conversation but that is all it is.

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Absolutely and that’s why the coaching ticket get paid the big bucks to be able to decide if player A’s 90% is better than player B’s 97%. Also it needs to be an important methodology as Murray has been out of form for 13 months, Best was out of form as were POM, CJ, Sexton, Aki etc but they were all chosen because “they had produced before”. But the players who were in form internationally were overlooked and we paid the price for that.

I would argue Best wasn't so much out of form as slowing down to age, POM and Murray were Stander wasn’t Sexton was below his level but still the best option and Aki wasn’t.

Granny15

I think people are forgetting the gameplan we used was the same one from the Grand Slam in 2018. Box kicking will never win you games for a prolonged period it simply gives the ball away too much. I don't know if Murray was told to do this or he just decided to but it didn't work and if he is selected ahead of Cooney he needs to be banned box kicking outside the 22. I believe Cooney is international at the moment and Murray isnt.

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

I would argue Best wasn't so much out of form as slowing down to age, POM and Murray were Stander wasn’t Sexton was below his level but still the best option and Aki wasn’t.

Agree on all actually. Sorry I wasn’t very clear at all. Aki’s head was gone, he was being too eager to impress and make a difference, dropping balls, shooting out of the line, hard tackles. All clear indicators his head wasn’t right for the right reasons though. In my eyes he was out of form. CJ ended up being the only viable 8 due injury and would probably have been benched for more games if others were available. Would Sexton have been in a better place if Murray wasn’t playing, we will never know.

troyzer

Zebo just retweeted someone holding a signed jersey of his. Presumably match worn.

It's an XL. He's an outside back wearing an XL and he's not exactly Nadolo.

Crazy stuff.

salmocab

troyzer wrote: »

Zebo just retweeted someone holding a signed jersey of his. Presumably match worn.

It's an XL. He's an outside back wearing an XL and he's not exactly Nadolo.

Crazy stuff.

Ah in fairness them pro jerseys are all over the place size wise.

Interested Observer

Team I'd go for against Scotland, which is 4 weeks from today madly enough. Some biased selections, if you want McCloskey ahead of Henshaw say that's fine.

Larmour
Conway
Ringrose
Henshaw
Stockdale
Byrne
Cooney
Doris
VdF
Stander
Ryan
Henderson
Furlong
Cronin/Scannell/Herring/Kelleher
Healy

Cronin/Scannell/Herring/Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Porter, Toner, Ruddock, Murray, Carbery/Carty/Burns, Addison

Granny15

Granny15 wrote: »

I think people are forgetting the gameplan we used was the same one from the Grand Slam in 2018. Box kicking will never win you games for a prolonged period it simply gives the ball away too much. I don't know if Murray was told to do this or he just decided to but it didn't work and if he is selected ahead of Cooney he needs to be banned box kicking outside the 22. I believe Cooney is international at the moment and Murray isnt.

Agree. RoG said once during punditry, not an accurate quote, that box kicking is actually kicking to retain possession. I’m not sure if he has taken too many hits to the head but at very best it’s 50/50 if you retain possession after. The best way to retain possession is not to kick it away at all. It absolutely has its uses I can’t argue against that. But we used it too often, just like we used the choke or the wrap around too often before.

What has been claimed is that we used Leinsters “comfortable in chaos” gameplan in 2018 and then reverted to the 2017 gameplan in 2019 and it shook the players. The progress we had made in 2018 was huge and Joe felt that we needed to change it up for 2019.

Granny15

Looks about right. I’d have Addison in fullback against England tho. Larmour might be targeted under high ball

Interested Observer

Interested Observer wrote: »

Team I'd go for against Scotland, which is 4 weeks from today madly enough. Some biased selections, if you want McCloskey ahead of Henshaw say that's fine.

Larmour
Conway
Ringrose
Henshaw
Stockdale
Byrne
Cooney
Doris
VdF
Stander
Ryan
Henderson
Furlong
Cronin/Scannell/Herring/Kelleher
Healy

Cronin/Scannell/Herring/Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Porter, Toner, Ruddock, Murray, Carbery/Carty/Burns, Addison

Only one I can see people having an issue with is Doris straight in at international level at the back of the scrum. I however agree with and think that would be a good 23 to start off a new era with.

Interested Observer

Granny15 wrote: »

Looks about right. I’d have Addison in fullback against England tho. Larmour might be targeted under high ball

So?

Granny15

Granny15 wrote: »

Looks about right. I’d have Addison in fullback against England tho. Larmour might be targeted under high ball

Larmour has been bombarded recently, even on very wet and windy days, and hasn’t just coped he has excelled. I’d stick with Larmour starting.

Granny15

Just think he might not be tall enough and as a horses for courses if change it up for England.