Star Trek Discovery ***Season 3*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Evade

I think it's the name most people have an issue with, same with the spore drive. It's like they too the old Star Trek stereotype of
Spock:*technobabble*
Kirk: Yes, just like over inflating a tyre.
and just decided to take Kirk's part literally.

Evade

The spore drive still has the potential to destroy the multiverse though.

~Rebel~

pixelburp wrote: »

Thing is, is "parasitic ice" more or less daft than the Space Ghost of Sub Rosa, dice roll "devolution mutations", or the myriad of Higher Beings pretending to be Greek gods? Sometimes Trek was Dr Who when it wanted to be.

The "parasitic" term might have been a bit on the sillier side but I liked the idea of it; Inescapable ice, slowly absorbing the ship. The resolution of the story was shíte, but the principle stakes and threat worked and fitted into the universe of the macabre Trek does occasionally flirt with.

Yeah, I don't mind the idea of parasitic ice at all, it's actually kinda cool imo.

Though I do have a bit of a problem with how they introduced it - in another trek show, that would be the heart of the episode;
"Oh no! We're trapped in parasitic ice! Let's science our way out of this situation together".

Whereas here, there was a bunch of other stuff with the crash, and the need to get parts, and the wild-west style story of the local backwater villagers and and the evil courier -- and then when they deal with all that it was as if the writers were like;
"oh shit, they've solved their problems and we still have 10 minutes to deal with, and we've nothing for Michael to save them from... how about the ice they've been trapped in the whole time, IS ACTUALLY PARASITIC! Bish, bash, bosh".

Baggly

I can see Data/Dax/Seven/Spock explaining its not actually parasitic ice but an organism that lives in this ice and secretes such and such compound to etc etc etc.

I guess that's my gripe.

~Rebel~

Baggly wrote: »

I can see Data/Dax/Seven explaining its not actually parasitic ice but an organism that lives in this ice and secretes such and such compiund to etc etc etc.

I guess that's my gripe.

Yeah, exactly.. instead of just;
"this ice is parasitic!", *cut to ext. Discovery - the ice grows over the hull*, and leaving it at that, it would have been an actual story. There would be time spent on the revelation, the reason, and then working towards a solution. But we got;
"We're trapped!... We're free! Yay Burham!"

I'm also a bit unimpressed with the crew prior to Burnham saving their bacon... their solution seemed to be "more powerrrr!", like a lad who's car is stuck in the mud, revving the bejesus out of the engine, with the tyres spinning all over the place as they dig themselves further and further into the mire.

Baggly

To be clear I still enjoyed it as an episode. And I'm glad they are going a new direction this season. Just don't want them to rush it. One good thing about Discovery s1 and s2 was they did go into plot lines in decent depth. Establishing the 'science' behind the spore drive, for example. And no extraneous plot elements like the ice. Living ice is a big deal... Throw a spotlight on it.

Pining for the TNG era shows though!

Baggly

An entire episode on a tar monster to kill off one character springs to mind.

Stark

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I'm also a bit unimpressed with the crew prior to Burnham saving their bacon... their solution seemed to be "more powerrrr!", like a lad who's car is stuck in the mud, revving the bejesus out of the engine, with the tyres spinning all over the place as they dig themselves further and further into the mire.

Saru: "Ensign Tilly, grab a couple of foot mats and go outside and stick them under the nacelles.
Lieutenant Black Man and Lieutenant Asian Man, you go outside and help push.
If all else fails, we'll get Commander Burnham to call round with the tractor.... beam".

~Rebel~

Stark wrote: »

Saru: "Ensign Tilly, grab a couple of foot mats and go outside and stick them under the nacelles.
Lieutenant Black Man and Lieutenant Asian Man, you go outside and help push.
If all else fails, we'll get Commander Burnham to call round with the tractor.... beam".

Genuinely properly laughed out loud at this!

TheValeyard

Baggly wrote: »

I can see Data/Dax/Seven/Spock explaining its not actually parasitic ice but an organism that lives in this ice and secretes such and such compound to etc etc etc.

I guess that's my gripe.

Would have been better if they went down the Doctor Who road like 'The Waters of Mars' where the liquid contained an intelligence in viral form.

Just a pity Discoverys crew could not save the day without Burnham.

pixelburp

I have wondered what social media thinks of Burnham. Serious feedback like, we can presume there's noise enough ranting and raving about SJW this and that; ignoring the trolls, does the consensus hate her as much as here, and if or how that might affect future decisions. We know season 4 is greenlit and maybe it's just hope, but perhaps Martin-Green is only on a 3 season contract. Wouldn't that be nice if she was killed off or written out.

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

I have wondered what social media thinks of Burnham. Serious feedback like, we can presume there's noise enough ranting and raving about SJW this and that; ignoring the trolls, does the consensus hate her as much as here, and if or how that might affect future decisions. We know season 4 is greenlit and maybe it's just hope, but perhaps Martin-Green is only on a 3 season contract. Wouldn't that be nice if she was killed off or written out.

I dont mind her as a character, she just gets far too much screen time. I'd like to develop more stories about the bridge crew.

~Rebel~

TheValeyard wrote: »

I dont mind her as a character, she just gets far too much screen time. I'd like to develop more stories about the bridge crew.

Yeah, like the actress/character isn't the entire problem... the writing and direction is. You could easily have a show with her in it that doesn't make her the centre of the entire universe, and also doesn't make her have to react to every single piece of new information like she's having an aneurism. Swear to god, if they told her the clocks were going back she'd have a conniption!
"Going back?!" *Eyes Widen* "HOW!?"

I'd love to just sit the writers down and make them binge TNG and DS9 and tell them to go do their flashy crashy new thing, but with characters that are at least vaguely like that. I still forget half of the main crews names from week to week, 2 and a bit seasons in.

I miss the days of an acting masterclass like Jeri Ryan in Voyager. That's who vulcan-raised Burnham should be like I think... restraint that cracked in small ways that told you everything.

Rawr

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yeah, like the actress/character isn't the entire problem... the writing and direction is. You could easily have a show with her in it that doesn't make her the centre of the entire universe, and also doesn't make her have to react to every single piece of new information like she's having an aneurism. Swear to god, if they told her the clocks were going back she'd have a conniption!
"Going back?!" *Eyes Widen* "HOW!?"

I'd love to just sit the writers down and make them binge TNG and DS9 and tell them to go do their flashy crashy new thing, but with characters that are at least vaguely like that. I still forget half of the main crews names from week to week, 2 and a bit seasons in.

I miss the days of an acting masterclass like Jeri Ryan in Voyager. That's who vulcan-raised Burnham should be like I think... restraint that cracked in small ways that told you everything.

I get the impression that Martin-Smith has a range, and if properly directed would probably use it. Alas I fear that that much like the writing and overall show-running of Discovery, the directing might also lack some competency. Having her eyes widen in shock with damn near everything that happens seems to possibly be due to a lack cues to the actress.

Director: Now, this scene will shock you...

Martin-Smith: Shock me....by how much?

Director: It'll....shock you....

Martin-Smith: Erm....ok....

Without detailed direction she might go with *very shocked*, and a feckless director might just go: "Meh...good enough" regardless of what the scene actually needed.

The last episode was directed by Johnathan Frakes, and we all know that Riker has had some experience directing Trek. Although Michael did do stupid stuff in the script for that episode, her performance was alright. I'm wondering if this was due to Frakes directing. He's directing some more episodes later this season and I am curious to see if there is a noticeable difference in the performance.

pah

Have posted this elsewhere, not sure if it's been addressed here. My own friends are mostly RELAX ITS A TV SHOW. I don't subscribe to that, in watching, I'm invested, I expect a certain standard of continuity and realism (within reason).

So, Burnham jumps through the wormhole and expecting to arrive at Terralisium arrives instead at another planet. In the vastness of space the wormhole kicks her out by an m class planet. Not only that but there just so happens to be this 5minute window where a lad is being chased in a ship and probably a 5 second window where she will emerge and strike his ship. Jumped 900 years and this is the exact time and place :rolleyes:

Next Discovery exits the wormhole (correct me if I'm wrong please) above an entirely different M CLASS PLANET within the vastness of space and time.

Maybe I'm over thinking it but I can't help it. I'm sure the odds of this are astronomical and I can't concentrate on what's going on because I'm thinking back to that the whole time, going HOW THE FRAK?

FFVII

FFS, you lot whinge about everything.

TheValeyard

FFVII wrote: »

FFS, you lot whinge about everything.

Baggly

FFVII wrote: »

FFS, you lot whinge about everything.

Not past trek (excepting ST:E and every odd numbered movie)

Rawr

pah wrote: »

Have posted this elsewhere, not sure if it's been addressed here. My own friends are mostly RELAX ITS A TV SHOW. I don't subscribe to that, in watching, I'm invested, I expect a certain standard of continuity and realism (within reason).

So, Burnham jumps through the wormhole and expecting to arrive at Terralisium arrives instead at another planet. In the vastness of space the wormhole kicks her out by an m class planet. Not only that but there just so happens to be this 5minute window where a lad is being chased in a ship and probably a 5 second window where she will emerge and strike his ship. Jumped 900 years and this is the exact time and place :rolleyes:

Next Discovery exits the wormhole (correct me if I'm wrong please) above an entirely different M CLASS PLANET within the vastness of space and time.

Maybe I'm over thinking it but I can't help it. I'm sure the odds of this are astronomical and I can't concentrate on what's going on because I'm thinking back to that the whole time, going HOW THE FRAK?

I would agree, the chances of randomly hitting Class M planets is astronomically low.

However, for the sake of being able to shoot regular outside sets (and frankly Iceland was a clever choice for shooting location. I've been there myself and the place actually looks alien) I can understand the practical need to have the show land on M-Class worlds as much as possible. Other Trek shows also had this knack of encountering Earth-like planets far too often.

Since Discovery has made so many annoying choices already I guess it's easier to pick at this thread too. But this has been present in other Trek shows too...but I guess they got a pass for being more entertaining.

Baggly

Voyager was one of the best shows for landing on planets (either M class or otherwise) and using sets and props well to make it feel completely alien.

The 2x eps about the Demon Class planet and the ep where they discovered the ruined planet with the Vaadwaur sleeping in it are good examples.

Production values have obviously moved on since then, but The Mandalorian has shown an excellent way of combining set based filming with that 'real world' feel. Would be a good move for Discovery too, imo.

Stark

Voyager was probably the worst offending series for "oh just happened to bump into X out here in the Delta quadrant" plot contrivances. Amelia Earhart, The Equinox, Chakotay's tribe, Torres's reprogrammed Cardassian missile, Q prison comet, the Ferengi from TNG's "The Price", The Raven, the duplicate Voyager from the Demon planet, the descendants of Earth's dinosaurs, Icheb's family, Lyndsay Ballard etc. You'd think the Delta quadrant was the size of an Earth city.

Of course, if the shows were realistic, nothing would happen, it would just be episode after episode of ship cruising through empty space.

TheValeyard

Baggly wrote: »

Voyager was one of the best shows for landing on planets (either M class or otherwise) and using sets and props well to make it feel completely alien.

The 2x eps about the Demon Class planet and the ep where they discovered the ruined planet with the Vaadwaur sleeping in it are good examples.

Production values have obviously moved on since then, but The Mandalorian has shown an excellent way of combining set based filming with that 'real world' feel. Would be a good move for Discovery too, imo.

A Star Trek show set within the non-aligned worlds could work, but not an exact copy of Mandalorian (great show btw), a trader/ merc crew caught up in some event would be an interesting perspective.

Baggly

Stark wrote: »

Voyager was probably the worst offending series for "oh just happened to bump into X out here in the Delta quadrant" plot contrivances. Amelia Earhart, The Equinox, Chakotay's tribe, Torres's reprogrammed Cardassian missile, Q prison comet, the Ferengi from TNG's "The Price", The Raven, the duplicate Voyager from the Demon planet, the descendants of Earth's dinosaurs, Icheb's family, Lyndsay Ballard etc. You'd think the Delta quadrant was the size of an Earth city.

TheValeyard wrote: »

A Star Trek show set within the non-aligned worlds could work, but not an exact copy of Mandalorian (great show btw), a trader/ merc crew caught up in some event would be an interesting perspective.

Was more talking about production value in response to Rawr's post. Madalorian uses the below to 'create' its worlds, which is a relatively new way of doing it.



Source: https://www.slashfilm.com/the-mandalorian-stagecraft-photos/#:~:text=Instead%20of%20building%20massive%20sets,immersive%20real%2Dtime%20green%20screen.

Agree with both your posts.

Goodshape

Star Trek (and the other Star Wars productions) could and should learn a lot from The Mandalorian.

pixelburp

Goodshape wrote: »

Star Trek (and the other Star Wars productions) could and should learn a lot from The Mandalorian.

Given how the minds of Hollywood executives usually work, what would be learned would be to insert marketable, cute sidekicks into future productions. I like the Mandalorian despite its own flaws, but sometimes the obvious "look at how cute baby Yoda is!!!" gets obnoxious

Baggly

pixelburp wrote: »

Given how the minds of Hollywood executives usually work, what would be learned would be to insert marketable, cute sidekicks into future productions. I like the Mandalorian despite its own flaws, but sometimes the obvious "look at how cute baby Yoda is!!!" gets obnoxious

Heartily agree. If we see more of the likes of when Georgiou talked to the wide range of eyesight alien in the turbolift ill have to get special sunglasses to stop the cringe

AMKC

Stark wrote: »

Voyager was probably the worst offending series for "oh just happened to bump into X out here in the Delta quadrant" plot contrivances. Amelia Earhart, The Equinox, Chakotay's tribe, Torres's reprogrammed Cardassian missile, Q prison comet, the Ferengi from TNG's "The Price", The Raven, the duplicate Voyager from the Demon planet, the descendants of Earth's dinosaurs, Icheb's family, Lyndsay Ballard etc. You'd think the Delta quadrant was the size of an Earth city.

Of course, if the shows were realistic, nothing would happen, it would just be episode after episode of ship cruising through empty space.

I quite liked the 37s episode and The Equinox episode and think both does were quite possible. The one with missile less so but still possible. They were after all heading towards the Alpha Quadrant and it could have been heading the opposite way but then that would not make sense because surely it would have emerged at the Caretaker array as well so it starts to make less sense unless it turned around in which case it still makes no sense as it would be much further than Voyager because it was pulled un rather Delta Quadrant first so ye that episode and the Q prison one make no sense unless the Q continuam wanted Voyager to find it and thought they could make the Q in the prison change his mind.
As for the Ferengi I thought that made sense and was an ok episode and the Raven was a good episode too and a nice way to get some history on Seven.

mikhail

Baggly wrote: »

Heartily agree. If we see more of the likes of when Georgiou talked to the wide range of eyesight alien in the turbolift ill have to get special sunglasses to stop the cringe

I kind of enjoyed that until it went nowhere. I thought she had a use for him. You know, something clever, just just randomness for the sake of ... comedy?

Stark

I think she brought him back for the ride. The whole "evil villain is pansexual AF" trope. I was kind of hoping she'd eat him.

TaurenDruid

Stark wrote: »

Voyager was probably the worst offending series for "oh just happened to bump into X out here in the Delta quadrant" plot contrivances. Amelia Earhart, The Equinox, Chakotay's tribe, Torres's reprogrammed Cardassian missile, Q prison comet, the Ferengi from TNG's "The Price", The Raven, the duplicate Voyager from the Demon planet, the descendants of Earth's dinosaurs, Icheb's family, Lyndsay Ballard etc. You'd think the Delta quadrant was the size of an Earth city.

Ireland.

The Delta Quadrant was Ireland in space.