Star Trek Discovery ***Season 3*** [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Goodshape

Bit sick of this "SJW" stuff being used as some sort of excuse for bad writing.

Pick any random episode of Trek and try telling me it's not "SJWs in space". It's bloody Star Trek for christs sake. What are you expecting??

There's plenty that's not so great about Discovery and Picard. They could make the entire cast straight, white, male, and human, have plots about climate change being a hoax and how great Trump's second term was in the early 21st century... it'd still be a poorly plotted mess with badly formed characters and no real sense of direction.

"Social justice warriors" have nothing to do with it.

pixelburp

To mangle a well known poltical turn of phrase: never ascribe to [SJW] that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

I'd love to think once the show starts we'll just be dissecting the content of the episodes - cos this bleating of SJW is getting a bit tedious. Can we just swallow it and get on with things. not like Discovery hasn't enough problems to discuss without this tortuously circular discussion about why 2020 SJW is so completely different to 1966 SJW.

Please? Can we just park this whole hoary played-out triggering for a little bit?

Inviere

^^ I've been carrying that flag since part way into Season 2. I scroll past all the social arguments about the show (as I do in most other threads)....the writing has utterly killed the show, nothing else.

pixelburp

And don't think I'm not aware of the irony of someone who played no small part in keeping that discussion alive, but honsetly for a time I thought it was a worthwhile topic to dissect on a intellectual sense. Especially given Trek's noted bedrock of inclusion in its genetic makeup.

But at this stage, I'm worn out and fed up reading it here and everywhere else dotted about Boards. It's just hot air at this stage, stinking up threads with periodic washes of SJW SJW SJW SJW SJW SJW, adding nothing except tedious repetition because "PC gone mad" takes longer to type.

I watched Contact the other day. Contact, a fantastic film from 1997 (based on Carl Sagan's famous novel) - and what amazed was how, were it released now, it'd be dogpiled into internet oblivion for being obnoxiously "SJW". But because there was no Twitter, no factionalisation of pop-culture, nobody cared about this. Or at least nobody had a platform to decry it as the worst thing ever. I miss those days.

jmcc

Goodshape wrote: »

What are you expecting??

Ideas. More often than not, there were always some ideas at the heart of the plots of each episode. There were plots. That's almost completely missing from STD.

Regards...jmcc

Rawr

jmcc wrote: »

Ideas. More often than not, there were always some ideas at the heart of the plots of each episode. There were plots. That's almost completely missing from STD.

Regards...jmcc

I'm going to be unusually fair to Discovery by countering that, the show did actually have plots, it's just that those plots were so very badly executed.

For example, the Klingon War plot was a good idea, and actually had me a bit excited at the beginning, but was executed very poorly. Beyond them mentioning that there was a war, you never got a good impression that the Federation was at the brink of destruction, and a lot of what was shown pales in comparison to the Dominion War plot-arc that followed most of DS9. There was a War-Plot in Discovery which covered Micheal redeeming herself. Unfortunately they simply didn't have the writing chops to do it right.

Season 2's plot introduced a Doctor-Who style mystery box (Red Angel) to drive the story. With competent writers that might have been something good, but unfortunately it appears that the Mystery Box was just a cover for a lack of forward planning in the writing. The end, which had the intention of tying all of the story threads neatly, turned into a bizzare rush-job plot-blender. With pre-industrial farmers flying space fighters, and Klingons turning up...because reasons.. There was a plot in Season 2, but it was panicky mess.

I have little doubt that Season 3 will have a plot. We've already got snippets of what it will look like. On the face of it, it could be a very good plot...but it is to be seen if they can actually pull it off.

pixelburp

Yes, I think on "plots" it's one aspect that needs a significant caveat in the case of Discovery. Even its harshest critics must acknowledge that Seasons 1 and 2 existed within a chaotic context, cobbled together within the reality of a rotating door of producers - with Season 1 being particularly bad on that front. I still suspect Lorca's character was a victim of those musical chairs, going from a complex PTSD sufferer to "shock" alt-universe villain because the new producers decided to junk the previous ones' work.

That's why mentally I'm going to try and watch Season 3 with the mindset of it being a new series: the issue of producers seems sorted, the concept hopefully nailed down once & for all, and the characters a bit more established than the chaos of Season 1's flucuations.

As to the question of "ideas", I do wonder how many episodes of Trek were actually about some core idea; very subjective but it'd make for an interesting tally. How often was an episode centred around or dedicated to some philosophical concept or item of topicality? Gets fuzzy with things like DS9 given its central pillar was about diplomacy, religion etc.

Without knowing I'd speculate the majority of those weighty episodes were from TNG, and overall not as prevalent as we think across the series. More often than not it was just a space adventure show with occasional space-ghost posession or "look who's pregant" episode

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

As to the question of "ideas", I do wonder how many episodes of Trek were actually about some core idea; very subjective but it'd make for an interesting tally. How often was an episode centred around or dedicated to some philosophical concept or item of topicality? Gets fuzzy with things like DS9 given its central pillar was about diplomacy, religion etc.

Without knowing I'd speculate the majority of those weighty episodes were from TNG, and overall not as prevalent as we think across the series. More often than not it was just a space adventure show with occasional space-ghost posession or "look who's pregant" episode

I guess it depends at lot on who was writing the episode. Some Trek episodes are clearly some kind of moral lesson set inside a space adventure, while others are just a generic space adventure or general challenge for our Trek people to grapple with.

There were of course some profound moments in Trek, but on reflection I think a lot of shows were just episodes that followed the formula of:

-Space Problem happens
-Try to find solution to Space Problem
-Fix Space Problem *just in time*
-Maybe some character arc...

I'm starting to wonder if this is why I'm actually enjoying Lower Decks as a Trek show. It's essentially that formula again.

With the trend to make season-long plot arcs they're setting themselves up for a bigger challenge. At the end of each Trek episode, we've have a pay-off and then the episode could be enjoyed (or not) on its own. However if you have a whole season as the story, and a pay-off is poor (like in previous seasons, and alas Picard) then the whole season kind of goes down with it. Makes it a much harder job, which needs more talent to pull it off.

jmcc

Rawr wrote: »

-Space Problem happens
-Try to find solution to Space Problem
-Fix Space Problem *just in time*
-Maybe some character arc...

The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play?

That's actually one of the main attractions of Star Trek. Or it was with previous series. The major plotlines largely simmered in the background but the core of each episode's plot was dealt with in a single episode (or sometimes two). There was no need to watch each episode to understand the state of play with the current episode. The problem is with the STD writers in that they were writing a soap opera rather than Star Trek. They wanted to write a space version of "The Sopranos" and ended up with RTE LLS stuff.

Regards...jmcc

Smegging hell

pixelburp wrote: »

I watched Contact the other day. Contact, a fantastic film from 1997 (based on Carl Sagan's famous novel) - and what amazed was how, were it released now, it'd be dogpiled into internet oblivion for being obnoxiously "SJW". But because there was no Twitter, no factionalisation of pop-culture, nobody cared about this. Or at least nobody had a platform to decry it as the worst thing ever. I miss those days.

I've no doubt that if DS9 were released today it would be pilloried on Twitter for being 'preachy' and 'too SJW' for having episodes dealing with themes like racism, colonialism, even trade unionism (Bar Association). The problems with Discovery are with the writing as has been said.

Rawr

jmcc wrote: »

The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play?

That's actually one of the main attractions of Star Trek. Or it was with previous series. The major plotlines largely simmered in the background but the core of each episode's plot was dealt with in a single episode (or sometimes two). There was no need to watch each episode to understand the state of play with the current episode. The problem is with the STD writers in that they were writing a soap opera rather than Star Trek. They wanted to write a space version of "The Sopranos" and ended up with RTE LLS stuff.

Regards...jmcc

I'd agree. Mentioning soap opera, some of Micheal's diary-style intros to episodes reminded me more of how Grey's Anatomy was presented, and that is a style which I think has infected other producers in TV-land. Which alas is also a pity, because it's a production approach designed to make an episode appear "profound" and "deep" and fairly often it just comes across as cheesy and flat.

A Space Soap Opera could actually work in Star Trek, but that would be heavily character driven which means the characters would have to be well written and developed to keep people engaged for a whole season. Thus we come back to the Achilles Heel of Discovery, the writing. They try, but they've clearly struggled to manage this.

It might be an idea for them to try and go back to episodic writing for season 3. Have an over-arcing plot about rebuilding the Federation etc.., but keep each episode enclosed with an ending. That way you can consume and reflect on each episode as a stand-alone story. If they can do something like that, they may make good Trek yet.

I guess we'll find out soon.

Goodshape

Rawr wrote: »

It might be an idea for them to try and go back to episodic writing for season 3. Have an over-arcing plot about rebuilding the Federation etc.., but keep each episode enclosed with an ending. That way you can consume and reflect on each episode as a stand-alone story. If they can do something like that, they may make good Trek yet.

I'm really expecting them to double-down in the other direction to be honest. The upcoming Pike show will be the 'traditional' episodic Star Trek. Discovery S3 will be an emotional story of overcoming adversity and reuniting the planets, told in 13 (?) parts.

That's my guess anyway. I suppose there's a chance they make episodic adventures out of discovering new (and re-discovering familiar) planets and races, but I won't hold my breath for anything too exciting in that regard.

AMKC

So does Discovery start back next week then after the last episode of "Lower Decks" this week?

Stark

AMKC wrote: »

So does Discovery start back next week then after the last episode of "Lower Decks" this week?

Yup. It's a day later than CBS on Netflix.

TheValeyard

Thank fcuk.

I need something to watch to distract from the news and negatively.

pixelburp

So I presume most chatter will kick up next Friday, bar those without Netflix enjoying it via "elsewhere".

I'll be watching it - hopefully - during the downtime between feeds and nappy changes as our first will be arriving in the next 1-2 weeks

Stark

pixelburp wrote: »

So I presume most chatter will kick up next Friday, bar those without Netflix enjoying it via "elsewhere".

I'll be watching it - hopefully - during the downtime between feeds and nappy changes as our first will be arriving in the next 1-2 weeks

Congrats!

Justin Credible Darts

Smegging hell wrote: »

I've no doubt that if DS9 were released today it would be pilloried on Twitter for being 'preachy' and 'too SJW' for having episodes dealing with themes like racism, colonialism, even trade unionism (Bar Association). The problems with Discovery are with the writing as has been said.

they would no be complaining about one single character dominating the show, like burnham does, I bet.


you left that bit out

TheValeyard

pixelburp wrote: »

So I presume most chatter will kick up next Friday, bar those without Netflix enjoying it via "elsewhere".

I'll be watching it - hopefully - during the downtime between feeds and nappy changes as our first will be arriving in the next 1-2 weeks

Congrats! Sleep like a Borg whenever you get the opportunity. As you will be dealing with a hungry Klingon!

Rawr

TheValeyard wrote: »

Congrats! Sleep like a Borg whenever you get the opportunity. As you will be dealing with a hungry Klingon!

The Borg? Klingons?!

Pfft...come on.....newborns are clearly members of the Q Continuum.

"You wish 5 minutes peace to go the bathroom? Hmmm? We simply *can't* have that" *Snaps fingers* *Screaming*

TheValeyard

Friendly reminder Discovery is back this weekend. Sneak peak scene available online now.

Justin Credible Darts

probably do what I did for the last 2 seasons, and download it, then binge watch it

flazio

You'll have to wait a couple of months so. It's released one episode a week.

Justin Credible Darts

flazio wrote: »

You'll have to wait a couple of months so. It's released one episode a week.

I know, its always a case of avoiding spoilers.
I do the same for other shows like billions, blacklist etc.




That is why I loved shows like house of cards, ozark, they would be released in one go ( the full season)

Goodshape

Slightly updated title sequence for the third season:

https://www.startrek.com/videos/star-trek-discovery-season-3-opening-title-sequence

Also nice to see without the actul titles and credits laid over it.

pixelburp

Well my first and very immediate question is... what is that robot??

Evade

Updated versions of the off brand astromechs the Enterprise had in the season two finale.

EDIT: I forgot how much I dislike the gaps in the saucer.

AMKC

Goodshape wrote: »

Slightly updated title sequence for the third season:

https://www.startrek.com/videos/star-trek-discovery-season-3-opening-title-sequence

Also nice to see without the actul titles and credits laid over it.

Thanks for letting us know that. Am going to wait till it's on to watch it so am not going to watch that and ruin it otherwise I will just skip it watching the episode.

Justin Credible Darts

there is also a new font used in the title.

Made a wallpaper with it#

https://www.deviantart.com/gazomg/art/Star-Trek-Discovery-S3-New-Logo-857971264

pixelburp

The "this season on..." preview is out there if anyone wants a better idea of what's to come; it's fairly agreed the show has had mix sentiments but it's worth stepping back and admiring how cinematic and "big budget" it looks. Doubt Star Trek ever looked so showy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Xb0l2TWeA