Is it time to lift the beef pickets?

wrangler

Yes but not yet

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There was a lot of nativity on both sides. However by far the biggest nativity was on the processor and large finisher side. Loads of so called experts have been proven wrong.
While some of Beefplans thinking was not realistic mainly there price talking of 4.5/kg. Processor and large finisher's have created a mess for themselves.

For processors a light has been shone on there businesses that will be hard to turn off. 30 month limit and predatory pricing on certain animal types mainly bulls will put pressure on them to change these tactics.

Another issue for them is VAT on there own feedlots and larger finisher's killing over 1k cattle / year. If we assume that these finisher's kill over 100k/year if the law changes it will cost them 5-7 million euros and that is at present prices when prices rise you can add another million to that.

Generic producer groups have been approved and thus will force up prices and facilitate forward pricing especially for winter and early summer cattle. And Wrangler I know according to you they existed already but these are a totally different beast to your idea of a PG. As well we may see the HR and AA PG's able to negotiate national base prices

Processors as well face the problem that Courts and the law is not an option to stop/manage these strikes/protests. Farmers will not be reluctant to go again and from now on will insist on negotiation while pickets are in place. As well contrary to some experts here chill room's only stay full for so long. I was sick of telling lads that meat can only stay in a chill room for 3-4 weeks max after that there is only a week on the supermarket shelf. As well you cannot replace 30k + of cattle with Polish it any other beef and processing space is also an issue.

The new Beef Forum will be more farmer friendly and will side more with farmers than if processor's had behaved after the first part of the protest. The Government will not want a rehash of this during an election next year and the sword of VAT and maybe labour rules may be held over the processor's.

While no side can claim an outright victory the farmers have changed the rules of the game.

Our group is going well now due mainly to the ability of our suppliers to supply the majority of the lambs inspec , What future have beef producer groups when they even whinge about becoming QA......... becoming QA is not an onerous ask compared with the effort to be a proper producer group

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Our group is going well now due mainly to the ability of our suppliers to supply the majority of the lambs inspec , What future have beef producer groups when they even whinge about becoming QA......... becoming QA is not an onerous ask compared with the effort to be a proper producer group

Where the issue arose with QA was that over the last five years the grading got harder. This drove a lot of cattle outside QA spec and cattle were penalised as well. Processor wanted lighter carcasses but then the grading of these cattle penalised them. A bullock or heifer that graded O=/O+ at 400+DW was not a P or O- at 330DW. It was immaterial to processor's what the grade was as they were putting them on trays for the retailer's.

As well as that Cows and Bulls that there was no bonus for were penalised as well if not QA and that was if they would slaughter them. Less than 20% of cattle slaughtered qualified for QA.

Panch18

Yes but not yet

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Where the issue arose with QA was that over the last five years the grading got harder. This drove a lot of cattle outside QA spec and cattle were penalised as well. Processor wanted lighter carcasses but then the grading of these cattle penalised them. A bullock or heifer that graded O=/O+ at 400+DW was not a P or O- at 330DW. It was immaterial to processor's what the grade was as they were putting them on trays for the retailer's.

As well as that Cows and Bulls that there was no bonus for were penalised as well if not QA and that was if they would slaughter them. Less than 20% of cattle slaughtered qualified for QA.

Where does the less than 20% figure come from out of interest?

kk.man

Yes but not yet

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There was a lot of nativity on both sides. However by far the biggest nativity was on the processor and large finisher side. Loads of so called experts have been proven wrong.
While some of Beefplans thinking was not realistic mainly there price talking of 4.5/kg. Processor and large finisher's have created a mess for themselves.

For processors a light has been shone on there businesses that will be hard to turn off. 30 month limit and predatory pricing on certain animal types mainly bulls will put pressure on them to change these tactics.

Another issue for them is VAT on there own feedlots and larger finisher's killing over 1k cattle / year. If we assume that these finisher's kill over 100k/year if the law changes it will cost them 5-7 million euros and that is at present prices when prices rise you can add another million to that.

Generic producer groups have been approved and thus will force up prices and facilitate forward pricing especially for winter and early summer cattle. And Wrangler I know according to you they existed already but these are a totally different beast to your idea of a PG. As well we may see the HR and AA PG's able to negotiate national base prices

Processors as well face the problem that Courts and the law is not an option to stop/manage these strikes/protests. Farmers will not be reluctant to go again and from now on will insist on negotiation while pickets are in place. As well contrary to some experts here chill room's only stay full for so long. I was sick of telling lads that meat can only stay in a chill room for 3-4 weeks max after that there is only a week on the supermarket shelf. As well you cannot replace 30k + of cattle with Polish it any other beef and processing space is also an issue.

The new Beef Forum will be more farmer friendly and will side more with farmers than if processor's had behaved after the first part of the protest. The Government will not want a rehash of this during an election next year and the sword of VAT and maybe labour rules may be held over the processor's.

While no side can claim an outright victory the farmers have changed the rules of the game.

Great post.

I said it before had Mll threw a few crumbs to the farmer at the beginning instead of the 'Ulster Unionist' no ...to everything they might have got away with a few days protest. The missed judged the farmer anger. One procurement manager said to me the IFA only stayed a few days and we got an agreement. I was quick to tell them you tried to walk on the IFAs grave by withdrawing their subs when they were down.

I do agree that this strike is a watershed moment by turning a light on. This new beef advisory group better not be a beef forum mark two or else these guys will be back on the gates.

K.G.

I can't figure out why lads are so anxious to stay in the beef game.factories screwing them, bord bia screwing them,politicians screwing them,media screwing them,climate change screwing them,supermarkets screwing them,revenue screwing them,other farmers screwing them.and the other s##t that goes wrong in farming as well.why would you bother

kk.man

Yes but not yet

Looks like Liffey has broke from the crowd...the Mll must be ragging. I have never saw a divide like that before.

Water John

What would you suggest? This is the farming most of them know and there aren't many other options out there, especially for poorer land.
Below cost is just, not on. The milk processors are now looking at the same trick. Even though market improved their still dropping the price.
The other problem is, even if the suckler herd is dramatically downsized, which looks likely, a lot of the calves coming off the dairy herd are not suitable for beef, despite Teagasc nonsense.
If the calves from the dairy herd were suitable, it would be a fix.

KK Man, that was my original game plan and hope, that one or two players would agree. They did float €3.75 but were quickly shot down. The offal issue must be first item on the agenda.

PhilOssophy

After all the protest, did the beef farmers get anything? I stopped following a while back?

coolshannagh28

Yes but not yet

kk.man wrote: »

Looks like Liffey has broke from the crowd...the Mll must be ragging. I have never saw a divide like that before.

This will have been the greatest achievement , divide them and create genuine competition .

Water John

Yes, stopped the race down to €3.20.
No organisation who claim to represent farmers will sign off on a deal without genuine farmer consultation.
A light has been shone on this industry and the stranglehold one person has on it, facilitated by Govn't.

Panch18

Yes but not yet

PhilOssophy wrote: »

After all the protest, did the beef farmers get anything? I stopped following a while back?

No - they got nothing

longgonesilver

PhilOssophy wrote: »

After all the protest, did the beef farmers get anything? I stopped following a while back?

Small financial gain, maybe.

Plenty of promises. Some might work out.

Biggest gain is in public opinion, the issues are now public, support from a lot of people outside agriculture.

An example here from last Fridays Irish Examiner.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/arguments-against-beef-not-fleshed-out-951837.html

whelan2

Aibp on 3 45 and 3.55

Anto_Meath

Yes but not yet

Ah they did get a bit of an increase with the QA bonus and there is an agreement there that could help improve the position over all. I think they have probably highlight the corruptness of the industry, now it could be a few years away but this will cause MII to think before the try to hammer the farmers again. They have a nice little arrangement with the VAT rebate going that they wouldn't want too much focus on so I thinking they will be keeping prices around €3.50 and above.

wrangler

Yes but not yet

whelan2 wrote: »

Aibp on 3 45 and 3.55

I was thinking the main three won't move.
Are they killing yet

greysides

The pickets are lifted, the question in the thread title is answered, but the discussion continues here.