Applegreen own brand chargers

talla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120717460#Comment_120717460

No any brand, I've a Tesla MY and I'm on the previous drive highway prices - 47c Ecars, 35c Ionity.

Will be on that price to March next year and then will discontinue the plan as new prices aren't worth it.

People who signed up before Dec 22 were on even cheaper unit rates.

zg3409

Saw this on Facebook, if you are gb/ni you cannot see ROI chargers and presumably vice versa. If you email them they can configure your account to see both.

Red Silurian

Applegreen 75c/kWh + €30 pre-auth

Circle K - 69c/kWh + €20 pre-auth

The irony in Circle K being cheaper than Applegreen for car charging after years of the opposite being true for petrol and diesel is not lost on me

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721491#Comment_120721491

Both of those are in stark comparison to Tesla at 39-43c/kWh and no pre-auth. I wonder what's driving the price difference, presumably they're all buying on the same market. Did Tesla get lucky with their hedging strategy or are AG/CK just using eCars pricing as a baseline?

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721582#Comment_120721582

I think there are a number of factors.

Tesla is buying at High Voltage prices or whatever the correct terminology is. When you build your own substation prices are much lower than when you install 1-2 chargers. Similar for Ionity. Bigger initial investment but long term much cheaper to run.

Tesla's chargers cost a fraction of others with similar spec or lower. The ABBs AG got are fairly old models but I won't be surprised they paid big money.

The chargers are managed by a third party and most likely they got screwed up there too. When I was looking at tender documentation for our block of apartments, the service charge was 10% of the value of the energy transitioned. A bump in electricity price meant a bump in overheads which meant a bigger bump for end user.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721582#Comment_120721582

I think you have to look at the differential between Supercharger pricing and Non-Tesla Supercharger pricing to help answer the question. The sites in France are charging 39c/kWh vs 52c/kWh. The 52c/kWh is not a million miles away from the 64.7c/kWh eCars charge and is likely due to them signing their forward purchase agreement at a bad time.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721893#Comment_120721893

Yeah essentially a Tesla owner is paying €40k for a charging discount and priority at some charging hubs*

*Yes I'm aware they also get an excellent car and a whole rake of high tech services. My point is more that Tesla owners are effectively paying a large upfront cost to support the network and get a discount as a result

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721893#Comment_120721893

To be fair is more like 68c at ESB as the SuC would qualify as HPC.

Also this guy says the non Tesla pricing in FR dropped to 43-47c which kinda widens the gap to something around 50%

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721582#Comment_120721582

Ecars will probably argue that they hedge further ahead than Tesla do so their prices are higher and more stable as a result but they won't, or can't, prove it

More likely private interests and profit keeping prices high at the moment

Fingleberries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725089#Comment_120725089

SuC pricing in Ireland is now 39c/kWh (off peak) and 43c (peak), which is crazy good value compared to eCars, Applegreen and CircleK (or if you were charging at home on day-rate, for some reason). We only need more of them on the Island 🙂

Not to derail this thread too much, as it is specifically for Applegreen - I like the layout of the AG chargers. The cable is long enough to reach pretty much any combination of charge port location on your vehicle - but that thing is heavy!

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738242#Comment_120738242

The cable is long enough to reach pretty much any combination of charge port location on your vehicle

Pretty much this.

Any car in any space and you are 100% guaranteed a charge. Can't say the same for eCars and their 'Kilcullen' style layout... as if a Leaf parks in one or the other bay servicing the 150kW unit, it means a lot of cars won't be able to use the CCS plug on that unit depending on what side their port is

Miscreant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738242#Comment_120738242

Being new to this whole public charger thing, I tried an Applegreen charger locally over the weekend to see what it was like and I have to agree. The cable is very heavy but plenty long to reach just about any location of charge port. The whole experience was quick and easy and you can pay with a debit card (it puts an automatic €30 hold on your account though). Not sure why you would want to use their app as it seems to do the same thing as just rocking up and using your debit card anyway but of course, it will tell you if there are available chargers at the location before you get there.

Prices for charging are pretty high at the moment though and to me, using a fast charger on the road is an emergency thing. At 75c/KWh you really just need to get enough to make it home/end destination.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738242#Comment_120738242

Tbh I'm not sure it's fair to compare the Tesla owners SuC price, since you're effectively paying €40k upfront as an entry fee and Tesla are probably taking a hit on the profits as a result

The non Tesla price is probably more representative of the actual cost of the network, including electricity, maintenance and expansion, plus some profit for Tesla

That usually seems to be 15-20c above the owners price in other countries, so applying the same logic would give between 54c and 63c per kWh

Still better than AG but the gap has narrowed

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738380#Comment_120738380

Not sure why you would want to use their app as it seems to do the same thing as just rocking up and using your debit card

Using their app avoids the €30 block on your card, which I believe takes a few days to be released, so if you use these chargers daily or even multiple times a day, thats a lot of €30 blocks being held on your card...

innrain

If things work perfectly you don't need the app. However, I had 5 attempts to start a charging session at AG which would have resulted in 5 consecutive 30 quid blocks which I think is bad. I've seen comments that Paulstown didn't work on the weekend after was offline on the BH weekend and based on my experience at Coyne Cross with 25kW charging and some other experiences, I can't trust the network yet even though their layout is better than most.

Fingleberries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738525#Comment_120738525

In fairness, it's not necessarily paying €40k upfront as an entry fee, but I can understand where you're coming from with that. I thought that Tesla had said that previously $1,500 from the price of each car would be ringfenced for support and expansion of the Supercharger network. I can't find the source for that at the moment, so it's entirely possible that I imagined that figure but am fairly sure of it -- possibly doubting myself now 🙂.

If true, this would equate to a non-Tesla owner paying the monthly subscription fee to access the SuC network for about 10 years.

If a non-Tesla user was going to use a Supercharger more than twice in a month (like on a European road trip, or for more than 70-odd kWh), then subscribing for the month gets them access to the lower price and financially makes more sense. It is also easy to cancel the sub before the end of the month, unlike some other subs that require 12-months. So, I think including the non-Tesla owner price was fair enough.

That being said, it doesn't matter for trips in Ireland as the Supercharger network is not open for non-Teslas. Yet.

Applegreen, Circle K, even EasyGo and eCars don't have a subscription model (or at least one that significantly reduces the per kWh price for membership).

MarcusP12

Do you need a minimum balance to use if u sign up through the app in the same way easygo and e-cars does? Or is it a case u register, give ur card details and it just takes what you use each time if started through the app? I’ve signed up already to e-cars and easygo so wouldn’t want another min balance account if there’s the option to pay with debit card….

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120738525#Comment_120738525

you're effectively paying €40k upfront as an entry fee

You're paying minimum 40k upfront for a tesla and 30k-35k upfront for the lowest price of most other car brands. So really the entry fee is only 5-10k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739517#Comment_120739517

I believe the payment is taken from the card details stored on the app after the charge is finished (by the app) so no pre-auth or topping up needed, a good system by all accounts

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120739891#Comment_120739891

Yeah fair point, but the idea remains that Tesla uses car sales to fund network expansion and can charge Tesla owners less as a result

Ionity in theory works in a similar way and has probably been able to maintain their prices for a long time because they're owned by several car manufacturers (meanwhile everyone else has increased prices)

Applegreen don't sell high price items like cars, so while they're hardly poor they're probably not as awash with cash as bigger companies.

So that's why I don't think it's exactly fair to compare the prices AG charge to Tesla

Now having said that, AG are charging a hefty fee and I believe that's probably going to continue until some competing networks come online. Unless Tesla open up or Ecars suddenly figure out how to design a charging hub, the only realistic competition in the near future is probably going to be Ionity and Circle K. And both of them are a good distance behind in terms of rollout

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741123#Comment_120741123

Fair point, the thing about Ionity is they were always ridiculously expensive so that probably allowed them to keep the same base pricing structure all this time, I'm also led to believe that their charging plans for their own car owners hasn't changed much or at all, so it's much the same structure as Tesla in that regard

You look across our electricity network there is no electricity provider, house or car, who have dropped their prices despite wholesale prices dropping like a stone for the last number of months except Tesla. Now you can argue it's all about hedging etc but I have seen zero proof of such. In fact considering most suppliers had 3 rate increases last year we are long over-due a drop if this hedging excuse is to be believed

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743127#Comment_120743127

Agree re Ionity crazy prices initially.

On the hedging part, it is also true to an extent, but, similar to fuel (petrol/derv) its quick to go up and slow to come down!

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120747748#Comment_120747748

Ionity crazy prices is their business model, they want you buying a car from them and/or subscribing for a monthly fee to get a cheaper unit rate. Crazy price is only for those that are willing to pay it

I have seen zero proof of hedging, and I'd imagine it wouldn't be difficult to prove

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751914#Comment_120751914

Maybe it's everyone else who was crazy, Ionity are the only provider who haven't raised prices

donkey balls

Quick question and probably a stupid one me and a mate of mine have both giving up or ICE quattro, For Electric ones over the last 2 weeks .

He drove the car from Galway back to Dublin and it had about 50km left in range, He charged it at a garage and it cost him €20.

Lad in work also has electric NERO and he was down in the country and the charge cost him €40 odd euro, Would it be down to the charger type? Ie fast one slow one.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120753231#Comment_120753231

Different types of chargers do cost different amounts of money, generally speak the faster the charger the more expensive

The simpler explanation is they probably went with different charging providers. For example Tesla charge something like 35c/kWh whereas Ionity charge 73c/kWh and Applegreen charge 75c/kWh

So same amount of electricity costs different amounts of money

Also, there could be the simple reason that one of them drove a lot further or had a less efficient car. And Ioniq38 is more aerodynamic than a Niro for example so would consume less electricity for the same journey

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120753231#Comment_120753231

Simple economics - it be simply down to the amount they refueled by or how much they were charged per unit.

If I fill 10L of dino juice at a cost of €1.50/L I'll spend €15, if you fill 20L at a cost of €1.60 it will cost you €32

Charging an electric car is the same, it's not a fixed amount per charge

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120753231#Comment_120753231

Clever people charge at home cheaply, and arrive home nearly empty so they can fill up cheaply. Most avoid public charging so while one may have filled back up to 100% the other may have only topped up just enough to make it home with 10% to spare.

donkey balls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120754993#Comment_120754993

Ah my mate is waiting on the home charger to be installed same as my self at the moment I'm using the company chargers.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756006#Comment_120756006

Once you get set up with a home charger you’re home free.. All you need then is small top ups when out on the road if needed to get you home…

Red Silurian

Applegreen Leemybrien, near Dungarvan waterford 2 X CCS 180kW chargers went live the other day, 75c/kWh

Nearly every second EV I see in Dungarvan and nearby clonea is a leaf so clearly not enough market research done in the area by AG... Wouldn't surprise me if they say in a years time that the site is "underused"