Is Ireland too insular?

The independence of Ireland generated a social and cultural shift which may be unparalleled outside of Czarist and USSR Russia. Irish republicanism went from being a fringe movement, during the years of constitutional nationalism, to becoming ingrained in the people's outlook.

But did it go too far?

I didn't start this thread in Current Affairs because I think this goes beyond politics. I believe that we, as Irish people, have a tendency towards placing ourselves at the centre of everything.

I have noticed that in any discussion -- say, of world cuisine, the Irish will inevitably swoop on it by extolling the virtues of blaa, or coddle, or their ma's apple tart.

Discussion of Brexit, North Korea or global warming always descend to small questions like "what does this mean for Ireland?" The Irish news media is fairly unique, to my knowledge, in framing every international news story in terms of an Irish significance (what does Global Warming mean for farmers in North Tipp?)

Irish people often seem to have a magnetic draw to one another when abroad. That's nice, but then you are inevitably drawn into a long and detailed conversation into 'how things are at home'.

The world does not revolve around this small island in the North Atlantic.

I love my country, and I love its language and its history. I'm not some Irish-hating wannabe west-brit. But we can be too introspective, too insular. Why?

Lil Sally Anne Jnr.

Mostly to do with geography and population size I'd say. Many countries have provinces bigger than our entire country. We are used to living in a little world and we see everything else through that prism too.

Edgware

Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »

Mostly to do with geography and population size I'd say. Many countries have provinces bigger than our entire country. We are used to living in a little world and we see everything else through that prism too.

Not forgetting that "the crowd up in Dublin" are out to rip off "Rural Ireland"

sabat

Insular literally means pertaining to an island.

Black Swan

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I believe that we, as Irish people, have a tendency towards placing ourselves at the centre of everything.

Then again...
How the Irish Saved Civilization (1995). Book by Thomas Cahill.

sabat

sabat wrote: »

Insular literally means pertaining to an island.

That's not the common usage of the word, and I suspect you know that.

Here, it means inward-facing, or refers to a state of being uninterested in global matters. For a country that has given more than its fair contribution to the world, we display a serious lack of interest in the outside world.

completedit

I actually,y agree with you. Also, America’s position as a dominant player in culture and the Irish diaspora there makes us believe we are more important and relevant than we are.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That's not the common usage of the word, and I suspect you know that.

It means inward-facing, or uninterested in global matters. For a country that has given more than its fair contribution to the world, we display a serious lack of interest in the outside world.

Has Brexit & American politics not featured prominently in the media? Concept of imports? Holidays abroad? I'm rather unconvinced by your angle.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has Brexit & American politics not featured prominently on the news? Concept of imports? Holidays abroad? I'm rather unconvinced by your angle.

Brexit and US politics have featured heavily in our discussions, say on broadcast media.

But they are always centered around their Irish significance.

Keith Byrne (Irishman detained by US Federal Authorities) is a classic example of this when you consider the thousands of non-Irish kids being processed in actual cages, which is treated with relative indifference.

In terms of Brexit, our fixation with the border is entirely deserved. We must remain vigilant against republican terrorism. Nevertheless, there has been almost no discussion/debate here about the future of the European Project and integration. Nobody is talking about what happens after Brexit in terms of European integration, whether positive or negative. We are self-obsessed.

Black Swan

Does across-the-pond count? 32.3 million people living in the USA claim Irish heritage, according to the US Census Bureau (compared to 4.8 million population of Ireland). We get around.

Black Swan

Black Swan wrote: »

Does across-the-pond count? 32.3 million people living in the USA claim Irish heritage, according to the US Census Bureau (compared to 4.8 million population of Ireland). We get around.

Not really, because their heritage doesn't seem to be a significant factor in their political outlook, compared to recent immigrants. Compared to ourselves, who seem determined to make ourselves relevant, they're actually not relevant.

Leg End Reject

We are more probably insular as a result of our geographical location, and the fact that the population was mostly native Irish, immigration is a recent phenomenon.

We have oppression in our recent history and the Irish state is still really in its infancy. We were brow beaten by the Catholic Church, the move to a more secular society is more recent development.

The country now is unrecognisable from the one of my childhood and I'm not that old. If you had told me as a child that divorce, same sex marriage and abortion would be a reality I wouldn't have believed it.

So yes, certain demographics are probably still insular, but the country is rapidly becoming more progressive and outward looking. A full shift is probably a generation or two away, and then people will mourn the loss of identity.


And yes, I have been drinking.

sdanseo

Insular in our thoughts - no, I don't think so. We are as a populace well educated on global affairs when you compare to the likes of the UK and US.

Insular in our ways - absolutely.
A mundane example. I work in logistics. I deal with the continent while other departments deal with the UK and more others Ireland.
I will regularly get emails or phone calls asking for a cost to ship freight measured in feet and inches.

The Europeans would laugh me off the face of the earth if I didn't convert before sending the request.

It all boils down to our hardiness. "Ah it'll be grand".
Great on the one hand. We are more impervious to offence and being aggrieved which makes conflict less likely.
Abysmal from the point of view that we are seen from the outside as set in our ways, backwards and even irrelevant.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The independence of Ireland generated a social and cultural shift which may be unparalleled outside of Czarist and USSR Russia. Irish republicanism went from being a fringe movement, during the years of constitutional nationalism, to becoming ingrained in the people's outlook.

But did it go too far?

I didn't start this thread in Current Affairs because I think this goes beyond politics. I believe that we, as Irish people, have a tendency towards placing ourselves at the centre of everything.

I have noticed that in any discussion -- say, of world cuisine, the Irish will inevitably swoop on it by extolling the virtues of blaa, or coddle, or their ma's apple tart.

Discussion of Brexit, North Korea or global warming always descend to small questions like "what does this mean for Ireland?" The Irish news media is fairly unique, to my knowledge, in framing every international news story in terms of an Irish significance (what does Global Warming mean for farmers in North Tipp?)

Irish people often seem to have a magnetic draw to one another when abroad. That's nice, but then you are inevitably drawn into a long and detailed conversation into 'how things are at home'.

The world does not revolve around this small island in the North Atlantic.

I love my country, and I love its language and its history. I'm not some Irish-hating wannabe west-brit. But we can be too introspective, too insular. Why?

There are over 200 countries in the world. I’m sure most have their own media organisations. How much “knowledge” do you have of them all?

GG66

I don't think we're more insular than any other nationality. In many ways we're more open.

Any country I've been to their media focuses predominantly on national affairs and how international affairs affect them.

Nationalities often stick together when abroad.

Irish people are generally well travelled and educated and have a reasonably open world view

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

There are over 200 countries in the world. I’m sure most have their own media organisations. How much “knowledge” do you have of them all?

A very weak knowlege. But I did qualify that by saying "to my knowledge"

I'm just saying, like. Even the fact that I and many others read the BBC every morning implies that it provides an outlook we can't derive from Irish media.

I also (dons pretentious mantle) listen to French radio. Neither they nor the BBC dwell on national interests -- in other countries, global news means exactly that.

We just don't have those kinds of big-picture discussions here. That's all, and that's the point.

Vic_08

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A very weak knowlege. But I did qualify that by saying "to my knowledge"

I'm just saying, like. Even the fact that I and many others read the BBC every morning implies that it provides an outlook we can't derive from Irish media.

I also (dons pretentious mantle) listen to French radio. Neither they nor the BBC dwell on national interests -- in other countries, global news means exactly that.

We just don't have those kinds of big-picture discussions here. That's all, and that's the point.

Nope. You are dead wrong on this, we hove our faults but being unusually insular isn't one of them. The pathological need for foreigners to think we're a great bunch of lads on the other hand...

Of course people are interested in how world events will effect them and their locality, you'd have to be stupid not to be concerned about the damage international dumb sh!t like Brexit has on your own life.

Brits and Americans are on average far more ignorant of the world outside their own countries than a typical Irish person, Americans in particular.

You say you look at foreign news regularly, I would say a large % of Irish residents do so as well. A huge % of Americans will have never seen any news from anything other than a US perspective, nor have left their country, nor have even considered that there is a perspective that is not American-centric.

The very fact that many consider only other people to have accents says a lot about how insular they are as a nation, no Irish person would think that way.

Black Swan

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not really, because their heritage doesn't seem to be a significant factor in their political outlook, compared to recent immigrants. Compared to ourselves, who seem determined to make ourselves relevant, they're actually not relevant.

Our discussions have been all anecdotal. If you are focused on gathering reasons why Ireland is not relevant, I suppose you may find some. In like manner, if you seek reasons that challenge this irrelevancy, you may find them too. For example: Symbolically the Irish may be relevant across the pond, given that millions of US citizens celebrate a national holiday every year: St Patrick's Day. "$4.44 billion: The amount Americans are expected to collectively spend on St. Patrick's Day in 2016, according to NRF."

Tourism another example:

The United States is our second largest source market, after Great Britain in terms of visitor numbers. US visitors tend to stay longer and tour more extensively around the island than some other visitors. They deliver significant business for ‘high-end’ tourism suppliers and support a wide range of tourism sectors.

US Military and Shannon Airport 1st quarter 2019:

A total of 24,521 US military personnel transited the airport between January 1 and March 22, 2019

US Investment in Ireland Compared to other Larger Nations:

Ireland has benefited from $277bn (£182bn) of US direct foreign investment in the past two decades – gaining more from American firms than Brazil, Russia, India and China combined.

interactive

Was the OP paid for by the EU?
Abandon your Irishness and become a EU citizen

JupiterKid

Well, as an island nation we are bound to be insular to a certain extent, but...

...I really think us Irish are very well travelled and well educated and informed of global and international events, especially those of us under the age of 50 or thereabouts.

Of course, in the early years of the State under the yoke of deValera led economic isolationism, the vice grip of the Catholic Church, economic stagnation, poor educational attainment and censorship and lack of opportunities at home, Ireland prior to the 1990s and certainly the 1970s was extremely insular, but we have utterly transformed as a society in just a few decades and are now a very open and outward looking nation now.

I sort of find it amazing that my life and that of de Valera overlapped by a few months...

I can think of many more developed nations around the world that are far more insular in their mindset.

interactive

JupiterKid wrote: »

Well, as an island nation we are bound to be insular to a certain extent, but...

...I really think us Irish are very well travelled and well educated and informed of global and international events, especially those of us under the age of 50 or thereabouts.

Of course, in the early years of the State under the yoke of deValera led economic isolationism, the vice grip of the Catholic Church, economic stagnation, poor educational attainment and censorship and lack of opportunities at home, Ireland prior to the 1990s and certainly the 1970s was extremely insular, but we have utterly transformed as a society in just a few decades and are now a very open and outward looking nation now.

I sort of find it amazing that my life and that of de Valera overlapped by a few months...

I can think of many more developed nations around the world that are far more insular in their mindset.

More self loathing BS, do you really believe what you posted or are you getting paid?

Sorry about that

I don’t think that we are insular in our outlook at all. Most people I know are interested in many international current affairs, Trump, US gun laws, Syria, Palestine, and obviously Brexit. Nobody has ever mentioned the Irishman who is facing deportation/imprisonment to me, but everyone I know was horrified about the situation at the US border where children and parents were separated.

We have embraced multiculturalism, our students travel the world every summer, and take up employment abroad. We are shaking off the church’s involvement in education and social services. Some of us want our language to become extinct, and consider its preservation a waste of money. I think that we could do with a bit more insular thinking to save and celebrate what makes us unique, instead of always being culturally sensitive to all other nationalities first, as we wave day-day to our own rich culture.

Graces7

Sorry about that wrote: »

I don’t think that we are insular in our outlook at all. Most people I know are interested in many international current affairs, Trump, US gun laws, Syria, Palestine, and obviously Brexit. Nobody has ever mentioned the Irishman who is facing deportation/imprisonment to me, but everyone I know was horrified about the situation at the US border where children and parents were separated.

We have embraced multiculturalism, our students travel the world every summer, and take up employment abroad. We are shaking off the church’s involvement in education and social services. Some of us want our language to become extinct, and consider its preservation a waste of money. I think that we could do with a bit more insular thinking to save and celebrate what makes us unique, instead of always being culturally sensitive to all other nationalities first, as we wave day-day to our own rich culture.

Interested in and aware of does not exclude insularism; in fact it increases it.
Seeing the world and not deeply entrenched in it. spectator not participant.

Maybe as an incomer of nearly 29 years residence in Ireland I see it differently though. But insular to a degree, Ireland is. That is part of the charm for visitors etc. Quaint small country. By its very nature and situation, deeply isolated and self contained. A refuge from the bigger world. Which is what may save Ireland from extinction

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A very weak knowlege. But I did qualify that by saying "to my knowledge"

I'm just saying, like. Even the fact that I and many others read the BBC every morning implies that it provides an outlook we can't derive from Irish media.

I also (dons pretentious mantle) listen to French radio. Neither they nor the BBC dwell on national interests -- in other countries, global news means exactly that.

We just don't have those kinds of big-picture discussions here. That's all, and that's the point.

So you admittedly know the square root of fuck all about how we compare in terms of insularity of media reporting when compared with the majority of the countries of the world? And having lived in the UK for a time, I’m perplexed by your claim that the UK media doesn’t dwell on national interests. They very much do. The most obvious example is the forelock-tugging towards the Royal Family which all the main outlets overdo. But it’s not just the Royals. National matters are picked apart just like in Ireland. And Irish people watch the UK news because we get the channels and the times of the main news of Channel 4 and BBC differ from the Irish times.

And “To my knowledge” is, IMO, a pretty strong phrase, actually. It implies, well, decent knowledge. Afterwards claiming that that knowledge is “weak” doesn’t get you off the hook.

And if I’m honest, I find your OP more navel-gazing than the media you criticise. Q: “Why are we so different?”. A: “We’re probably not.”.

Subcomandante Marcos

Ireland, relative to it's population, is one of the least insular places on the planet.

Has the OP ever travelled?

This is a ridiculous thread.

I'm Irish and I've lived and worked in umpteen countries across 5 continents, and Ireland is the last place of all of them I'd ever call insular.

Using the fact that board discussions get hijacked by a handful of cretins as a reason to say Ireland is insular?


FFS.

If by "insular" anglocentric is actually meant then I agree totally - even if with EU membership more Irish people are rediscovering that world beyond Mother England.

In many fundamental ways the Irish lack an Irishcentric insularity. An awareness of, and respect for, our own Irish tradition is noticeably absent because so many people still want an Ireland which is culturally and intellectually English with a bit of face-saving green paint on it. These same people - 'Sasanaigh nua darb ainm Éireannaigh' in the poet's famous words - will be the first to sneer, without irony, at the "Oirishness" of "Plastic Paddys" in America.

A mere parliament in Dublin isn't worth a damn if the people in it just ape English ideas and legislation, as they've been doing with a good 90% of legislation since 1922. The irony that EU legislation is actually giving us far more intellectual independence from Englishness than anything proposed by the entirety of our (profoundly anglocentric) media or by the vast majority of Oireachtas members (who take many of their proposals from what's in the media) has not sunk in for most Irish people.

JohnnyFlash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If by "insular" anglocentric is actually meant then I agree totally - even if with EU membership more Irish people are rediscovering that world beyond Mother England.

In many fundamental ways the Irish lack an Irishcentric insularity. An awareness of, and respect for, our own Irish tradition is noticeably absent because so many people still want an Ireland which is culturally and intellectually English with a bit of face-saving green paint on it. These same people - 'Sasanaigh nua darb ainm Éireannaigh' in the poet's famous words - will be the first to sneer, without irony, at the "Oirishness" of "Plastic Paddys" in America.

A mere parliament in Dublin isn't worth a damn if the people in it just ape English ideas and legislation, as they've been doing with a good 90% of legislation since 1922. The irony that EU legislation is actually giving us far more imtellectual independence from Englishness than anything proposed by the entirety of our (profoundly anglocentric) media or by the vast majority of Oireachtas members has not sunk in for most Irish people.

Fire out a few examples of Irish ideas and legislation there that you might see going through the Oireachtas. Ones that aren’t ‘profoundly anglocentric’. I’m genuinely interested in this idea of yours.

Graces7

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Ireland, relative to it's population, is one of the least insular places on the planet.

Has the OP ever travelled?

This is a ridiculous thread.

I'm Irish and I've lived and worked in umpteen countries across 5 continents, and Ireland is the last place of all of them I'd ever call insular.

Using the fact that board discussions get hijacked by a handful of cretins as a reason to say Ireland is insular?


FFS.

This post comes across as the most insular in the thread.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

This post comes across as the most insular in the thread.

You literally live on an island of the Irish coast..

Mad_maxx

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The independence of Ireland generated a social and cultural shift which may be unparalleled outside of Czarist and USSR Russia. Irish republicanism went from being a fringe movement, during the years of constitutional nationalism, to becoming ingrained in the people's outlook.

But did it go too far?

I didn't start this thread in Current Affairs because I think this goes beyond politics. I believe that we, as Irish people, have a tendency towards placing ourselves at the centre of everything.

I have noticed that in any discussion -- say, of world cuisine, the Irish will inevitably swoop on it by extolling the virtues of blaa, or coddle, or their ma's apple tart.

Discussion of Brexit, North Korea or global warming always descend to small questions like "what does this mean for Ireland?" The Irish news media is fairly unique, to my knowledge, in framing every international news story in terms of an Irish significance (what does Global Warming mean for farmers in North Tipp?)

Irish people often seem to have a magnetic draw to one another when abroad. That's nice, but then you are inevitably drawn into a long and detailed conversation into 'how things are at home'.

The world does not revolve around this small island in the North Atlantic.

I love my country, and I love its language and its history. I'm not some Irish-hating wannabe west-brit. But we can be too introspective, too insular. Why?

We are a deeply parochial folk

Yamanoto

Look at the media landscape & public discourse of places like the US, Russia, India or Australia & I'm unsure as to how Ireland stands out as in any way singularly insular.

Curious assertion to make IMHO.

JackieChang

Being on the Irish internet for the last 15 or so years I've noticed that Irish people are extremely stuck up our own arses, basically think they are god's gift to the world.

I'm on the irish reddit forum quite a bit and they absolutely hate Brits and Irish Americans. And it's funny, for a crowd of people who claim to hate the Brits, 95% of the posts there are about the UK. In fact there's currently a photo of Boris Johnson sitting at the top of the page with 2,100 upvotes. Also constant complaining about the famine and "800 Years". Teenagers who never had a difficult day in their life talking about suffering and up the RA etc.

It's like the Cork Dublin thing. Cork people hate Dublin, but they can't shut up about it. Meanwhile Dublin doesn't even know they exist.

Any foreigner taking a glance into the Irish web-o-sphere would think the country is a very unwelcoming place.

They also hate anybody who doesn't know every single detail about Ireland.

"Jesus, I was talking to some lad from Ethiopia and he thought Ireland was in the UK, what a feckin eejit. Everybody in the world should know everything about our country".

Subcomandante Marcos

JackieChang wrote: »

Being on the Irish internet for the last 15 or so years I've noticed that Irish people are extremely stuck up our own arses, basically think they are god's gift to the world.

I'm on the irish reddit forum quite a bit and they absolutely hate Brits and Irish Americans. And it's funny, for a crowd of people who claim to hate the Brits, 95% of the posts there are about the UK. In fact there's currently a photo of Boris Johnson sitting at the top of the page with 2,100 upvotes. Also constant complaining about the famine and "800 Years". Teenagers who never had a difficult day in their life talking about suffering and up the RA etc.

It's like the Cork Dublin thing. Cork people hate Dublin, but they can't shut up about it. Meanwhile Dublin doesn't even know they exist.

Any foreigner taking a glance into the Irish web-o-sphere would think the country is a very unwelcoming place.

They also hate anybody who doesn't know every single detail about Ireland.

"Jesus, I was talking to some lad from Ethiopia and he thought Ireland was in the UK, what a feckin eejit. Everybody in the world should know everything about our country".

ElectronVolt

Is ireland insular? No I don't think it is at all. It's quite the opposite compared to quite a few places I've lived, including the UK and France. France can be shockingly insular on topics like food for example.

I find ireland can be very lacking in self confidence though and has a tendency to constantly undermine itself with discussion about "only in Ireland".

I'd say a lot of it comes from having been on the receiving end of having been put down for centuries by Anglo centric culture that has told us we are thick or worthless.

Just as an example, I have older relatives in Dublin who use the term "oh that's a bit Irish of him" to mean obtuse! I keep pointing out it's a bizzare phrase to use.

I've heard it used plenty of times in England though and I've been told things like about how you "got your Irish out" when I was annoyed with someone at a meeting and had to make a strong point.

Basically, we're a culture that has been abused so much over the years that we have weird lack of self confidence and I think this thread actually shows that too.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The independence of Ireland generated a social and cultural shift which may be unparalleled outside of Czarist and USSR Russia. Irish republicanism went from being a fringe movement, during the years of constitutional nationalism, to becoming ingrained in the people's outlook.

Quite a statement and untrue. Also the past is not today. Ireland is well plugged into the global world, particularly the Anglosphere.

I didn't start this thread in Current Affairs because I think this goes beyond politics. I believe that we, as Irish people, have a tendency towards placing ourselves at the centre of everything.

I have noticed that in any discussion -- say, of world cuisine, the Irish will inevitably swoop on it by extolling the virtues of blaa, or coddle, or their ma's apple tart.

There is nothing unique in any country or culture placing themselves at the centre of everything but we do it a bit less than the rest of the Anglosphere and probably the world. We don’t really extol our cuisine and nobody likes coddle except ironically.

discussion of Brexit, North Korea or global warming always descend to small questions like "what does this mean for Ireland?" The Irish news media is fairly unique, to my knowledge, in framing every international news story in terms of an Irish significance (what does Global Warming mean for farmers in North Tipp?)

Every news service does that, and Brexit clearly affects us as does global warming. RTE covers the US and Britain fairly thoroughly. The rest of Europe not so much. As for Brexit itself, our nearest and dearest neighbour entered into that fiasco without a thought for Ireland and the GFA, even though part of their jurisdiction extends to this island.

Irish people often seem to have a magnetic draw to one another when abroad. That's nice, but then you are inevitably drawn into a long and detailed conversation into 'how things are at home'.

I definitely don’t do that and I wonder how common it is, or unique it is.

I love my country, and I love its language and its history. I'm not some Irish-hating wannabe west-brit. But we can be too introspective, too insular. Why?

It’s a bit odd to accuse Irish people or news of being introspective relative to other countries. We cover Britain and the US far more than they cover us. Fairly minor events in the US, of no importance here, like anti fa or the BLM or a school shooting, can make the front page news or lead RTE coverage. European politics, the individual countries not the EU, are not covered enough but we do better than the U.K.

Meanwhile RTE doesn’t cover what isn’t covered in the Anglosphere news coverage. If Yemen isn’t bring covered by NBC, or the BBC then RTE won’t. Mexico could have a major mass killing and RTE wouldn’t mention it. I first heard of the Indian moon landing yesterday.

Our insularity is basically the insularity of the American dominated English speaking world, but less than the rest of that world.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

The op does point out something that is unique to Ireland. Thinking that fairly universal traits are unique to Ireland.

JackieChang

JackieChang wrote: »

Being on the Irish internet for the last 15 or so years I've noticed that Irish people are extremely stuck up our own arses, basically think they are god's gift to the world.

I'm on the irish reddit forum quite a bit and they absolutely hate Brits and Irish Americans. And it's funny, for a crowd of people who claim to hate the Brits, 95% of the posts there are about the UK. In fact there's currently a photo of Boris Johnson sitting at the top of the page with 2,100 upvotes. Also constant complaining about the famine and "800 Years". Teenagers who never had a difficult day in their life talking about suffering and up the RA etc.

It's like the Cork Dublin thing. Cork people hate Dublin, but they can't shut up about it. Meanwhile Dublin doesn't even know they exist.

Any foreigner taking a glance into the Irish web-o-sphere would think the country is a very unwelcoming place.

They also hate anybody who doesn't know every single detail about Ireland.

"Jesus, I was talking to some lad from Ethiopia and he thought Ireland was in the UK, what a feckin eejit. Everybody in the world should know everything about our country".

I nominate this for post of the month.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I nominate this for post of the month.

Ironically I hope.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

sdanseo wrote: »

Insular in our thoughts - no, I don't think so. We are as a populace well educated on global affairs when you compare to the likes of the UK and US.

Insular in our ways - absolutely.
A mundane example. I work in logistics. I deal with the continent while other departments deal with the UK and more others Ireland.
I will regularly get emails or phone calls asking for a cost to ship freight measured in feet and inches.

The Europeans would laugh me off the face of the earth if I didn't convert before sending the request.

It all boils down to our hardiness. "Ah it'll be grand".
Great on the one hand. We are more impervious to offence and being aggrieved which makes conflict less likely.
Abysmal from the point of view that we are seen from the outside as set in our ways, backwards and even irrelevant.

I’m not sure what this anecdote proves. Or even means. Or what’s particularly Irish about inches and feet.

JackieChang

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Ironically I hope.

Truth hurts I guess.

JackieChang

JackieChang wrote: »

Truth hurts I guess.

Yeah, my sides maybe.

EmmetSpiceland

Well it, certainly, can’t be said that we’re overly sensitive to the, slightest, perceived, “criticism”.

To be sure, to be sure.

Fourier

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I have noticed that in any discussion -- say, of world cuisine, the Irish will inevitably swoop on it by extolling the virtues of blaa, or coddle, or their ma's apple tart.

We are not by a long shot the worst when it comes to this. In fact I've never really seen an Irish person do this.

Try the French, Italians and Greeks who nearly reach the point of thinking their cuisine is more moral and edifying. Having spent a while in all three, some people literally will not eat in restaurants with "foreign" food.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Well it, certainly, can’t be said that we’re overly sensitive to the, slightest, perceived, “criticism”.

To be sure, to be sure.

I’m fairly “happy” with legitimate “criticism” of Ireland relative to other “countries”. For instance the justice “system” and the “health” system are deservedly “criticised”, as is “our” infrastructure.

Most of what the op said is either not true or worse in other “countries”.

Wibbs

Fourier wrote: »

We are not by a long shot the worst when it comes to this. In fact I've never really seen an Irish person do this.

Try the French, Italians and Greeks who nearly reach the point of thinking their cuisine is more moral and edifying. Having spent a while in all three, some people literally will not eat in restaurants with "foreign" food.

Very much so. On cuisine we're certainly not insular, perhaps because we don't have near the food history of a place like Italy.

In other respects I have found the Irish more outward looking than other cultures I've encountered. Being a small pretty homogeneous island we've had to be in many ways. We can be a curious mix of being locally parochial in spots, but still looking outward. The boyo wearing ""his" county GAA colours while traipsing through Cambodia kinda thing.

So no I would not say we're too insular, mostly the opposite and tend to be more influenced by outside cultural changes than most. Look at the subjects that can pop up on this site. One could be forgiven for believing that some posters were Americans or British. You can even see this in the shift in some accents from a more Hiberno British influence to a Hiberno American over the last twenty years. Twenty years ago the only people "bringing their mom to the store" would have been American tourists.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

We could do with a bit more insularity, maybe were we more insular we would reject much of the insane nonsense that in drains in from the fever swamps of the American academic system.

Capt'n Midnight

Black Swan wrote: »

Then again...
How the Irish Saved Civilization (1995). Book by Thomas Cahill.

We also invented nothing.

As in those gaps between letters that meant people didn't have to read out out loud anymore.

Seems to have caught on globally.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We also invented nothing.

As in those gaps between letters that meant people didn't have to read out out loud anymore.

Seems to have caught on globally.

Lasted until the hashtag era. #bringbackspaces

ElectronVolt

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I’m not sure what this anecdote proves. Or even means. Or what’s particularly Irish about inches and feet.

It's usually Americans and very far gone Brexiteers who get hung up on feet and inches. Haven't really noticed that in Ireland to and huge degree, other than a few legacy hangovers.

completedit

It's actually quite hard being from a small island but tied into the anglosphere. We're just a small cog and we know that really. That's why you have that obsession with 'the french love us' and constantly comparing our worldview to Brits and Americans. Notice we don't compare ourselves to Danes or Slovaks. I wonder how being from a small country vs being from a large one influences the mindset. I think of countries that were once powerhouses(like Macedonia and Bulgaria) but are now underdeveloped backwaters. Wonder what that collective consciousness and awareness of the past does when faced with a different present reality.

Capt'n Midnight

Fourier wrote: »

We are not by a long shot the worst when it comes to this. In fact I've never really seen an Irish person do this.

Try the French, Italians and Greeks who nearly reach the point of thinking their cuisine is more moral and edifying. Having spent a while in all three, some people literally will not eat in restaurants with "foreign" food.

Show this map to any Italian and notice how they are emphatic they are it.

https://brilliantmaps.com/italian-food/