English mechanic leaves €1.7 million tax free to Sinn Féin

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

Yez are a terribly suspicous lot.

Of Sinn Fein double standards?

Sinn Féin TD Eoin Ó Broin said the party was opposed to reducing inheritance tax.

“The current thresholds are generous and allow for a tax-free allowance of a quarter of a million euro. We have to decide what kind of society we want.

“Do we want to end the scandal of child homelessness and long hospital trolley waits? If the answer is yes then Government needs the revenue to fund vital front line services.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mixed-response-over-plan-to-cut-inheritance-tax-bills-1.2648419

expectationlost

recedite wrote: »

SF is an open borders party with main HQ in Dublin.

well they could and do say they are an all (island of) Ireland party, but I thought maybe they had 2 different entities due to the realities of the 2 countries and the different rules for things like donations


they list different account for the 26 and 6 counties https://www.sinnfein.ie/financial-accounts



but looking at the UK NI register http://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP39

Address line 1
44 Cearnharnell

Town
Baile Átha Cliath

Postcode
1

Country
Ireland, The Republic of

but all their accounting units are

53 Falls Road, Belfast, BT12 4PD, United Kingdom

recedite

There would be lots of companies with operations both sides of the border (eg Quinn group, which has no connection to any of this) and that, in and of itself, is fine.

They would need separate accounting procedures in each jurisdiction.


However the main HQ would be entitled to move profit back and forth from each "entity", so in this case it would be immaterial which side of the border the donation went to first. Except for the purposes of paying any tax on the donation.
You can be sure that SF accounted for the money in the most tax efficient manner, even if that meant paying tax to Her Majesty's Govt. as opposed to the Republic of Ireland.

expectationlost

recedite wrote: »

There would be lots of companies with operations both sides of the border (eg Quinn group, which has no connection to any of this) and that, in and of itself, is fine.

They would need separate accounting procedures in each jurisdiction.


However the main HQ would be entitled to move profit back and forth from each "entity", so in this case it would be immaterial which side of the border the donation went to first. Except for the purposes of paying any tax on the donation.
You can be sure that SF accounted for the money in the most tax efficient manner, even if that meant paying tax to Her Majesty's Govt. as opposed to the Republic of Ireland.

they get that American money and money from other UK donors that they can't spend in the Republic Ireland.The conditions are not just about taking money in but spending it too. (also as the title says its tax free)

recedite

It would be tax free if it "landed" in RoI.

CATCA 2003 s.76 provides that any gift or inheritance taken for purposes that are charitable or public in accordance with the law of the State is exempt from tax and is not taken into account in computing tax to the extent that Revenue is satisfied that it has been, or will be, applied to such purposes. The charitable or public purposes maybe either inside or outside of the State.Political donations taken and used for “political purposes” as defined by the Electoral(Amendment) Act, 2001 by political parties, politicians and election candidates satisfy the “public purposes” requirement of section 76 provided they meet the various requirements under that Act in relation to the receipt, amount, holding, use and recording of political donations.

And also if it landed in NI

Under HM Revenue & Customs rules, any UK political party which has at least two MPs in the House of Commons is not liable to pay inheritance tax on such a gift.

A political party also qualifies for exemption if it has one MP and received no less than 150,000 votes at the last general election. Without exemptions, anyone who is left £1.5m would be required to pay around £470,000 in inheritance tax.

So "tax free" either way.


How can they not spend their American or UK donations in RoI?
Whose rule?

expectationlost

recedite wrote: »

It would be tax free if it "landed" in RoI.

And also if it landed in NI

So "tax free" either way.


How can they not spend their American or UK donations in RoI?
Whose rule?

this rule

5.5 Foreign donations 5.5.1 A political party or any of its sub-units may not accept a donation, of any value, from an individual (other than an Irish citizen) who resides outside the island of Ireland. Similarly no donation, of any value, may be accepted from a body corporate or an unincorporated body of persons which does not keep an office in the island of Ireland from which at least one of its principal activities is directed.

https://www.sipo.ie/acts-and-codes/guidelines/donations/Guidelines-for-political-parties-on-donations-and-prohibited-donations.pdf

Mr Doherty insisted none of the money was spent on Sinn Fein’s work in the Republic of Ireland.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-says-12m-us-donations-bonanza-is-all-above-board-31042969.html

recedite

Good point, so although the mechanic may have resided in a caravan in RoI for a while, he resided in the UK (where the assets mostly were) when he died, which makes him a foreign donor...

William Edward Hampton, who died in Wales aged 82 on January 11th, 2018

So I think none of the money can be spent in this jurisdiction.
But good luck policing that.


Also on a technical point, as he specified the money should be paid to SF in the Republic of Ireland, via the beneficiaries at the stated address of 44 Parnell Square, Dublin, then technically, and strictly speaking, the surviving specified beneficiary cannot accept it.
The mechanic made out his will a few years ago (1997), before those SIPO rules came in. The benefactors/executers failed to advise him while he was alive to update the will, redirecting the money to the NI HQ.


I suggest you (or the relatives) make a complaint to the executer for paying out the money (to himself).
And also to SIPO.

The Mechanic wrote:

All the rest, residue and remainder of my estate of whatsoever nature and wheresoever situate, to include my assets in Ireland, England, Singapore and New Zealand and other assets I may have anywhere else in the world I give devise and bequeath to my Executors and Trustees, Joe Cahill and Dessie Mackin in trust for the political party in the Republic of Ireland known at this time as Sinn Féin.

Belfast native Mr Cahill, who died in 2004, was former chief-of-staff of the Provisional IRA and later a senior figure in Sinn Féin. He held the title of honorary life vice-president of Sinn Féin until his death at the age of 84.
Mr Mackin, also a native of Belfast, was joint Sinn Féin national treasurer with Mr Cahill for 10 years up to about 2001, when the party established the position of finance director, a position he then took up.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/english-mechanic-decided-to-leave-1-5m-to-sinn-f%C3%A9in-while-living-in-mobile-home-in-ireland-1.4004470


At this point I'd like to say I'm a huge fan of SF, and they deserve every penny of it, and there's no need at all to send the lads around to visit.

expectationlost

recedite wrote: »

Good point, so although the mechanic may have resided in a caravan in RoI for a while, he resided in the UK (where the assets mostly were) when he died, which makes him a foreign donor...

So I think none of the money can be spent in this jurisdiction.
But good luck policing that.


Also on a technical point, as he specified the money should be paid to SF in the Republic of Ireland, via the beneficiaries at the stated address of 44 Parnell Square, Dublin, then technically, and strictly speaking, the surviving specified beneficiary cannot accept it.
The mechanic made out his will a few years ago (1997), before those SIPO rules came in. The benefactors/executers failed to advise him while he was alive to update the will, redirecting the money to the NI HQ.

the will was written on 27th of June 1997 a month after the 1997 Electoral Act was enacted

it seems foreign citizen donations were only banned in 2002!

I thought it would have been 1997...

Portsalon

It appears that Doofus may have amputated his own mickey! :eek:

No wonder he liked Gerry Adams so much!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/donor-who-left-1-6m-to-sinn-fin-mutilated-himself-after-allegation-of-affair-38479486.html

expectationlost

so was he compus mentus if he left the money out of spite and paranoia

so what should be done with the money, he has no immediate living family, he might have nephews/nieces, I wonder if they would be looking to get it?

riffmongous

Portsalon wrote: »

It appears that Doofus may have amputated his own mickey! :eek:

No wonder he liked Gerry Adams so much!

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/donor-who-left-1-6m-to-sinn-fin-mutilated-himself-after-allegation-of-affair-38479486.html

The poor man had issues, no need to be an ass about it for pointless point scoring

Portsalon

riffmongous wrote: »

The poor man had issues, no need to be an ass about it for pointless point scoring

As a matter of interest, over who or what would you imagine I would be seeking to point score, pointlessly or otherwise?

Sonny noggs

Interesting article in the Independent. He cut off his own penis some 40 years ago after which he was admitted to a psychiatric unit.

tdf7187

recedite wrote: »

Not interested in women then.
I hear Bangkok is a favourite holiday destination for paedophiles.

Slandering a dead man, nice. Would you do this if he had donated to FF or FG? Half the population that take 'gap years' visit Thailand, guess they must all be paedos.

recedite

tdf7187 wrote: »

Would you do this if he had donated to FF or FG?

Yep.

tdf7187

recedite wrote: »

Yep.

Well, in that case your rush to label a person who had apparent mental issues is a bit concerning.

recedite

Firstly, you can't slander a dead man. By definition, only people who are alive can be worried about their reputation.


Secondly, even when he was alive, he strikes me as the kind of guy who didn't give a shít about his reputation.

recedite

tdf7187 wrote: »

apparent mental issues

"apparent"?
Thirdly, we are talking about millionaire who sleeps on the streets, or in a caravan, cuts off his own mickey with a rusty knife, and donates most of his estate to Sinn Fein.
I think the case is 100% proved that he was a mentalist.

Portsalon

recedite wrote: »

"apparent"?
Thirdly, we are talking about millionaire who sleeps on the streets, or in a caravan, cuts off his own mickey with a rusty knife, and donates most of his estate to Sinn Fein.
I think the case is 100% proved that he was a mentalist.

Nonsense!

It's completely normal for a wealthy self-castrated loner with a history of mental problems who was living in a camper van in the wilds of Cavan to draw up a will leaving most of his worldly goods to a political party associated with Gerry Adams and to appoint two prominent IRA men as his executors.

It happens every day of the week! And twice on Sundays.

Sonny noggs

Very quiet in here. Matt and Johnny would normally be all over something like this.

Topgear on Dave

tdf7187 wrote: »

Would you do this if he had donated to FF or FG?

We could probably knock 50 pages of comments out of it if FF or FG had got a bung from an unknown millionaire of a million and a half quid.

Particularly if they avoided irish political donation laws. :pac:



Still, it cant be easy keeping working class socialists like Eoin stocked with good lobster.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1165289715161096195

tdf7187

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

We could probably knock 50 pages of comments out of it if FF or FG had got a bung from an unknown millionaire of a million and a half quid.


Particularly if they avoided irish political donation laws. :pac:

Strange, then, that the Electoral Commission says there's nothing for them to investigate. Guess you must know something they don't.

blanch152

tdf7187 wrote: »

Strange, then, that the Electoral Commission says there's nothing for them to investigate. Guess you must know something they don't.

Do you have a link to that?

I didn't realise that Ireland has an Electoral Commission. Maybe Sinn Fein recognise the UK one.

maccored

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Very quiet in here. Matt and Johnny would normally be all over something like this.

Maybe life got in their way? Pretty open and shut case - man donates money to Sinn Fein, tabloids go loopy and print usual tabloid fair, usual people come on boards believing the usual indo/tabloid/redtop crap ... not much to debate about really

tdf7187

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have a link to that?

I didn't realise that Ireland has an Electoral Commission. Maybe Sinn Fein recognise the UK one.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/no-plans-to-investigate-sinn-fein-over-1-5m-donation-says-electoral-commission-38458094.html

tdf7187

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

We could probably knock 50 pages of comments out of it if FF or FG had got a bung from an unknown millionaire of a million and a half quid.

Particularly if they avoided irish political donation laws. :pac:



Still, it cant be easy keeping working class socialists like Eoin stocked with good lobster.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1165289715161096195

Left of centre politician tweets food pic. Hold the front pages.

McMurphy

Sonny noggs wrote: »

Very quiet in here. Matt and Johnny would normally be all over something like this.

Sonny seemingly banned for some reason I neither know nor care for.

The "very quiet in here" bit of that post is some irony now in hindsight though.

expectationlost

MLD defending the donation now https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/man-who-left-1-7m-to-sinn-f%C3%A9in-in-will-was-a-rebel-with-a-cause-1.4014772

wonder if any relatives can do anything about it

maccored

expectationlost wrote: »

MLD defending the donation now https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/man-who-left-1-7m-to-sinn-f%C3%A9in-in-will-was-a-rebel-with-a-cause-1.4014772

wonder if any relatives can do anything about it

defending? Where does it say that in the article?

title says she's praising it. theres no need to defend something someone donated of their own free will. Obviously if you think it wasnt a free will choice, back it up with some relevant data

Portsalon

maccored wrote: »

defending? Where does it say that in the article?

title says she's praising it. theres no need to defend something someone donated of their own free will. Obviously if you think it wasnt a free will choice, back it up with some relevant data

This is the bit that made me laugh out loud:

"Ms McDonald said it would be “inappropriate to comment” on Mr Hampton’s mental health issues."