rsa supporting e-scooters

1bryan

CramCycle wrote: »

You asked for regulations but when I put up a list of possible ones you don't respond.

I did respond. At least twice.

magicbastarder

if you work in an office that is say 3km from the nearest railway station, an e-scooter could easily save you a lot of time every day.
a 6km round trip on foot would take probably an hour or more; on an e-scooter averaging 20km/h would do it in 20 minutes.

Stark

marcos_94 wrote: »

Thats your issue. It doesnt make sense to you why someone would want an e-scooter because you already cycle. I was considering an e-scooter for commuting because my commute is long enough and I didnt have access to shower facilities.

You must also take into consideration that some people dont like cycling and dont want to do exercise on their way to work, so an e-scooter offers an alternative mode of transport to these people.

I'd say a huge proportion of scooter users are those that take public transport most of the way but are faced with a couple of kms walk when they get off the bus/train.

plodder

Not being able to store them in the office, or charge them could be a problem for commuters, but I think they are a good idea on balance. I've never used one but they look to me more risky to their users than bikes are, so I wonder if there should be a minimum age limit.

marcos_94

plodder wrote: »

Not being able to store them in the office, or charge them could be a problem for commuters, but I think they are a good idea on balance. I've never used one but they look to me more risky to their users than bikes are, so I wonder if there should be a minimum age limit.

The scooter s fold up so can very easily be stored under your desk, or against a wall. They normally have a range of at least 25km so charging in work may also not be an issue as they can be charged at home. I think the latest Xiaomi e-scooter has a range of 45km so would probably only need a charge once a week

plodder

marcos_94 wrote: »

The scooter s fold up so can very easily be stored under your desk, or against a wall. They normally have a range of at least 25km so charging in work may also not be an issue as they can be charged at home. I think the latest Xiaomi e-scooter has a range of 45km so would probably only need a charge once a week

Yes, agreed about charging but a previous poster mentioned they weren't allowed store it in their office. I think the concern was to do with battery fire risk and that's probably down to quality standards.

Stark

plodder wrote: »

Yes, agreed about charging but a previous poster mentioned they weren't allowed store it in their office.

Co-working space I was in (Huckletree) wouldn't allow them in the main building as they were a fire hazard apparently. Had to be kept in the car park.

mulbot

1bryan wrote: »

I spent some time in Miami last year where there are 2 e-scooter share schemes in operation (uber being one, spin being the other). I witnessed someone crashing into the side of a parked car, and someone else clipping a pedestrian. The majority of e-scooter use there was on the footpath, not on the road.

So, I have experienced an area where they are commonly used. In that case the issue wasn't so much as their co-existence with cyclists, but in society in general.

The area I was in had a large university nearby. The majority of e-scooter users were college kids, and the scooters were the absolute bane of everyone else there.

So have I. I spend most of the summer every year in Tallinn where they are widely used and haven't witnessed any issues. They are everywhere there, designated drop off and pick up areas, the city has benefitted massively from their use.

tomasrojo

Do people bring e-scooters into their place of work? Most of them are foldable, I think, and would fit under a desk? Possibly a mild fire hazard if you charge them at work.

I'd prefer an electric Brompton if I were looking for a sweat-free trip to work and didn't have secure parking. I think the operative life would be massively longer. But the price difference is extremely large.

EDIT: a lot of that has already been said, in the time I started typing it ...

ted1

magicbastarder wrote: »

if you work in an office that is say 3km from the nearest railway station, an e-scooter could easily save you a lot of time every day.
a 6km round trip on foot would take probably an hour or more; on an e-scooter averaging 20km/h would do it in 20 minutes.

I don’t think you’d get those speeds. Looking at my ride history on lime. The average speeds is around
8-10 kmh. You need to stop start , accelerate up to 20km.

Thargor

Amazing how that one user has been both knocked to the ground in an e-scooter assault and witnessed multiple incidents of e-scooter related carnage on the streets aswell...

ted1

marcos_94 wrote: »

The scooter s fold up so can very easily be stored under your desk, or against a wall. They normally have a range of at least 25km so charging in work may also not be an issue as they can be charged at home. I think the latest Xiaomi e-scooter has a range of 45km so would probably only need a charge once a week

I’d say the realistic range in many is 25km. The latest may have 45km but that would be in the minority

liamog

mulbot wrote: »

So have I. I spend most of the summer every year in Tallinn where they are widely used and haven't witnessed any issues. They are everywhere there, designated drop off and pick up areas, the city has benefitted massively from their use.

Paris is similar now, they implemented rules last Sepetember. A number of the city car parking spaces were converted to scooter boxes. They are approx every 250 meters. I'm pretty sure the shared scooter operator is fined if they are abandonded outside of these area's and will trace it back to the last renter. Lime ask you to post a photo of where you park to ensure compliance.

ted1

liamog wrote: »

Paris is similar now, they implemented rules last Sepetember. A number of the city car parking spaces were converted to scooter boxes. They are approx every 250 meters. I'm pretty sure the shared scooter operator is fined if they are abandonded outside of these area's and will trace it back to the last renter. Lime ask you to post a photo of where you park to ensure compliance.

Lime and others use geo location to block you from parking in certain areas, they also apply speed restrictions on some areas.

liamog

CramCycle wrote: »

- all users after readers dusk must have a front and rear light mounted on their person, at waist height or above. Failure to abide leads to a FPN like it does with cyclists.

I agree with all your other regulations, this one I think deserves further discussion. Most scooters come fitted with a handlebar front light and a rear light. I believe it's probably good enough to make the operator visible on the road. The low mounted rear light isn't ideal, but it mainly becomes a visibility problem when you are already on top of the operator. By this point if you are travelling faster than the scooter you will already be aware of the from a distance.

tomasrojo

There is a mininum-distance-from-ground stipulation for lights of bikes in Irish law. It's about 35cm.

I guess they might take that into account, if they ever get around to regulating e-scooters. Obviously, as pointed out, the front light is unproblematic.

liamog

tomasrojo wrote: »

There is a mininum-distance-from-ground stipulation for lights of bikes in Irish law. It's about 35cm.

I guess they might take that into account, if they ever get around to regulating e-scooters. Obviously, as pointed out, the front light is unproblematic.

It's not ideal, but I think it's better to have the light on the back that's always present due to CE regulations, than to rely on operators to strap a light to their back.

LillySV

magicbastarder wrote: »

mod note - no backseat moderation please.

LillySV - can you please read the charter of the forum, especially regarding negativity towards cyclists, and please go somewhere else if you've nothing constructive to say?
thank you

Well lads, I don’t understand the problem with my post? I just stated a fact.... that for everyone’s safety everyone should be regulated on the road and given training to ensure they aren’t a risk to either themselves or others? And then society should ensure that they cycle/drive in a safe manner and repercussions if not ... that’s the only way people learn . I’ve no problems with cyclists or e scooters.... but they aren’t above the law

tomasrojo

LillySV wrote: »

Well lads, I don’t understand the problem with my post?

The charter's here, if that helps:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056113049

CramCycle

liamog wrote: »

Maybe you haven't actually experienced an area where legalised scooters and cycles are able to mix. They travel at approx the same speed as commuting cyclist, it would be somewhat dangerous to implement a system where we had a lane of bikes doing between 25 km/h to 35 km/h next to a set of scooters hogging the left hand side of a general traffic lane doing between 20 km/h and 25 km/h. Or perhaps your suggestion is that we move cycle lanes closer to the center of the road and allow the slower e-scooters to occupy the area closer to the curb as they are slightly slower than the cycles?

Very few escooters go as fast as people here make out, I base this on having overtaken loads but not ever having been overtaken by one. Except the uni scooter guy on the N11. I clocked his speed at about 23kmph uphill but he has been the fastest. I know there are faster but they certainly are not common at the minute.

1bryan wrote: »

I spent some time in Miami last year where there are 2 e-scooter share schemes in operation (uber being one, spin being the other). I witnessed someone crashing into the side of a parked car, and someone else clipping a pedestrian. The majority of e-scooter use there was on the footpath, not on the road.

I have crashed into a parked car on a bike, should bikes be banned. I have watched joggers run full tilt into cars and buses, should running be banned. I have seen pedestrians shouldering each other, one guy once cleared someone else out of it with a shoulder, should walking be banned. Wait a minute, should anyone be allowed out due to the reckless behaviour of a few?

So, I have experienced an area where they are commonly used. In that case the issue wasn't so much as their co-existence with cyclists, but in society in general.

So maybe if they pushed for them to be used in cycle lanes it would be OK here? My memory of Miami was that everyone blended with each other, beach cruisers, roller blades, pedestrians, all without much issue.

The area I was in had a large university nearby. The majority of e-scooter users were college kids, and the scooters were the absolute bane of everyone else there.

So because some people were d1cks in nother country, we shouldn't look at it here? Have you seen there attitude to drink driving, I wouldn't take America as a good place to base my opinions of any form of transport TBH.

1bryan wrote: »

agreed on Dublin bikes, but at least the areas they are in are somewhat confined. I have seen some crazy behaviour on them, and there is definitely an issue to be addressed there.

But it is an issue with all transport modes, something that enforcement and an increased Garda presence would help with.

1bryan wrote: »

I think they're being self-propelled, rather than speed per se, is a compelling enough argument to require a licence, registration, and insurance.

Why is speed not the issue? are you saying ebikes that could do over 50kmph would be ok as they are not self propelled? Why a license? Hasn't improved road safety, just makes it more difficult to get access to legally use. Registration would cost more than the vehicle is worth and no insurance company would touch them as the admin costs alone would make it unattractive.

CramCycle

1bryan wrote: »

I did respond. At least twice.

No you didn't, not to mine anyway, the only responses I could see from you were as follows

Until and unless that list is finalised, I'd be hesitant to say whether I agree with their legalisation, or not.

you are throwing out a generic term like 'regulation' without defining it, and are expecting me to agree or disagree?

magicbastarder

LillySV wrote: »

I watch numerous cyclists cycle through read lights, cycle on footpaths, cycle through pedestrian crossings without giving way to pedestrians... appalling carry on .... e scooters will be the same. Both groups should be given mandatory training to make themselves safer on the road ....should they be made wear bibs with registration number plate for the license holder also so they can be easily identified and reported for dangerous/careless driving.

for the record, the charter explicitly forbids needless negativity, and your points above fall into this category. they're tired old tropes trotted out about cyclists, which do not hold up to scrutiny
Unfortunately for you, these are the sort of comments usually made by non-cyclists who arrive in here with a grievance about cyclists and people will read your comments in that vein, and the discussion goes nowhere
If you have any issue with this, please follow up with me on PM, not in the thread

marcos_94

CramCycle wrote: »

Why is speed not the issue? are you saying ebikes that could do over 50kmph would be ok as they are not self propelled? Why a license? Hasn't improved road safety, just makes it more difficult to get access to legally use. Registration would cost more than the vehicle is worth and no insurance company would touch them as the admin costs alone would make it unattractive.

To add to this, with regards to the license, it would more than likely be implemented in the same way that anyone with a license for cars can drive mopeds under 50cc. So, therefore, it would be meaningless to require a license, unless you (1bryan) somehow believe that these scooters require a separate category and are more dangerous than a 50cc moped.

CramCycle

liamog wrote: »

I agree with all your other regulations, this one I think deserves further discussion. Most scooters come fitted with a handlebar front light and a rear light. I believe it's probably good enough to make the operator visible on the road. The low mounted rear light isn't ideal, but it mainly becomes a visibility problem when you are already on top of the operator. By this point if you are travelling faster than the scooter you will already be aware of the from a distance.

True, like all regs, it needs work. Handlebar mounted one, white, makes perfect sense. Rear one, which I only found out years after lights were first introduced to me is not the most important of the two, is something that needs more discussion. I suppose if its fitted to the scooter, it makes it easier for a Garda to decide that it is non regulation is needs be. On the same note, I'd think if a Garda popped someone on a bike who had a light on his helmet and bag rather than on the frame, it would be a bit harsh. So long as they have a decent front and rear light I'd be happy but yes, I 'd be fine with that suggested change.

tomasrojo

If you really want to get into regulations, a lot of bike rear lights don't meet the regulations. They're too small, and if attached to the seat post they are attached to the bike at a point too far from the rear of the bike.

Obviously, this stuff isn't very important, but the regulations are really out of date. They're stipulated in Imperial, for a start.

CramCycle

tomasrojo wrote: »

If you really want to get into regulations, a lot of bike rear lights don't meet the regulations. They're too small, and if attached to the seat post they are attached to the bike at a point too far from the rear of the bike.

Obviously, this stuff isn't very important, but the regulations are really out of date. They're stipulated in Imperial, for a start.

Very true, I forgot about all that stuff about the size of the light etc. Technically I imagine 99.9% of lights are a breach of regulations, but only 5% are below the aim of the regulation standards in regards visibility and usefulness.

LillySV

magicbastarder wrote: »

for the record, the charter explicitly forbids needless negativity, and your points above fall into this category. they're tired old tropes trotted out about cyclists, which do not hold up to scrutiny
Unfortunately for you, these are the sort of comments usually made by non-cyclists who arrive in here with a grievance about cyclists and people will read your comments in that vein, and the discussion goes nowhere
If you have any issue with this, please follow up with me on PM, not in the thread

where was the negativity , I stated that more regulation was required to reduce road deaths.... that’s not negativity..... the negativity only comes about when you and your friend decided ye don’t like my suggestions. I’ve seen dangerous cyclists, bikers, car drivers... there is mandatory lessons and testing for bikers and car drivers which has shown to reduce road deaths... so surely lessons for cyclists and e scooterists would again further reduce incidents

tomasrojo

Most of the topics you've raised have been discussed to death. Do a search, and don't plonk down a gish gallop of hobby-horse restrictions.

1bryan

CramCycle wrote: »

No you didn't, not to mine anyway, the only responses I could see from you were as follows

you are being very selective in quoting and misrepresenting what I have been saying. It is pointless even attempting debate with you. I'm sure you are fully sure and it is fully intentional that you are twisting my words. Have a good day.

magicbastarder

LillySV wrote: »

where was the negativity , I stated that more regulation was required to reduce road deaths.... that’s not negativity..... the negativity only comes about when you and your friend decided ye don’t like my suggestions. I’ve seen dangerous cyclists, bikers, car drivers... there is mandatory lessons and testing for bikers and car drivers which has shown to reduce road deaths... so surely lessons for cyclists and e scooterists would again further reduce incidents

do not post in this thread again. you were told if you had an issue to take it to PMs and you ignored this.