Little Tern Project - 23 foxes shot

Working class heroes

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

No.

Killing humans snd foxes is not the same!!!!

You don’t say. Still doesn’t make it right.

embraer170

Birdnuts wrote: »

There is no "torture" involved in shooting a fox - they die as quick as farm animals in an abbatoir.

And the cubs who will starve to death over a few weeks?

Maudi

Alun wrote: »

My reply was to a poster who couldn't believe it was legal, and I merely pointed out that it was, or rather that it wasn't illegal. I made no comment on the moral issues.

My response was really to shooters on the tern colony/bird watch Ireland payroll acting as if they are into wild life but in reality just apply for the position as it give them free reign to pursue their out of control slaughter of foxes
Wise up birdwatch Ireland
Tut tut

archer22

FirstIn wrote: »

Call them what you like - they're there to do a job and that job is disgusting. Shooting the foxes when there are alternatives. A profession I for one would not have much time for, any otters near the little terns?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/three-men-fined-over-killing-of-otter-found-dumped-in-bag-1.3936293

"
Three men fined over killing of otter found dumped in bag
Trio who were working as gamekeepers convicted over animal’s death in Co Waterford
"

The killing of the Otters is the kind of sh1t that happens to our wildlife on a massive scale in Ireland.
The Otters are a huge tourist attraction on the Blackwater as the guys running the river cruises and Kayaking can tell you.

And look at the derisory little penalties those cnuts got..they were even left their firearm permits so they can do it again..they should have been barred from ever again possessing firearms and given at least a year or two in jail.

Anyhow fair dues to Brian Duffy who has once again shown himself to be a superb conservation ranger who does his job in difficult circumstances with little resources and way too little support from the courts.

Birdnuts

archer22 wrote: »

The killing of the Otters is the kind of sh1t that happens to our wildlife on a massive scale in Ireland.
The Otters are a huge tourist attraction on the Blackwater as the guys running the river cruises and Kayaking can tell you.

And look at the derisory little penalties those cnuts got..they were even left their firearm permits so they can do it again..they should have been barred from ever again possessing firearms and given at least a year or two in jail.

Anyhow fair dues to Brian Duffy who has once again shown himself to be a superb conservation ranger who does his job in difficult circumstances with little resources and way too little support from the courts.

No right minded persons condones such serious wildlife crimes. But it has zero relevance to what BWI are doing at the Kilcoole Tern colony. I think certain posters would want to read up on current Wildlife laws in this country in terms of protected versus unprotected species when it comes to lawfull shooting and trapping.

Annasopra

Maudi wrote: »

Just because there’s no legislation there to protect foxes you deem it absolves you from torturing them? That’s just a bit sick,hint;grow some balls and stop hiding behind legislation to pursue your depravitys

Mod

No more personal insults like this in the thread.

2011

Maudi wrote: »

My response was really to shooters on the tern colony/bird watch Ireland payroll acting as if they are into wild life but in reality just apply for the position as it give them free reign to pursue their out of control slaughter of foxes

With all due respect you have no way of knowing what their views on wildlife are. I know many shooters personally that are dedicated to the protection of protected species and would only act in a lawful manner. All we know is that there is nothing to suggest that the shooters are doing anything illegal and shooting foxes (unprotected species) means less terns (protected species) are suffering.

Bogwoppit

Maudi wrote: »

Terns aren’t “game”
Foxes aren’t “game” so what “ game” are these fools actually protecting, if gun control worked the way it’s supposed to work none of these idiots would be granted a licence to keep weapons
Indeed with an over kill like what’s going on down there I’m seriously thinking of reporting to the guards, this isint why gun Licence’s are issued

Could you please fill us in on why firearm licenses are actually issued?

I’m not sure what you’re implying here? Ireland has some of the strictest sure firearms licensing laws in the world, they are not weapons, they are firearms, very big difference.
Are all firearm owners idiots? If so, the guards aren’t doing a great job with the licensing are they? Or is it just firearm owners who shoot foxes?

Of course you are welcome to report these activities to the guards, I’m quite sure you won’t though as they will laugh you out the door. Actually please do report it and record the episode for us all to watch, I could do with a good laugh this week.

FirstIn

My opinion is , and others believe so too as you can clearly see on here, it’s wrong for so many to be shot when there are alternatives.

BWI advertise for people to carry out the slaughter. They know it goes on. Yet interesting they don’t mention it in their blog. Read their blog, they have a nice picture of a fox. Of course not a dead one after their hired gunmen have shot it!

They need to explore the alternatives.

.243

FirstIn wrote: »

More ignorant posts by the bloodthirsty pro shoot the fox brigade. Simple question - why did they shoot 5 foxes last year and 23 this ?

I’ll tell you why as you obviously have not done your homework.

Because of an abundance of rabbits beside the terns. I don’t think the foxes will tackle an electric fence when they have an abundance of food. They don’t need to.

I’ll also ask this - why does the job advert specify
“The ability to erect and maintain electric fencing” when you say fencing doesn’t work?

Come on guys. You’re in the dark ages here. Look after the terns without shooting so many foxes. That’s what we want. And it can be achieved.

It’s not an “ignorant post” it’s fact, you obviously have no experience in dealing with foxes as a pest

A couple of reasons actually,
A.who ever they got in before wasn’t doing the job correctly
B.i suspect they have been released there,there’s no way nearly 30 foxes (not including any that weren’t seen) saturate such a small countryside area,

A fox will pick off small birds and eggs all day long before they have to resort in hunting rabbits and will always go for the handy food,plus anything that doesn’t move very quickly is a great training tool for a vixen for its cubs to hunt,

Electric fencing is a deterrent that’s all for a limited time and I’ve seen foxes tackle them first hand so I know what I’m talking about,

If you’re to look after the terns without shooting so many you then tell me how many foxes need to be culled to make it acceptable ?

2011

Maudi wrote: »

Indeed with an over kill like what’s going on down there I’m seriously thinking of reporting to the guards,this isint why gun Licence’s are issued

I missed this earlier.
Extraordinary statement because this exactly what my father told the Gardai he wanted a gun for (shooting foxes) and on that basis they issued him with a license.

Del.Monte

I've just emailed BWI asking for somebody to come on here and explain the facts but they can be pretty tardy with their response to emails.

FirstIn

.243 wrote: »

It’s not an “ignorant post” it’s fact, you obviously have no experience in dealing with foxes as a pest

A couple of reasons actually,
A.who ever they got in before wasn’t doing the job correctly
B.i suspect they have been released there,there’s no way nearly 30 foxes (not including any that weren’t seen) saturate such a small countryside area,

A fox will pick off small birds and eggs all day long before they have to resort in hunting rabbits and will always go for the handy food,plus anything that doesn’t move very quickly is a great training tool for a vixen for its cubs to hunt,

Electric fencing is a deterrent that’s all for a limited time and I’ve seen foxes tackle them first hand so I know what I’m talking about,

If you’re to look after the terns without shooting so many you then tell me how many foxes need to be culled to make it acceptable ?

None should be culled . Alternatives need to be implemented.
Please call BWI yourself and ask them why there were so many / they shot so many this year. The reason they gave me is the large number of rabbits.
When you ask about “dealing with foxes” - you’re correct I’ve never shot a Fox. And never will.

archer22

Electric fences DO WORK I know farmers who have been using them successfully for years to keep Foxes out of places such as sheep lambing paddocks.

It is highly irresponsible for some posters here (vested interest ones) to be putting forward the falsehood that they don't, and by so doing attempting to discourage others from trying out what can be a very effective tool in their activities.

archer22

Whatever the rights and wrongs of shooting the Foxes in this case..IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DONE WHEN THEY WERE REARING CUBS!.

Foxes need at least a minimum protection in law..if even only in the interests of basic human decency and civilisation.

They can't be just left totally unprotected in law and left open to all forms of cruelty and abuse!

Working class heroes

Del.Monte wrote: »

I've just emailed BWI asking for somebody to come on here and explain the facts but they can be pretty tardy with their response to emails.

I think there are enough of them posting here already.

Bogwoppit

Working class heroes wrote: »

I think there are enough of them posting here already.

Would you care to highlight which posters you are referring to?

Working class heroes

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Would you care to highlight which posters you are referring to?

No, it’s against the forum rules. But I’d hazard a guess you knew that.

Bogwoppit

Working class heroes wrote: »

No, it’s against the forum rules. But I’d hazard a guess you knew that.

I certainly did not know that, however I think that you’re insinuating that posters who disagree with your point of view, myself included, are part of BWI.
Here’s a tip, search through people’s previous posts for evidence of such, you certainly won’t find any in mine.
I can’t say I’m the biggest fan of BWI but I’m on their side in this one.

Rolling out the conspiracy theories seriously devalues any argument you wish to make

Capercaillie

FirstIn wrote: »

More ignorant posts by the bloodthirsty pro shoot the fox brigade. Simple question - why did they shoot 5 foxes last year and 23 this ?

I’ll tell you why as you obviously have not done your homework.

Because of an abundance of rabbits beside the terns. I don’t think the foxes will tackle an electric fence when they have an abundance of food. They don’t need to.

I’ll also ask this - why does the job advert specify
“The ability to erect and maintain electric fencing” when you say fencing doesn’t work?

Come on guys. You’re in the dark ages here. Look after the terns without shooting so many foxes. That’s what we want. And it can be achieved.

Little terns nest on the shingle beach at Kilcoole. To fence out foxes you would need an electrified 8 foot fence. That fence would likely (due to exposed site) get destroyed during the winter storms, You would have to rebuild it every year, the cost would be prohibitively expensive.

BWI put up a temporary electric fence every year to help protect site from hedgehogs and discourage foxes. However if a fox want's to jump the fence he will do it anyways.

I have breeding corncrake on farm and looked into getting an electrified fence put up, was quoted 40,000 euros. Reluctantly I get the foxes cull. During Spring any fox dens that have foxes are removed. Snares are set up and local lad lamps them. The life of an endangered corncrake is more important than the life of a common species like a fox.

Working class heroes

Bogwoppit wrote: »

I certainly did not know that, however I think that you’re insinuating that posters who disagree with your point of view, myself included, are part of BWI.
Here’s a tip, search through people’s previous posts for evidence of such, you certainly won’t find any in mine.
I can’t say I’m the biggest fan of BWI but I’m on their side in this one.

Rolling out the conspiracy theories seriously devalues any argument you wish to make

Nah, I don’t need to search people’s profiles to see that members of BWI are posting in this thread. It’s blatantly obvious. Don’t see a problem stating that. With respect, maybe you should look up the definition of a conspiracy theory.

No problem with people disagreeing with me, makes for a good debate.

2011

Mod note: Please keep it civil. People on the internet won’t always agree, rather than get worked up about it please be nice
Thank you.

Working class heroes

Capercaillie wrote: »

Little terns nest on the shingle beach at Kilcoole. To fence out foxes you would need an electrified 8 foot fence. That fence would likely (due to exposed site) get destroyed during the winter storms, You would have to rebuild it every year, the cost would be prohibitively expensive.

BWI put up a temporary electric fence every year to help protect site from hedgehogs and discourage foxes. However if a fox want's to jump the fence he will do it anyways.

I have breeding corncrake on farm and looked into getting an electrified fence put up, was quoted 40,000 euros. Reluctantly I get the foxes cull. During Spring any fox dens that have foxes are removed. Snares are set up and local lad lamps them. The life of an endangered corncrake is more important than the life of a common species like a fox.

Genuine question. Did you seek/receive any financial help. Methods aside your intentions are good and the burden should not fall solely on you, as an individual.

FirstIn

Capercaillie wrote: »

Little terns nest on the shingle beach at Kilcoole. To fence out foxes you would need an electrified 8 foot fence. That fence would likely (due to exposed site) get destroyed during the winter storms, You would have to rebuild it every year, the cost would be prohibitively expensive.

BWI put up a temporary electric fence every year to help protect site from hedgehogs and discourage foxes. However if a fox want's to jump the fence he will do it anyways.

I have breeding corncrake on farm and looked into getting an electrified fence put up, was quoted 40,000 euros. Reluctantly I get the foxes cull. During Spring any fox dens that have foxes are removed. Snares are set up and local lad lamps them. The life of an endangered corncrake is more important than the life of a common species like a fox.

The tern area is small. Proper electric fencing could not be that expensive. I bet your corncrake area is larger.

I’m saddened to read of a new low in depraved behaviours on this thread. Snares and lamping. Sick.

2011

Mod note: Ok let’s tone the language down please.

Bogwoppit

Allowing an endangered species to be slaughtered because you think foxes are cute, depraved.

FirstIn

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Allowing an endangered species to be slaughtered because you think foxes are cute, depraved.

You’re missing the point. I don’t see one post which says we should allow the terns to be slaughtered.

What I see are people that want this protection done correctly. Not by shooting so many foxes.

Working class heroes

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Allowing an endangered species to be slaughtered because you think foxes are cute, depraved.

Please. Don’t be putting words in people’s mouths.
I don’t see anyone here advocating that.
Let me summarize my position. I’m all for the continuous protection of the Little Tern but I do not accept the mass culling is the way to go. I don’t believe it been more cost effective or convenient justifies it. It’s a lazy way out.
I was asked previously for an alternative, I provided it and was conveniently ignored.
May I also add, if all options have been exhausted(which I don’t believe they have) then as a last resort I would accept this method, reluctantly.

Now, would you consider that view depraved?

Working class heroes

It’s a long time since a thread in the Wicklow forum has had so much traffic

Bogwoppit

Working class heroes wrote: »

Please. Don’t be putting words in people’s mouths.
I don’t see anyone here advocating that.
Let me summarize my position. I’m all for the continuous protection of the Little Tern but I do not accept the mass culling is the way to go. I don’t believe it been more cost effective or convenient justifies it. It’s a lazy way out.
I was asked previously for an alternative, I provided it and was conveniently ignored.
May I also add, if all options have been exhausted(which I don’t believe they have) then as a last resort I would accept this method, reluctantly.

Now, would you consider that view depraved?

The problem with this is that by the time you’ve gotten to your last resort (which is proven to work), there will probably be no terns left.

I have direct experience of dealing with foxes and keeping them away from nesting birds (nothing to do with bwi), fences and scare tactics are unreliable and will not work forever, relocation is not legal and quite cruel.
Shooting is humane and works when done right, end of. This is fact.
Not coming from some random farmer I met with a fence.
The experts on the ground in bwi agree.
A fence only has to fail once and the entire years recruitment of terns will be wiped out/slaughtered, they’re easy pickings.
Dislike it all you want but that is the reality.