Little Tern Project - 23 foxes shot

FirstIn

Bird Watch Ireland confirmed to me they had 23 foxes shot as part of the little tern project this year. Which i think is abhorrent.

I know they have to protect the terns/nests/eggs but surely there is a better way of protecting them that doesn't involve shooting so many foxes. Better fencing, scare tactics or trapping and releasing the foxes springs to mind.

Killing so many foxes, especially during the summer when vixen are trying to feed their cubs is awful. Well I certainly think so.

I note the Bird Watch Ireland tern blog references foxes , indeed shows a picture of one which was present when the kids from a local school visited. Saying "we were accosted by a very tame fox" and goes on to say the school children ".. were more than happy to have encountered the sly fox". I wonder did they mention to the kids that their hired night time gunmen will likely have the tame fox shot before morning?

If you feel like i do then perhaps you could call BWI and voice your unhappiness, or indeed the National Parks and Wildlife Service who are ultimately in charge of the project. I have done so.

Del.Monte

Where did you get the information about the number of foxes shot? I see no mention of it on the Little Tern blog here: http://littleternconservation.blogspot.com/

You might get a more 'useful' response to your post than the one above if it was moved to the Nature and Bird Watching forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=406

FirstIn

Del.Monte wrote: »

Where did you get the information about the number of foxes shot? I see no mention of it on the Little Tern blog here: http://littleternconservation.blogspot.com/

You might get a more 'useful' response to your post than the one above if it was moved to the Nature and Bird Watching forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=406

I called BWI and they confirmed 23.

The reason I called was because I’d heard talk of a higher figure , over 30. This shocked me so I wanted to find out for sure.

Del.Monte

I find the figure difficult to believe, but if was done it was probably worth it as foxes are not an endangered species whereas Little Terns certainly are.

FirstIn

I posted this on the Wickow forum - adding it here due to its proximity to Greystones.

Mod note: No duplicate threads please.

SuperSean11

How much is a fox coat worth?

FirstIn

If it's his mother's, for the first 4 -5 months, to this guy everything.

Gaspode

FirstIn wrote: »

I posted this on the Wickow forum - adding it here

Please dont.

Maudi

I’m also delighted the tern colony has done well
I’m an avid wildlife fan
But I was horrified to learn of the huge fox cull this year at the Kilcoole tern colony
Over 30 fox shot!
Probably mother’s out looking for food for cubs
This is absolutely unacceptable from birdwatch Ireland
Has anybody else heard of this cull?

2011

The flip side is that it’s good news for the terns

Maudi

2011 wrote: »

The flip side is that it’s good news for the terns

There is no “ flipside”
Dozens of Fox cubs have probably had horrific drawn out deaths just because of some over zealous idiots are let loose on a tern colony, one or two problem foxes over a season may be acceptable but over 30 ? No way
Maybe bwi need to invest in better fences and cut back on rifle bullets

2011

Maudi wrote: »

There is no “ flipside”

.....except for the terns.
Perhaps the they deserve to live too?

Maybe bwi need to invest in better fences and cut back on rifle bullets

It is actually quite hard to build a fox proof fence. First of all they frequently dig under it. additionally foxes have been known to scramble over 6 foot fences. So a suitable fence would be very expensive.

Xterminator

So its good to introduce birds of prey and discuss bring back wolves, and the like.

Cause nature is so humane - right /s

But its not okay to actually go out a kill predators to carve a niche out for the purpose of protecting the habitat of an indigenous species that has had its natural habitats decimated by human encroachment - eg bull island.

Erm does anyone else see a blatant double standard here? No one wants to see terns wiped from ireland entirely, but because foxes are cute ....

FirstIn

Look at the BWI site and jobs. They’ve plenty of money to pay for hired gunmen. Spend it on fencing , trapping and scare tactics.

2011

FirstIn wrote: »

Look at the BWI site and jobs. They’ve plenty of money to pay for hired gunmen.

“Hired gunmen” sound very dramatic
Most people call them “gamekeepers”:

https://birdwatchireland.ie/get-involved/jobs/jobs-2019-tern-project-conservation-gamekeepers-and-wardens/

shellie70

FirstIn wrote: »

Bird Watch Ireland confirmed to me they had 23 foxes shot as part of the little tern project this year. Which i think is abhorrent.

I know they have to protect the terns/nests/eggs but surely there is a better way of protecting them that doesn't involve shooting so many foxes. Better fencing, scare tactics or trapping and releasing the foxes springs to mind.

Killing so many foxes, especially during the summer when vixen are trying to feed their cubs is awful. Well I certainly think so.

I note the Bird Watch Ireland tern blog references foxes , indeed shows a picture of one which was present when the kids from a local school visited. Saying "we were accosted by a very tame fox" and goes on to say the school children ".. were more than happy to have encountered the sly fox". I wonder did they mention to the kids that their hired night time gunmen will likely have the tame fox shot before morning?

If you feel like i do then perhaps you could call BWI and voice your unhappiness, or indeed the National Parks and Wildlife Service who are ultimately in charge of the project. I have done so.

I think cull is slightly dramatic and you should probably look up the meaning before using it in this context.I don’t think the foxes were shot for fun and wouldn’t think any warden gets pleasure in making that decision .The reality is far more foxes are killed on the roads and by pest control for less reasons than protecting one of the rarest breeding Terns in Ireland .You have to be realistic.Either you want Little Terns and Foxes in Kilcoole or JUST foxes 🦊 .Perhaps you should have visited the actual site .spend a few nights trying to protect the eggs and chicks .People in glass houses etc

FirstIn

2011 wrote: »

“Hired gunmen” sound very dramatic
Most people call them “gamekeepers”:

https://birdwatchireland.ie/get-involved/jobs/jobs-2019-tern-project-conservation-gamekeepers-and-wardens/

Call them what you like - they're there to do a job and that job is disgusting. Shooting the foxes when there are alternatives. A profession I for one would not have much time for, any otters near the little terns?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/three-men-fined-over-killing-of-otter-found-dumped-in-bag-1.3936293

"
Three men fined over killing of otter found dumped in bag
Trio who were working as gamekeepers convicted over animal’s death in Co Waterford
"

FirstIn

shellie70 wrote: »

I think cull is slightly dramatic and you should probably look up the meaning before using it in this context.I don’t think the foxes were shot for fun and wouldn’t think any warden gets pleasure in making that decision .The reality is far more foxes are killed on the roads and by pest control for less reasons than protecting one of the rarest breeding Terns in Ireland .You have to be realistic.Either you want Little Terns and Foxes in Kilcoole or JUST foxes �� .Perhaps you should have visited the actual site .spend a few nights trying to protect the eggs and chicks .People in glass houses etc

I don't see it as a binary 1 or 0. Little terns or foxes.
There are alternatives to shooting the foxes. You are missing the point of this thread.

And when it comes to visiting, I hope to do so and make sure all are aware of the high number of foxes shot. It's interesting the blog doesn't mention this fact. I wonder why?

.243

FirstIn wrote: »

There are alternatives to shooting the foxes.

like what ???,if youve a better option every livestock owner that gets affected by foxes would like to know too

Working class heroes

How is this even legal. Who/what body sanctioned this?

When the proposed greenway is built will the walkers/cyclists be shot as well?

Annasopra

Working class heroes wrote: »

How is this even legal. Who/what body sanctioned this?

When the proposed greenway is built will the walkers/cyclists be shot as well?

What?

Working class heroes

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What?

Two straight forward questions.... the second maybe slightly tongue in cheek but I’d hazard a guess the bird watching few know what I mean.

Annasopra

Working class heroes wrote: »

Two straight forward questions.... the second maybe slightly tongue in cheek but I’d hazard a guess the bird watching few know what I mean.

A tad overdramatic maybe

Working class heroes

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A tad overdramatic maybe

Well yes, exactly. A bit like killing 23 foxes.

Alun

Working class heroes wrote: »

How is this even legal. Who/what body sanctioned this?

Under what law do you think shooting foxes is illegal?

2011

Working class heroes wrote: »

How is this even legal.

Pest control.

Who/what body sanctioned this?

The government.

When the proposed greenway is built will the walkers/cyclists be shot as well?

No.
Humans remain a protected species however vermin will continue to be shot in a legal manner. Sometimes the line between human and vermin becomes blurred but that is for another thread.

Working class heroes

Alun wrote: »

Under what law do you think shooting foxes is illegal?

I don’t know, that’s why I asked.
I just can’t fathom how anyone could justify the killing of 23 foxes. The are been punished for been a successful species whilst another one is been rewarded for been far less so. It’s immoral.

Working class heroes

2011 wrote: »

Pest control.



The government.



No.
Humans remain a protected species however vermin will continue to be shot in a legal manner. Sometimes the line between human and vermin becomes blurred but that is for another thread.

“Pest control” is not an answer to my question, How is this legal. I’ve elaborated on this in my previous post.
Can you elaborate on your government jibe please, maybe some specifics?

You seem to have your mind made up that foxes are vermin. They are not. The term “vermin” is defined in relation to human activities so in the context of this thread it does not apply.

Alun

Working class heroes wrote: »

How is this legal.

I'll ask again, point me to a piece of legislation that forbids the shooting of foxes. Hint: There isn't one.

Working class heroes

Alun wrote: »

I'll ask again, point me to a piece of legislation that forbids the shooting of foxes. Hint: There isn't one.

You can ask as many times as you like.
I was asking a rhetorical question.
Are you familiar with the term “a rhetorical question “ do you need a hint?

delta_bravo

Working class heroes wrote: »

The are been punished for been a successful species whilst another one is been rewarded for been far less so. It’s immoral.

When you mean reward do you mean protected to a level that tries to prevent their extinction? Ridiculous argument.