Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

MikeSoys

what does BJ have against the backstop?

Strazdas

MikeSoys wrote: »

what does BJ have against the backstop?

Stops the UK signing trade deals globally, possibly even with the US (as he has to keep the Irish border open)

Christy42

Forty Seven wrote: »

The deal is dead, the EU won't renegotiate. There is only no deal or stay now. It all comes down to if those 'leave with a deal' voters decide to switch to remain or no deal. That's the big question now.

They have said repeatedly that if the UK comes up with a workable solution they will consider it. Or if the UK changes it's red lines they will take that into account.

Forty Seven

MikeSoys wrote: »

what does BJ have against the backstop?

He believes it will trap us into the customs union and there is no way to terminate it from our end. he also believes it will hamper other trade deals we may be able to make.

A Shropshire Lad

Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

cryptocurrency

Strazdas wrote: »

A border down the Irish Sea could solve the Brexiteers' problems ie. shaft the DUP / Unionists.

If they do that they would be better to walk away from NI.

Ireland can't afford to supplement the £10 billion budget deficit to keep the lights on nor the policing and the 1 million who will feel isolated.

cryptocurrency

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

Quit, or refuse. Paint himself as a do or die brexiteer and the rest of parliament against the people

Strazdas

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

There's speculation he could act in an obstructionist way if he was forced by the Parl to go to the EU ie. turn up in Brussels and then start messing them around.

Goodness knows what will actually happen in coming weeks.

cryptocurrency

Forty Seven wrote: »

He believes it will trap us into the customs union and there is no way to terminate it from our end. he also believes it will hamper other trade deals we may be able to make.

It is exactly that. The backstop is all about the "level playing field" they even admitted it.

EU knows the UK will totally out compete them without it

Leroy42

Forty Seven wrote: »

I'm on permanent disability and was recently migrated onto the hated universal credit. I have nothing good to say about tory economic policy. I believe I was pointing out how policy was not going to factor in the next election and used the lack of coverage of the 'end of austerity' to make that point. This election will be a referendum in all but name.

So you expect all those unfortunate like yourself that rely on, and are being mistreated by, the government run by the Tories to vote them back into power on the basis on 'getting BRexit done'?

Those relying on food banks, those on Zero Hour Contracts. We hear all the time that the public are simply sick and tired on Brexit and that they should just get on with it, but they seemingly care far more about Brexit than even themselves.

An Ciarraioch

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

Tony Connelly says that the magic plan is ... to remove all references to the backstop from the Withdrawal Agreement!

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1169708806173069312

cryptocurrency

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you expect all those unfortunate like yourself that rely on, and are being mistreated by, the government run by the Tories to vote them back into power on the basis on 'getting BRexit done'?

Those relying on food banks, those on Zero Hour Contracts. We hear all the time that the public are simply sick and tired on Brexit and that they should just get on with it, but they seemingly care far more about Brexit than even themselves.

They believe that Brexit is the barrier to fixing their low skilled employment and housing needs.

Leroy42

Forty Seven wrote: »

He believes it will trap us into the customs union and there is no way to terminate it from our end. he also believes it will hamper other trade deals we may be able to make.

Hold on. I thought he was negotiation alternative arrangements? Surely if he already has these then the backstop will never come into effect?

Seth Brundle

Strazdas wrote: »

A border down the Irish Sea could solve the Brexiteers' problems ie. shaft the DUP / Unionists.

This would give NI the best of both the the EU and the UK.
Scotland will straight away be looking for independence and won't stop until they get it!

Leroy42

cryptocurrency wrote: »

They believe that Brexit is the barrier to fixing their low skilled employment and housing needs.

Why would they think that? Surely they can see that the TOry have driven austerity the last number of years, hence we people like 47 are claimed that Sajid has signalled the end of it.

How can that be when the EU are actually in control?

Leroy42

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It is exactly that. The backstop is all about the "level playing field" they even admitted it.

EU knows the UK will totally out compete them without it

How are they going to outcompete the EU?

By lower standards, reducing regulations, employment law, CT taxes, allowing imports free of tariffs.

All sounds great except for the people effected by it all.

They have seemingly promised to cover any impacts on NI farmers. Will cover any monies lost to regions from EU funds. Will have to hire and pay for vastly increased public servants for the likes of Customs.

Have anybody actually seen the net gain/loss of leaving the EU in monetary terms? THe only things I have seen have all been negative.

cryptocurrency

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why would they think that? Surely they can see that the TOry have driven austerity the last number of years, hence we people like 47 are claimed that Sajid has signalled the end of it.

How can that be when the EU are actually in control?

Blair and mass migration, that is what they see as the issue. 2 week waits for a GP etc..

EU is not getting that this is happening either way, neither do londoners. This is a mordern day revolt and it is better to engage it then call them stupid and talk unicorns.

The masses have slowly got more angry to the point that this will just get worse until it is agreed.

cryptocurrency

Leroy42 wrote: »

How are they going to outcompete the EU?

By lower standards, reducing regulations, employment law, CT taxes, allowing imports free of tariffs.

All sounds great except for the people effected by it all.

Thats the EU fear...they keep saying "we don't want the UK to become the singapore of europe"

BluePlanet

RTE have the story as well: https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0905/1074163-brexit-eu-commission/

So hard border it is, with some fudging.

Forty Seven

Leroy42 wrote: »

So you expect all those unfortunate like yourself that rely on, and are being mistreated by, the government run by the Tories to vote them back into power on the basis on 'getting BRexit done'?

Those relying on food banks, those on Zero Hour Contracts. We hear all the time that the public are simply sick and tired on Brexit and that they should just get on with it, but they seemingly care far more about Brexit than even themselves.

Personally, I will be spoiling my vote as I am in a safe SNP seat. I could never vote tory, labour would be my natural vote but I think they have gone too far left with Corbyn and I don't like their identity politics nonsense and the lib dems are chancers.



If you look at the leave vote in yorkshire it is strong in the industrial wastelands, so yes. I fully expect them to vote him in, just as the rust belt in America voted in a republican billionaire. Most brexiteers are all about the immigrants. Economic policy has nothing to do with it. They are fully capable of cutting off their nose to spite their face but most of all they are enjoying feeling some political power after years of disenfranchisement.

Leroy42

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Blair and mass migration, that is what they see as the issue. 2 week waits for a GP etc..

So the UK governments fault. Could all have been different expect that Blair was voted in by the people.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

EU is not getting that this is happening either way, neither do londoners. This is a mordern day revolt and it is better to engage it then call them stupid and talk unicorns.

They have engaged, the UK have been negotiating since November
2018 whilst the EU have accepted that it will be one of WA or No Deal.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The masses have slowly got more angry to the point that this will just get worse until it is agreed.

But all the things you point to as the basis for the anger are UK based problems. Leaving the EU will not solve any of it.

prawnsambo

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Whats Boris going to do now. He says he wont go back to EU and ask for an extension under any circumstances, but parliamnent are going to compel him to do that ?

He also says he'll have a new deal agreed at the EuCo on 17th October and that he won't look for an extension. As far as I can see, those two things are incompatible. There are only nine working days between the 17th and 31st. Two of those are non-sitting days in the HoC (not sure about the EuroParl). So seven days to get through parliament and back to Brussels to get through the EuroParl. Don't think that's possible. And that's assuming the EuCo agree on the 17th. Can't see that happening either. Never mind what could happen in the parliaments.

Forty Seven

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why would they think that? Surely they can see that the TOry have driven austerity the last number of years, hence we people like 47 are claimed that Sajid has signalled the end of it.

How can that be when the EU are actually in control?

I'm not sure of the relevance of myself in your post. I clearly laid out my position and you appear to have the wrong end of the stick if you think I believe in Sajids nonsense.

Leroy42

Forty Seven wrote: »

I'm not sure of the relevance of myself in your post. I clearly laid out my position and you appear to have the wrong end of the stick if you think I believe in Sajids nonsense.

Apologies if I mistook you. I might have mistaken either your post or taken another uses post as yours.

Whichever, I take your word for it and please accept my apologies for the misrepresentation.

Forty Seven

BluePlanet wrote: »

RTE have the story as well: https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0905/1074163-brexit-eu-commission/

So hard border it is, with some fudging.

Just saw Leo looking very dejected telling a crowd the bad news on the BBC. He said there will be checks on the border.



How likely are we to see the troubles back if the border becomes an issue?

A Shropshire Lad

Havent heard much out of the DUP recently. Couldnt get Sammy Wilson off the telly 6 months ago

lawred2

Forty Seven wrote: »

Just saw Leo looking very dejected telling a crowd the bad news on the BBC. He said there will be checks on the border.



How likely are we to see the troubles back if the border becomes an issue?

This will not result in a deal with the EU for Parliament to vote on.

This parliament has killed no deal. This parliament will oust the Tories and seek an extension that it will get.

I fail to see what the point of these nonsense proposals are by a dead government walking. Their mandate to negotiate anything is with O Leary in the grave.

The EU would be best breaking off negotiations with what is clearly not an honest broker and step up no deal prep. And not reenter any talks until there is a clear tangible change in the direction the UK is taking.

BluePlanet

It also likely axes any trade deal with the US.

It's time for some serious Irish soft power.

sdanseo

lawred2 wrote: »

This will not result in a deal with the EU for Parliament to vote on.

This parliament has killed no deal. This parliament will oust the Tories and seek an extension that it will get.

I fail to see what the point of these nonsense proposals are by a dead government walking. Their mandate to negotiate anything is with O Leary in the grave.

I also fail to see the point, but for a different reason. If the backstop is a BJ red line, and also an EU red line, they are bound to failure.
Even if by some miracle of misfortune BJ somehow managed to get the EU to remove the backstop (frankly impossible after today's rhetoric) he would be moving forward a border poll and everything that entails by several years and potentially becoming the PM that lost Northern Ireland. Given what else that would trigger, he would also be the PM that destroyed Great Britain. By definition.

The UK's undemocratic electoral system is likely to result in at best another hung Parliament. An election is imminent and absolutely inevitable but it is important that it does not happen so early as to give BJ time to repeal the law just passed if he wins that election.

lawred2

sdanseo wrote: »

The UK's undemocratic electoral system is likely to result in at best another hung Parliament. An election is imminent and absolutely inevitable but it is important that it does not happen so early as to give BJ time to repeal the law just passed if he wins that election.

This parliament does not need an election to take control... A VONC puts an end to the Tories.