Air travel and tourism - are they doomed?

Roger_007

So Greta Thunberg has set sail for America in a 16ft yacht. She wants to make a point about the contribution of air travel to CO2 and climate change.
She seems to have a lot of influence over the younger generation in particular. Will she succeed in convincing large numbers of people to stop travelling by air and thereby reverse the trend of ever increasing numbers flying hither and thither just because they can.
Ireland's tourist industry depends almost exclusively on cheap and frequent flights into and out of the country. Air fares can only be low if the volume of seats sold is high. We could see many airlines go out of business altogether.
Norwegian Air has just announced that they are stopping their transatlantic services from Ireland. Is this a sign of things to come?
If the anti-flying campaign promoted by Thunberg and others gains significant traction, our island economy, and especially the tourist industry, would be one of the first to suffer.

kneemos

All this environmental stuff is fine until you actually have to do something.

Few hippies might take the boat, otherwise it won't matter.

TheValeyard

Not a chance people will give up flying for holidays. No more trips to Spanish beaches or shopping in NYC?

Virtue signaling is flying high, actually following through is a different thing.

is_that_so

Overtourism might hit it first. There will be higher carbon taxes on flights but we'll adjust to the fare increases over time.

whisky_galore

Norwegian stopped flying that route because low cost transatlantic doesn't work. That and the problems with the grounded MAX but do go on...

kneemos

is_that_so wrote: »

Overtourism might hit it first. There will be higher carbon taxes on flights but we'll adjust to the fare increases over time.

Don't see carbon taxes being imposed on flights. Tourism is big business.
If it is it'll be negligible.

Capt'n Midnight

Roger_007 wrote: »

So Greta Thunberg has set sail for America in a 16ft yacht. She wants to make a point about the contribution of air travel to CO2 and climate change.

First of all it's 60ft not 16ft.
That's two double decker buses long.

Costs start around €4m so construction would have had a massive carbon foot print and needs a round the clock crew.

Completely unsustainable. It's a publicity stunt.

murpho999

How is she getting home when she's finished?

ToddyDoody

Electric airplanes that don't go on fire. Sorted.

Water John

I think flight contributes 2.5% of GHG total. I think we''l look at all aspects of life and make some changes. I wouldn't see holidays by flight changing much. The regular weekends away that have come with low cost airlines could and should be reduced.

Stephen15

As a part of the younger generation I don't think the likes of Greta Thunberg have any influence on me or any of my mates. I honestly don't think most people care or care enough to actually do something. I can't say I know anyone who is a vocal supporter of hers I get the impression most lads are into sport particularly soccer and most girls are into things like Love Island certainly not much interest in the enviroment.

Most of it is complete bs that is blaming ordinary people for climate change (which I'm skeptical about) and not big corporations who are responsible for most of the pollution and developing countries like India and China. Also the hypocrites who believe it is better for the enviroment to eat avocados imported from South America than Irish beef.

branie2

No

kneemos

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

First of all it's 60ft not 16ft.
That's two double decker buses long.

Costs start around €4m so construction would have had a massive carbon foot print and needs a round the clock crew.

Completely unsustainable. It's a publicity stunt.

It's hard to win with this enviromentalism when you put yourself up as a shining example, unless you stay at home and eat cabbages you've grown yourself.

Taking a boat to America is just stupid though, and dangerous.

Vic_08

Stephen15 wrote: »

As a part of the younger generation I think the likes of Greta Thunberg have any influence on me or any of my mates. I honestly don't think most people care or care enough to actually do something. I can't say I know anyone who is a vocal supporter of hers I get the impression most lads are into sport particularly soccer and most girls are into things like Love Island certainly not much interest in the enviroment.

Most of it is complete bs that is blaming ordinary people for climate change (which I'm skeptical about) and not big corporations who are responsible for most of the pollution and developing countries like India and China. Also the hypocrites who believe it is better for the enviroment to eat avocados imported from South America than Irish beef.

Yeah, that was my choice for dinner yesterday; steak or an avocado. :rolleyes:

BTW it is correct to say that a vegetarian diet has a far lower resource footprint than a meat based one, in particular cattle farming is very inefficient. That is still true for produce sourced across the globe as long as it is transported by sea not air.

The biggest hypocrisy is people choosing to believe that which just happens to validate their lifestyle choices. Laying blame at developing countries who are simply apeing western consumerism when we have been vastly higher users of resources for over a century is both ignorant and reprehensible, sure the world would be just fine if those dirt poor peasants didn't have ideas above their station.

screamer

Vic_08 wrote: »

Yeah, that was my choice for dinner yesterday; steak or an avocado. :rolleyes:

BTW it is correct to say that a vegetarian diet has a far lower resource footprint than a meat based one, in particular cattle farming is very inefficient. That is still true for produce sourced across the globe as long as it is transported by sea not air.

The biggest hypocrisy is people choosing to believe that which just happens to validate their lifestyle choices. Laying blame at developing countries who are simply apeing western consumerism when we have been vastly higher users of resources for over a century is both ignorant and reprehensible, sure the world would be just fine if those dirt poor peasants didn't have ideas above their station.

Countries like China and India are you joking? Their production activities are destroying the environment on a huge scale. 1 billion strong populations.... millions of factories, coal burning power stations, air they can’t even breathe due to pollution. Have a think about that.

Back on topic yes I think taxes are needed to stop stupid flights. Weekends in America.etc. utter BS, so people can buy clothes cheaply and cost the environment dearly. I’ve no problem with taxes on these at all.

Podge_irl

Stephen15 wrote: »

Most of it is complete bs that is blaming ordinary people for climate change (which I'm skeptical about) and not big corporations who are responsible for most of the pollution

This is akin to blaming British Airways for flight emissions and saying its nothing to do with the regular passenger. The big corporations produce these emissions in order to fulfil the needs/desires of ordinary people.

Of course it is a publicity stunt, but what exactly is wrong with that? There is no (serious) suggestion you need to stop travelling completely - just maybe give a bit of extra thought to whether you really need to fly somewhere when booking it.

elefant

A couple of flights from Knock to Malaga isn't going to tip the scales on turning the earth into a fiery deathball.

I'd be slightly less sympathetic towards businessmen flying for day trips between Europe and Japan 40 times a year.

Cee-Jay-Cee

They’ll invent electric planes in a few years time so it’ll be grand.

ceadaoin.

screamer wrote: »

Countries like China and India are you joking? Their production activities are destroying the environment on a huge scale. 1 billion strong populations.... millions of factories, coal burning power stations, air they can’t even breathe due to pollution. Have a think about that.

Back on topic yes I think taxes are needed to stop stupid flights. Weekends in America.etc. utter BS, so people can buy clothes cheaply and cost the environment dearly. I’ve no problem with taxes on these at all.

How do you decide what is a "stupid flight"? Most of those flights to and from America are also full of people going on business trips or to see family and not just people going to buy cheap clothes (do people really do that though?). Is that also stupid? I suppose those people should just give up their jobs or never see their families again. It still won't make any difference though will it?

AndyBoBandy

kneemos wrote: »

Taking a boat to America is just stupid though, and dangerous.

How so?

The boat in question is an IMOCA 60, designed for solo racing around the world (non stop) in the Vendeé Globe race which takes place every couple of years. A trip from England to America on one of these boats (fully crewed by the way) is the equivalent of driving down to your local Tesco with your mates in the car with you.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Water John wrote: »

I think flight contributes 2.5% of GHG total. I think we''l look at all aspects of life and make some changes. I wouldn't see holidays by flight changing much. The regular weekends away that have come with low cost airlines could and should be reduced.

Give everybody 1-2 short haul flights a year?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How do you decide what is a "stupid flight"? Most of those flights to and from America are also full of people going on business trips or to see family and not just people going to buy cheap clothes (do people really do that though?). Is that also stupid? I suppose those people should just give up their jobs or never see their families again. It still won't make any difference though will it?

Skype calls. FTW.

screamer

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How do you decide what is a "stupid flight"? Most of those flights to and from America are also full of people going on business trips or to see family and not just people going to buy cheap clothes (do people really do that though?). Is that also stupid? I suppose those people should just give up their jobs or never see their families again. It still won't make any difference though will it?

Stupid trips then. Anything with a 2 to 3 day return, tax the ticket, the further it is the more it’s taxed Easy enough to do. Yes people do go on weekend trips with the main purpose to buy clothes, where have you been living?

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Vic_08 wrote: »

Yeah, that was my choice for dinner yesterday; steak or an avocado. :rolleyes:

BTW it is correct to say that a vegetarian diet has a far lower resource footprint than a meat based one, in particular cattle farming is very inefficient. That is still true for produce sourced across the globe as long as it is transported by sea not air.

The biggest hypocrisy is people choosing to believe that which just happens to validate their lifestyle choices. Laying blame at developing countries who are simply apeing western consumerism when we have been vastly higher users of resources for over a century is both ignorant and reprehensible, sure the world would be just fine if those dirt poor peasants didn't have ideas above their station.

Hmm, a resource footprint is not the same as a carbon footprint is it? If we could stop methane emission from cattle it would be a fairly benign form of agriculture in countries like Ireland, where cows eat grass.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

screamer wrote: »

Stupid trips then. Anything with a 2 to 3 day return, tax the ticket, the further it is the more it’s taxed Easy enough to do. Yes people do go on weekend trips with the main purpose to buy clothes, where have you been living?

Taxes won’t work. Only rationing will work.

titan18

screamer wrote: »

Countries like China and India are you joking? Their production activities are destroying the environment on a huge scale. 1 billion strong populations.... millions of factories, coal burning power stations, air they can’t even breathe due to pollution. Have a think about that.

Back on topic yes I think taxes are needed to stop stupid flights. Weekends in America.etc. utter BS, so people can buy clothes cheaply and cost the environment dearly. I’ve no problem with taxes on these at all.

Per person, the US are by far a higher producer of carbon emissions than India or China tbf. India are also investing heavily in solar power, and are doing a lot to get their population out of poverty which should help to lower birth rates.

suicide_circus

We're all environmentalists....until it requires us to hinder our standard of living and forego our little luxuries.

I think it'll take some profoundly disastrous ecological event with millions dead for people to change their ways.

Our societies and economies are based on over consumption and disposability.

Jimbob1977

It's like when a music festival promotes environmentalism and caring for the planet.

The next morning.... tons of rubbish discarded everywhere.

"Someone else will pick it up"

angel eyes 2012

This is why I question the actual environmental impact that restricting the use of cars makes in the overall scheme of things. In my workplace, I observe that most of the cyclists tend to be the most prolific users of long haul flights to places like Vietnam, Thailand and Australia. Admittedly, this is purely anecdotal and I’d have to see the science to really determine the argument that cars are having such a negative impact on our cities when the cumulative effect of cows and planes are completely undoing any environmental benefit of curbing the use of vehicles.

suicide_circus

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

This is why I question the actual environmental impact that restricting the use of cars makes in the overall scheme of things. In my workplace, I observe that most of the cyclists tend to be the most prolific users of long haul flights to places like Vietnam, Thailand and Australia. Admittedly, this is purely anecdotal

I can absolutely second your anecdotal observations

Beechwoodspark

Very much hope the cheap flights booked on a whim market is doomed

Need to tax the hell out of it so that the taxes can be put into green solutions.

Let Irish ppl go on eco tourism holidays in donegal or the wild Atlantic way and not hopping on Ryan air flights to Alicante

kneemos

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

How so?

The boat in question is an IMOCA 60, designed for solo racing around the world (non stop) in the Vendeé Globe race which takes place every couple of years. A trip from England to America on one of these boats (fully crewed by the way) is the equivalent of driving down to your local Tesco with your mates in the car with you.

It's a pointless exercise. The only reason she's doing it is because she doesn't want the backlash on social media of taking a flight.

Beechwoodspark

elefant wrote: »

A couple of flights from Knock to Malaga isn't going to tip the scales on turning the earth into a fiery deathball.

I'd be slightly less sympathetic towards businessmen flying for day trips between Europe and Japan 40 times a year.

Agree on this also

99.9 percent of business can be conducted over this new fangled technology called “Skype”!

Or even email and phone. Or the humble snail mail even.

The aviation industry of course wants all these needless pointless travel to continue unabated while the planet goes to hell environmentally

whisky_galore

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Very much hope the cheap flights booked on a whim market is doomed

Need to tax the hell out of it so that the taxes can be put into green solutions.

Let Irish ppl go on eco tourism holidays in donegal or the wild Atlantic way and not hopping on Ryan air flights to Alicante

Do you not take these cheap flights abroad at all yourself, or do you sit at home in the rain... in sackcloth...possibly flagellating yourself?

AndyBoBandy

kneemos wrote: »

It's a pointless exercise. The only reason she's doing it is because she doesn't want the backlash on social media of taking a flight.

I never said it wasn't pointless.

Those boats are made using many energy consuming methods, costing a lot of money, not to mention the vast amounts of petro-chemicals used in their construction.

A publicity stunt is all this is.

She is saying this is the only way she can get to America emission free! This method is far from emission free. A boat like this, will have 2-3 new suits of sails for every season (and probably a new set for every big race), and the glues alone in making such sails, would last a primary school about 10 years!! (not that a school would be allowed to use them as they are highly toxic)

Beechwoodspark

whisky_galore wrote: »

Do you not take these cheap flights abroad at all yourself, or do you sit at home in the rain... in sackcloth...possibly flagellating yourself?

I use Skype as much as possible for business and seriously its 99.99 percent effective.

No need for these time wasting business jollies

whisky_galore

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I use Skype as much as possible for business and seriously its 99.99 percent effective.

No need for these time wasting business jollies

Where do you go on holiday? Hmm?

screamer

whisky_galore wrote: »

Do you not take these cheap flights abroad at all yourself, or do you sit at home in the rain... in sackcloth...possibly flagellating yourself?

I don’t on a point of principle, and I’m sure there are others. I also don’t buy imported veg that can be sourced from Irish growers. Small changes can help, but it’s a mindset change and if we sit around with all the what aboutery and doing nothing, nothing will change.

Beechwoodspark

whisky_galore wrote: »

Where do you go on holiday? Hmm?

I Stay Irish.

I’ve No patience for the cheap air fares lark

Tax the carrier. Tax the individual fares (green tax) and tax the daa itself. Make it completely uneconomic for huge amounts of routes in and out of Ireland.

Funnel that tax income into green solutions.

Let Irish ppl holiday local and as I say Skype is your friend for business trips.

Beechwoodspark

Fyi


There’s more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere than any time in human history

In May, sensors at the Mauna Loa observatory in Hawaii – which has tracked Earth’s atmospheric concentration of CO2 since the late 1950s – detected a CO2 concentration of 415.26 ppm. The last time Earth's atmosphere contained this much CO2 was more than three million years ago, when sea levels were several metres higher and trees grew at the South Pole. Scientists have warned that carbon dioxide levels higher than 450ppm are likely to lock in catastrophic and irreversible changes in the climate. Around half of the CO2 emitted since 1750 has been in the last 40 years.

suicide_circus

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Fyi


There’s more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere than any time in human history

theres also more people, a smaller % of people in poverty, less infant mortality, less starvation, less war, less ignorance, less cruelty. where does this get us?

Graces7

whisky_galore wrote: »

Do you not take these cheap flights abroad at all yourself, or do you sit at home in the rain... in sackcloth...possibly flagellating yourself?

:eek: and

I have not flown since I came to Ireland nearly 20 years ago. Nor been out of Ireland have no desire or need to. Holidays are not compulsory! Vastly overrated...

Lovely day outside... sunshine and blue sky.. Revelling in the peace and plenty... Oh and I did not replace my old car

Choosing to live simply is just that; choosing, not going with the herd. deciding what to do...

Loving the way of life chosen. Happy that yes it does less harm than other ways
PS eat not beef and have never eaten an avocado..

suicide_circus

Graces7 wrote: »

:eek: and

I have not flown since I came to Ireland nearly 20 years ago. Nor been out of Ireland have no desire or need to. Holidays are not compulsory! Vastly overrated...

Lovely day outside... sunshine and blue sky.. Revelling in the peace and plenty... Oh and I did not replace my old car

Choosing to live simply is just that; choosing, not going with the herd. deciding what to do...

Loving the way of life chosen. Happy that yes it does less harm than other ways
PS eat not beef and have never eaten an avocado..

yes but with respect you are retired. some of us need holidays. do we need them to be foreign? No possibly not. But it is nice to visit friends and family abroad. very hard to put that genie back in the bottle.

whisky_galore

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I Stay Irish.

I’ve No patience for the cheap air fares lark

Tax the carrier. Tax the individual fares (green tax) and tax the daa itself. Make it completely uneconomic for huge amounts of routes in and out of Ireland.

Funnel that tax income into green solutions.

Let Irish ppl holiday local and as I say Skype is your friend for business trips.

I don't believe that'll ever be taxed because jobs and the economy. The govt would never turn our airports into howling wildernesses.
Many of the 'green solutions' make me laugh, might as well hook up a bicycle dynamo to the national grid.

Graces7

suicide_circus wrote: »

theres also more people, a smaller % of people in poverty, less infant mortality, less starvation, less war, less ignorance, less cruelty.

Oh so true. I am working on my family tree and found myself looking at the early years of the last century on cemetery records. My grandmother gave birth to nine and raised three... All my unknown aunts and uncles on the grave listings.

And look at any cemetery records to see the extent of infant mortality

although I would not paint such a rosy image as you do.

Beechwoodspark

It’s not hard

Just green tax the industry. Job done. Ppl will adapt and holiday here rather than Ibiza or wherever

NSAman

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Fyi


There’s more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere than any time in human history

In May, sensors at the Mauna Loa observatory in Hawaii – which has tracked Earth’s atmospheric concentration of CO2 since the late 1950s – detected a CO2 concentration of 415.26 ppm. The last time Earth's atmosphere contained this much CO2 was more than three million years ago, when sea levels were several metres higher and trees grew at the South Pole. Scientists have warned that carbon dioxide levels higher than 450ppm are likely to lock in catastrophic and irreversible changes in the climate. Around half of the CO2 emitted since 1750 has been in the last 40 years.

Those bloody humans caused that 3 million years ago too

Graces7

suicide_circus wrote: »

yes but with respect you are retired. some of us need holidays. do we need them to be foreign? No possibly not. But it is nice to visit friends and family abroad. very hard to put that genie back in the bottle.

No one needs a foreign holiday. It has become routine is all.. one of the things folk expect to have, like driving a car, having a TV, washing machine etc.

And yes I am retired but lived like this much of my life. Since the 1980s..

whisky_galore

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s not hard

Just green tax the industry. Job done. Ppl will adapt and holiday here rather than Ibiza or wherever

Good luck with that.

Beechwoodspark

Folks the alternative is a huge global rise in temps and all that entails

I honestly think ppl are not aware of what is going to come to pass if nothing is done

Have a read of the inhospitable earth by David Wallace wells if you are even slightly slightly curious.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

NSAman wrote: »

Those bloody humans caused that 3 million years ago too

The article isn’t saying that of course.