Air travel and tourism - are they doomed?

Roger_007 · 14-08-2019 06:21PM #1

So Greta Thunberg has set sail for America in a 16ft yacht. She wants to make a point about the contribution of air travel to CO2 and climate change.
She seems to have a lot of influence over the younger generation in particular. Will she succeed in convincing large numbers of people to stop travelling by air and thereby reverse the trend of ever increasing numbers flying hither and thither just because they can.
Ireland's tourist industry depends almost exclusively on cheap and frequent flights into and out of the country. Air fares can only be low if the volume of seats sold is high. We could see many airlines go out of business altogether.
Norwegian Air has just announced that they are stopping their transatlantic services from Ireland. Is this a sign of things to come?
If the anti-flying campaign promoted by Thunberg and others gains significant traction, our island economy, and especially the tourist industry, would be one of the first to suffer.

kneemos · 14-08-2019 06:25PM

All this environmental stuff is fine until you actually have to do something.

Few hippies might take the boat, otherwise it won't matter.

TheValeyard · 14-08-2019 06:25PM

Not a chance people will give up flying for holidays. No more trips to Spanish beaches or shopping in NYC?

Virtue signaling is flying high, actually following through is a different thing.

is_that_so · 14-08-2019 06:29PM

Overtourism might hit it first. There will be higher carbon taxes on flights but we'll adjust to the fare increases over time.

whisky_galore · 14-08-2019 06:30PM

Norwegian stopped flying that route because low cost transatlantic doesn't work. That and the problems with the grounded MAX but do go on...

kneemos · 14-08-2019 06:35PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Overtourism might hit it first. There will be higher carbon taxes on flights but we'll adjust to the fare increases over time.

Don't see carbon taxes being imposed on flights. Tourism is big business.
If it is it'll be negligible.

Capt'n Midnight · 14-08-2019 11:58PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

So Greta Thunberg has set sail for America in a 16ft yacht. She wants to make a point about the contribution of air travel to CO2 and climate change.

First of all it's 60ft not 16ft.
That's two double decker buses long.

Costs start around €4m so construction would have had a massive carbon foot print and needs a round the clock crew.

Completely unsustainable. It's a publicity stunt.

murpho999 · 14-08-2019 11:59PM

How is she getting home when she's finished?

ToddyDoody · 15-08-2019 12:01AM

Electric airplanes that don't go on fire. Sorted.

Water John · 15-08-2019 12:03AM

I think flight contributes 2.5% of GHG total. I think we''l look at all aspects of life and make some changes. I wouldn't see holidays by flight changing much. The regular weekends away that have come with low cost airlines could and should be reduced.

Stephen15 · 15-08-2019 12:09AM

As a part of the younger generation I don't think the likes of Greta Thunberg have any influence on me or any of my mates. I honestly don't think most people care or care enough to actually do something. I can't say I know anyone who is a vocal supporter of hers I get the impression most lads are into sport particularly soccer and most girls are into things like Love Island certainly not much interest in the enviroment.

Most of it is complete bs that is blaming ordinary people for climate change (which I'm skeptical about) and not big corporations who are responsible for most of the pollution and developing countries like India and China. Also the hypocrites who believe it is better for the enviroment to eat avocados imported from South America than Irish beef.

branie2 · 15-08-2019 12:13AM

No

kneemos · 15-08-2019 05:12AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

First of all it's 60ft not 16ft.
That's two double decker buses long.

Costs start around €4m so construction would have had a massive carbon foot print and needs a round the clock crew.

Completely unsustainable. It's a publicity stunt.

It's hard to win with this enviromentalism when you put yourself up as a shining example, unless you stay at home and eat cabbages you've grown yourself.

Taking a boat to America is just stupid though, and dangerous.

Vic_08 · 15-08-2019 06:45AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

As a part of the younger generation I think the likes of Greta Thunberg have any influence on me or any of my mates. I honestly don't think most people care or care enough to actually do something. I can't say I know anyone who is a vocal supporter of hers I get the impression most lads are into sport particularly soccer and most girls are into things like Love Island certainly not much interest in the enviroment.

Most of it is complete bs that is blaming ordinary people for climate change (which I'm skeptical about) and not big corporations who are responsible for most of the pollution and developing countries like India and China. Also the hypocrites who believe it is better for the enviroment to eat avocados imported from South America than Irish beef.

Yeah, that was my choice for dinner yesterday; steak or an avocado. :rolleyes:

BTW it is correct to say that a vegetarian diet has a far lower resource footprint than a meat based one, in particular cattle farming is very inefficient. That is still true for produce sourced across the globe as long as it is transported by sea not air.

The biggest hypocrisy is people choosing to believe that which just happens to validate their lifestyle choices. Laying blame at developing countries who are simply apeing western consumerism when we have been vastly higher users of resources for over a century is both ignorant and reprehensible, sure the world would be just fine if those dirt poor peasants didn't have ideas above their station.

screamer · 15-08-2019 07:14AM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Yeah, that was my choice for dinner yesterday; steak or an avocado. :rolleyes:

BTW it is correct to say that a vegetarian diet has a far lower resource footprint than a meat based one, in particular cattle farming is very inefficient. That is still true for produce sourced across the globe as long as it is transported by sea not air.

The biggest hypocrisy is people choosing to believe that which just happens to validate their lifestyle choices. Laying blame at developing countries who are simply apeing western consumerism when we have been vastly higher users of resources for over a century is both ignorant and reprehensible, sure the world would be just fine if those dirt poor peasants didn't have ideas above their station.

Countries like China and India are you joking? Their production activities are destroying the environment on a huge scale. 1 billion strong populations.... millions of factories, coal burning power stations, air they can’t even breathe due to pollution. Have a think about that.

Back on topic yes I think taxes are needed to stop stupid flights. Weekends in America.etc. utter BS, so people can buy clothes cheaply and cost the environment dearly. I’ve no problem with taxes on these at all.

Podge_irl · 15-08-2019 07:25AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Most of it is complete bs that is blaming ordinary people for climate change (which I'm skeptical about) and not big corporations who are responsible for most of the pollution

This is akin to blaming British Airways for flight emissions and saying its nothing to do with the regular passenger. The big corporations produce these emissions in order to fulfil the needs/desires of ordinary people.

Of course it is a publicity stunt, but what exactly is wrong with that? There is no (serious) suggestion you need to stop travelling completely - just maybe give a bit of extra thought to whether you really need to fly somewhere when booking it.

elefant · 15-08-2019 07:26AM

A couple of flights from Knock to Malaga isn't going to tip the scales on turning the earth into a fiery deathball.

I'd be slightly less sympathetic towards businessmen flying for day trips between Europe and Japan 40 times a year.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 15-08-2019 07:29AM

They’ll invent electric planes in a few years time so it’ll be grand.

ceadaoin. · 15-08-2019 07:34AM

screamer wrote: »

Countries like China and India are you joking? Their production activities are destroying the environment on a huge scale. 1 billion strong populations.... millions of factories, coal burning power stations, air they can’t even breathe due to pollution. Have a think about that.

Back on topic yes I think taxes are needed to stop stupid flights. Weekends in America.etc. utter BS, so people can buy clothes cheaply and cost the environment dearly. I’ve no problem with taxes on these at all.

How do you decide what is a "stupid flight"? Most of those flights to and from America are also full of people going on business trips or to see family and not just people going to buy cheap clothes (do people really do that though?). Is that also stupid? I suppose those people should just give up their jobs or never see their families again. It still won't make any difference though will it?

AndyBoBandy · 15-08-2019 07:43AM

kneemos wrote: »

Taking a boat to America is just stupid though, and dangerous.

How so?

The boat in question is an IMOCA 60, designed for solo racing around the world (non stop) in the Vendeé Globe race which takes place every couple of years. A trip from England to America on one of these boats (fully crewed by the way) is the equivalent of driving down to your local Tesco with your mates in the car with you.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 15-08-2019 07:46AM

Water John wrote: »

I think flight contributes 2.5% of GHG total. I think we''l look at all aspects of life and make some changes. I wouldn't see holidays by flight changing much. The regular weekends away that have come with low cost airlines could and should be reduced.

Give everybody 1-2 short haul flights a year?

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 15-08-2019 07:47AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How do you decide what is a "stupid flight"? Most of those flights to and from America are also full of people going on business trips or to see family and not just people going to buy cheap clothes (do people really do that though?). Is that also stupid? I suppose those people should just give up their jobs or never see their families again. It still won't make any difference though will it?

Skype calls. FTW.

screamer · 15-08-2019 07:48AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How do you decide what is a "stupid flight"? Most of those flights to and from America are also full of people going on business trips or to see family and not just people going to buy cheap clothes (do people really do that though?). Is that also stupid? I suppose those people should just give up their jobs or never see their families again. It still won't make any difference though will it?

Stupid trips then. Anything with a 2 to 3 day return, tax the ticket, the further it is the more it’s taxed Easy enough to do. Yes people do go on weekend trips with the main purpose to buy clothes, where have you been living?

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 15-08-2019 07:49AM

Vic_08 wrote: »

Yeah, that was my choice for dinner yesterday; steak or an avocado. :rolleyes:

BTW it is correct to say that a vegetarian diet has a far lower resource footprint than a meat based one, in particular cattle farming is very inefficient. That is still true for produce sourced across the globe as long as it is transported by sea not air.

The biggest hypocrisy is people choosing to believe that which just happens to validate their lifestyle choices. Laying blame at developing countries who are simply apeing western consumerism when we have been vastly higher users of resources for over a century is both ignorant and reprehensible, sure the world would be just fine if those dirt poor peasants didn't have ideas above their station.

Hmm, a resource footprint is not the same as a carbon footprint is it? If we could stop methane emission from cattle it would be a fairly benign form of agriculture in countries like Ireland, where cows eat grass.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 15-08-2019 07:50AM

screamer wrote: »

Stupid trips then. Anything with a 2 to 3 day return, tax the ticket, the further it is the more it’s taxed Easy enough to do. Yes people do go on weekend trips with the main purpose to buy clothes, where have you been living?

Taxes won’t work. Only rationing will work.

titan18 · 15-08-2019 07:52AM

screamer wrote: »

Countries like China and India are you joking? Their production activities are destroying the environment on a huge scale. 1 billion strong populations.... millions of factories, coal burning power stations, air they can’t even breathe due to pollution. Have a think about that.

Back on topic yes I think taxes are needed to stop stupid flights. Weekends in America.etc. utter BS, so people can buy clothes cheaply and cost the environment dearly. I’ve no problem with taxes on these at all.

Per person, the US are by far a higher producer of carbon emissions than India or China tbf. India are also investing heavily in solar power, and are doing a lot to get their population out of poverty which should help to lower birth rates.

suicide_circus · 15-08-2019 07:58AM

We're all environmentalists....until it requires us to hinder our standard of living and forego our little luxuries.

I think it'll take some profoundly disastrous ecological event with millions dead for people to change their ways.

Our societies and economies are based on over consumption and disposability.

Jimbob1977 · 15-08-2019 08:09AM

It's like when a music festival promotes environmentalism and caring for the planet.

The next morning.... tons of rubbish discarded everywhere.

"Someone else will pick it up"

angel eyes 2012 · 15-08-2019 08:20AM

This is why I question the actual environmental impact that restricting the use of cars makes in the overall scheme of things. In my workplace, I observe that most of the cyclists tend to be the most prolific users of long haul flights to places like Vietnam, Thailand and Australia. Admittedly, this is purely anecdotal and I’d have to see the science to really determine the argument that cars are having such a negative impact on our cities when the cumulative effect of cows and planes are completely undoing any environmental benefit of curbing the use of vehicles.

suicide_circus · 15-08-2019 08:34AM

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

This is why I question the actual environmental impact that restricting the use of cars makes in the overall scheme of things. In my workplace, I observe that most of the cyclists tend to be the most prolific users of long haul flights to places like Vietnam, Thailand and Australia. Admittedly, this is purely anecdotal

I can absolutely second your anecdotal observations

Beechwoodspark · 15-08-2019 08:35AM

Very much hope the cheap flights booked on a whim market is doomed

Need to tax the hell out of it so that the taxes can be put into green solutions.

Let Irish ppl go on eco tourism holidays in donegal or the wild Atlantic way and not hopping on Ryan air flights to Alicante

Air travel and tourism - are they doomed?

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