The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

tritium wrote: »

The same way you seem to think it’s been a fair competition with Kerry and Mayo having 2 to 3 x the income of their competitors I guess. The same way you seem to think it’s been a fair competition when Kerry’s 2019 income appears to be on par or better than dublins. The same way you think it’s been a fair competition when some counties have had 30 years of lucrative commercial arrangements.

So you can't answer the question without resorting to whataboutery. That says everything. The games up, the financial disparity is indefensible. Now, you're not going to accept this and many Dubs won't either and that's understandable. It's not an easy thing to accept but we all have to introduce major changes so our games can have a healthy future. This will involve the possibility of caps on spending, pooled sponsorship, it will have to involve an increase in funding to many counties and also splitting Dublin into 4 which will lead to a change in structures as well.

This will leave us with 35 counties with appropriate funding to promote and develop Gaelic games within their county, to improve structures in clubs nationwide and an equal opportunity to compete in inter county competitions. All with a newly designed championship structures. It's an exciting time and the hunger is there for these radical changes.

flasher0030 wrote: »

You can take that back, sonny boy. I was on Hill 16 with a Dublin scarf, shouting that ball over the bar at the end. I've lived in Dublin for more than half my life, played with a Dublin club for 15 years (albeit junior level), and now train the kids (including my own) at the local Dublin club. That win was the most memorable atmosphere of anything that I was ever at. I can only imagine what it was like for a true Dub.
I didn't "go through it" because it was Dublin. It was on TG4 and I just caught the end of it. Didn't even know it was scheduled.
I'm just saying it became very apparent that at the end, Dublin really got the rub of the green. Do you disagree with me? What points in particular do you disagree with.
And out of interest what was said in 1995 that allowed Dublin to win same. What conspiracies. I don't remember to be honest.

I do have my own thoughts on the funding alright and I have previously commented on them here. But at the end of the day we all have opinions. And they are not massively important.

When all else fails, the begrudgery line or the anti Dublin line gets thrown out. It's a victim complex that is totally misplaced. If any other county had been over funded by the governing body of our sport for 2 decades, there would be calls for action to be taken with them also.

tritium

gourcuff wrote: »

it would actually be a great even championship especially in leinster if dublin were not involved, or got knocked out in the first round (chances a thousand to one)... this year i assume will be another farce with no reform and business as usual

Without dublin it would just be Kerry with a monopoly. Take them out and it’s probably a Mayo monopoly. Leinster would just return to a meaningless sideshow that never bothered anyone come September. Tbh if you want a balanced championship you need to fix a lot more than dublins role

Ask any county in Leinster would they prefer to win the provincial championship or the all Ireland and I'd imagine every one of them would say the latter.
You could actually get to the all Ireland final without winning Leinster or meeting Dublin along the way.
Kildare got to the super 8s in 2018 without having to play Dublin, it wasn't Dublin's fault they didn't get any further.
Dublin could win the next 10 leinsters, it still wouldn't stop any other county in Leinster from winning the all Ireland.

gourcuff

ooter wrote: »

Ask any county in Leinster would they prefer to win the provincial championship or the all Ireland and I'd imagine every one of them would say the latter.
You could actually get to the all Ireland final without winning Leinster or meeting Dublin along the way.
Kildare got to the super 8s in 2018 without having to play Dublin, it wasn't Dublin's fault they didn't get any further.
Dublin could win the next 10 leinsters, it still wouldn't stop any other county in Leinster from winning the all Ireland.

There have been some player accounts and former player accounts of the demoralising impact one team winning 15/16 titles has had on Leinster, i don't think you can ignore that.

Leinster should never have had byes into the later rounds either, open draw every year.

gourcuff

tritium wrote: »

Without dublin it would just be Kerry with a monopoly. Take them out and it’s probably a Mayo monopoly. Leinster would just return to a meaningless sideshow that never bothered anyone come September. Tbh if you want a balanced championship you need to fix a lot more than dublins role

Complete nonsense, the rest of the counties have not been financially doped (in addition to their myriad of other advantages) and its far more competitive, kerry and mayo cant play every game at home to get to win an all ireland either.

Ros and Galway can beat mayo.
Cork can beat Kerry.
Practically everyone in ulster can beat each other.

Ulster champs can beat mayo and kerry.
mayo can regularly beat kerry.

Dublin got to the all Ireland semi final without winning Leinster in 2010, it can be done.

dobman88

ooter wrote: »

Dublin got to the all Ireland semi final without winning Leinster in 2010, it can be done.

And cork won the all Ireland that year without even contesting the Munster final which was between Kerry and Limerick.

I gave up listening to wooly's pod a while ago but I'm glad I listened to that episode with Connellan, a lad called Gary Keegan was mentioned who I have to admit I never heard of before.
Interestingly enough he was involved with the Dublin hurlers the year they won Leinster in 2013.
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2019/11/15/news/gary-keegan-1764837/

tritium

gourcuff wrote: »

Complete nonsense, the rest of the counties have not been financially doped (in addition to their myriad of other advantages) and its far more competitive, kerry and mayo cant play every game at home to get to win an all ireland either.

Ros and Galway can beat mayo.
Cork can beat Kerry.
Practically everyone in ulster can beat each other.

Ulster champs can beat mayo and kerry.
mayo can regularly beat kerry.

I hate to disappoint you but the history of the championship doesn’t support your contention. Cork pulling an ambush this year doesn’t dampen the dominance of Kerry in Munster. Mayo can at least nod to Galway but the reality is Galway haven’t been competitive at the business end for two decades- Mayo have contested 7 finals in that time

Mayo would hand back every Connaught they've won in the last 20 years for 1 all Ireland and the back door would've allowed them to do that.
They actually got to the final in 2016 and 17 through the back door.

thesultan

Dublin are full time athletes but hurling is another thing who being supremely fit alone won't do. Hence the Dublin hurlers are a long way off..

rebel girl 15

Enquiring wrote: »

When all else fails, the begrudgery line or the anti Dublin line gets thrown out. It's a victim complex that is totally misplaced. If any other county had been over funded by the governing body of our sport for 2 decades, there would be calls for action to be taken with them also.

But that's exactly what it is right now and also this 21st century culture of I want it now, I want immediate change and having not a clue about the complexities of it all. When Kilkenny were on top there was moans from people outside about their dominance, same with the Kerry footballers, same with the Cork ladies.

Why is this argument only recent - your posts keep harping on about two decades of funding. Why is it only in the last two years that we have posters jumping on the bandwagon oh for the good of the game and the survival of Gaelic football etc etc etc.

I said it 12 years ago about Dublin, looking enviously at the Games Development happening there, I used a lot of their resources in my coaching. If Dublin got their act together (which they did), they were always going to be successful, weight of numbers if nothing else. GAA was sliding downwards in terms of participation rates in the capital, and the Dublin GAA chair at the time saw an opportunity to get funding from the ISC, an opportunity open to all and they took it - but the basic argument being made TIME and TIME again on here is that money = success. It doesn't. It helps, but doesn't guarantee the success like the Dublin footballers have had, and no acknowledgment of the work and effort it takes to get there.

The argument is ridiculous and frankly that statement above is incorrect given that the funding doesn't all come from the GAA, it may be transferred through the GAA but the ISC/SI funding cannot be touched by the GAA - old coals keep getting raked over, especially in your posts, and no acknowledgement of the changes that are coming in place and the fact that these changes will take time to come through, exactly like the Dublin changes took time to come through, but they will. The funding has been decreased in Dublin and hugely increased in other Leinster counties, it is not going to have an overnight impact but it will have an impact - as stated, it has taken at least a decade for the work in Dublin to have an impact.

I've said it before about how to effect change in the GAA - the structures are there and have been there for years. But keep posting on here and going around in circles and getting nowhere - this idea of "public pressure" forcing change never happens. I'm bowing out of this thread now, if anyone wants to DM me for advice about how to work on effecting change, feel free.

thesultan wrote: »

Dublin are full time athletes but hurling is another thing who being supremely fit alone won't do. Hence the Dublin hurlers are a long way off..

No they are not, you know that, but it will get a reaction. They are teachers, doctors, physios, work in finance. But hey, you knew that. Your statement is a lie.

Rosita

thesultan wrote: »

Dublin are full time athletes

Really? So none of them have jobs? Can you give a few examples and what their arrangements are then? How are they funded etc?

thesultan wrote: »

Dublin are full time athletes but hurling is another thing who being supremely fit alone won't do. Hence the Dublin hurlers are a long way off..

What else do the hurlers in Dublin need to do, surely lads receiving professional coaching for the guts of 20 years should be as good as anyone out there now, if not better?

ShyMets

ArielAtom wrote: »

No they are not, you know that, but it will get a reaction. They are teachers, doctors, physios, work in finance. But hey, you knew that. Your statement is a lie.

I've seen this suggested a few times. To my mind this is not only a lie but a tactic used to tarnish the players achievements.

I have yet to see a single iota of proof but forward to back up this assertion and frankly without such proof I do not believe posters should be allowed to put forward this claim

ShyMets wrote: »

I've seen this suggested a few times. To my mind this is not only a lie but a tactic used to tarnish the players achievements.

I have yet to see a single iota of proof but forward to back up this assertion and frankly without such proof I do not believe posters should be allowed to put forward this claim

Look it is just a poster looking for a reaction. He got it, he feels great now. But a lie is a lie, no matter how they dress it up. There is another word for it, but its against the forum charter, hence I will not use it.

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Why is this argument only recent - your posts keep harping on about two decades of funding. Why is it only in the last two years that we have posters jumping on the bandwagon oh for the good of the game and the survival of Gaelic football etc etc etc.

Most of the country hoped/thought that Dublin wouldn't do 3 in a row but when they did people started sweating, then they got 4 and people got really worried and then 5 and the meltdown was complete.

SheepsClothing

ooter wrote: »

Most of the country hoped/thought that Dublin wouldn't do 3 in a row but when they did people started sweating, then they got 4 and people got really worried and then 5 and the meltdown was complete.

It's people who want Dublin to continue fielding a single team who should be worried now. After every All Ireland the calls for change have been getting louder. With no end to the dominance in sight those same calls are going to be deafening in a few years time.

superbluedub

thesultan wrote: »

Dublin are full time athletes but hurling is another thing who being supremely fit alone won't do. Hence the Dublin hurlers are a long way off..

What a bitter nonsense post .

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

But that's exactly what it is right now and also this 21st century culture of I want it now, I want immediate change and having not a clue about the complexities of it all. When Kilkenny were on top there was moans from people outside about their dominance, same with the Kerry footballers, same with the Cork ladies.

Why is this argument only recent - your posts keep harping on about two decades of funding. Why is it only in the last two years that we have posters jumping on the bandwagon oh for the good of the game and the survival of Gaelic football etc etc etc.

I said it 12 years ago about Dublin, looking enviously at the Games Development happening there, I used a lot of their resources in my coaching. If Dublin got their act together (which they did), they were always going to be successful, weight of numbers if nothing else. GAA was sliding downwards in terms of participation rates in the capital, and the Dublin GAA chair at the time saw an opportunity to get funding from the ISC, an opportunity open to all and they took it - but the basic argument being made TIME and TIME again on here is that money = success. It doesn't. It helps, but doesn't guarantee the success like the Dublin footballers have had, and no acknowledgment of the work and effort it takes to get there.

The argument is ridiculous and frankly that statement above is incorrect given that the funding doesn't all come from the GAA, it may be transferred through the GAA but the ISC/SI funding cannot be touched by the GAA - old coals keep getting raked over, especially in your posts, and no acknowledgement of the changes that are coming in place and the fact that these changes will take time to come through, exactly like the Dublin changes took time to come through, but they will. The funding has been decreased in Dublin and hugely increased in other Leinster counties, it is not going to have an overnight impact but it will have an impact - as stated, it has taken at least a decade for the work in Dublin to have an impact.

I've said it before about how to effect change in the GAA - the structures are there and have been there for years. But keep posting on here and going around in circles and getting nowhere - this idea of "public pressure" forcing change never happens. I'm bowing out of this thread now, if anyone wants to DM me for advice about how to work on effecting change, feel free.

So a lot of people have been discussing the over funding of Dublin for a long time now. And like you and others have done there and previously, calling these people whingers, moaners, anti Dublin, jealous etc has been a common tactic from the start. It's an effort to silence debate on the topic. Other tactics include a huge level of whataboutery, whatabout kilkenny, whatabout Kerry, whatabout this county building a stadium, whatabout that county with a centre of excellence. Then of course, there's a huge amount of abuse thrown at anyone who has the cheek to question the millions pumped into Dublin GAA. If an individual posts about it on social media, if a radio program dares to cover the topic, if a player mentions it in an interview etc they will be bombarded with abuse.

Why the calls for change are growing now is because the senior footballers are gaining all the headlines and people are realising just what happened here. The thing is, many people are unaware of the facts and just how much funding Dublin received. You posted numbers and used population stats yesterday for example. The money was for development of under 18's so using the entire population of Dublin is an incorrect measurement. The funding also hasn't been divided along population lines. There have been other untruths like the money was just for primary school children, the money had no effect on elite standards, it was only for a limited time etc. Dublin people don't even know the funding began in 2002.

The thing is, all the lies, abuse, deflection and so on is not working as well anymore. People are coping on to it. The money increased standards in Dublin across the board and the effect of the money can be seen clearly with unprecedented results at underage, winning titles at grades they never had before, hurling especially saw an incredible change and of course that has transferred to senior level. Dublin ladies are a clear example of that. But what you have ignored and what all the defenders of the financial disparity have zero argument against is the resources available to Dublin now. They have yearly income levels of 5 and 6 million higher than most counties. This is ever increasing and the funding scheme that was only available to Dublin has been a major player in these numbers.

I've stated on numerous occasions where the money came from. We can't mention his name but a former Taoiseach was involved to grant the government funds, the Leinster council and the GAA were also involved in the distribution of funds. Without GAA approval, this would not have gone ahead. The Strategic review committee drew up the plan that was implemented. At the same time of approving the development of Dublin GAA, HQ were rejecting funding applications from other counties.

With knowledge of this, the huge amount given to Dublin to develop standards and the resulting resources now available, close to 4 million spent on games development yearly for example, the only option left is to split Dublin in my view. The east Leinster project has already led to improved results but it should not be limited to a small number of counties. It should be spread nationwide. That and splitting Dublin are essential. Now, how to effect that change?

Spreading the actual facts to counteract the lies is key. Not being silenced by abuse, deflection and being called begrudgers is another important element. Media organisations will have to stand up to it especially. Next those in favour of change will have to make representation to our clubs and county boards. With the previous president of the GAA now replaced, the opportunity to get things moving has been improved. Momentum for radical change is growing among many counties. There are already plans to target the Congress next year. Getting the facts out there, getting publicity for the movement, outlining the benefits for all within the GAA must be done now. After that, we can see what happens.

SheepsClothing wrote: »

It's people who want Dublin to continue fielding a single team who should be worried now. After every All Ireland the calls for change have been getting louder. With no end to the dominance in sight those same calls are going to be deafening in a few years time.

Sorry, I typed a long post out but you summed it up in a much more concise fashion. The realisation that the status quo cannot continue is now becoming obvious to many.

I see the poor individual that tried to get a motion before congress was not so much an individual but a thinly veiled attempt by a county board to get the motion in play. They could not get their research done in time.

The address used by Connellan on his letter to every club chairman used this address:

Fair and Equal Funding for all GAA clubs
Cusack Park
Mullingar
Co Westmeath.

And the fact that not one Dublin club was included in his/their correspondence says it all about the motives. The GAA is a body, and like it or not Dublin clubs are members. He/they should have at the least included them as a matter of courtesy.

ArielAtom wrote: »

I see the poor individual that tried to get a motion before congress was not so much an individual but a thinly veiled attempt by a county board to get the motion in play. They could not get their research done in time.

The address used by Connellan on his letter to every club chairman used this address:

Fair and Equal Funding for all GAA clubs
Cusack Park
Mullingar
Co Westmeath.

And the fact that not one Dublin club was included in his/their correspondence says it all about the motives. The GAA is a body, and like it or not Dublin clubs are members. He/they should have at the least included them as a matter of courtesy.

The motion that's planned for congress next year is in relation to stopping funding for Dublin as they already have enough. I believe that funding should not be stopped, it should continue amongst the 4 new counties in our capital.

Although I disagree with the motion, the abuse John Connellan has received just for daring to raise this issue has been disgraceful. Not in the least bit surprising however.

the kelt

ArielAtom wrote: »

I see the poor individual that tried to get a motion before congress was not so much an individual but a thinly veiled attempt by a county board to get the motion in play. They could not get their research done in time.

The address used by Connellan on his letter to every club chairman used this address:

Fair and Equal Funding for all GAA clubs
Cusack Park
Mullingar
Co Westmeath.

And the fact that not one Dublin club was included in his/their correspondence says it all about the motives. The GAA is a body, and like it or not Dublin clubs are members. He/they should have at the least included them as a matter of courtesy.

You mean the motion he was never intending to bring to congress this year anyway?

hurling especially saw an incredible change and of course that has transferred to senior level

Nonsense, laois beat them in 2019.

the kelt wrote: »

You mean the motion he was never intending to bring to congress this year anyway?

Then why did he make a statement he was seeking the support of every club chair to get it to congress? He didn't bring it due to him not being prepared. A bit like his ill prepared debate with Mr Teehan. PPPPPP.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Then why did he make a statement he was seeking the support of every club chair to get it to congress? He didn't bring it due to him not being prepared. A bit like his ill prepared debate with Mr Teehan. PPPPPP.

This was the same debate in which Teehan had to admit to the huge impact the over funding of Dublin has had? Where he was using the total population of Dublin when trying to defend funding for under 18's? While also bringing up the random topic of land issues which is completely irrelevant to the huge resources made available for coaches?

I don't think John Connellan deserves abuse on Twitter just because he's making Dublin supporters uncomfortable.