Guardian of the Déise project - yes or no?

Harry Palmr

This looks appalling to my eyes albeit these renders probably don't do it any favours as it looks like a flipping Terminator (and even the grim reaper in that other pic below)

The best thing about it would be the apparent location over looking the
north quays from possibly just inside the Kilkenny border ("planning permission denied" ) .





http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/investment-secured-for-%E2%80%98guardian-of-the-deise%E2%80%99/

Private investment has been secured for the proposed ‘Guardian of the Déise’ project.

The substantial investment means plans by local wood carver John Hayes can now proceed to the next stage.A delighted John says he is “chuffed” to have secured backing from the private sector for the ambitious project.

As revealed in The Munster Express last year, John aims to create a 200ft high Guardian which will be situated at a height overlooking Waterford City.Possessing an interactive element, visitors will be able to enter the sculpture and climb through the Guardian’s body where they will be rewarded with a spectacular view across Waterford City and the surrounding region

Obviously that it would be privately funded is good thing as you'd be waiting
forever for a government dept to sanction monies from the Galway Arts Slush Fund account.

PTH2009

very good idea imo and will really be something to talk about and show off

Like the mothership in the Apple Market it will take time to get used to

Prob in the very early stages and may take sometime to get the full go ahead

From looking at the 2nd pic where is it going ??? would it be blocking the view of the ard dri (if that was to ever open up again) or is it going up there to replace that

vriesmays

A game changer.

tototoe

Not from Waterford, but that looks awful to me. Not sure I'd make a trip to see something like that, but each to their own.

vriesmays

Why would you not want to visit Ireland's minimum-wage capital.

invara

I love it... iconic. Reminds me of Antony Gormley stuff. Angel of the North or Exposure.

kayaksurfbum

It's a really cool idea. Build it now please.

Beechwoodspark

What is it meant to be ? Likes like a robot grim reaper

alta stare

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

What is it meant to be ? Likes like a robot grim reaper

Yeah the second picture doesnt look anyway appealing.

I like the idea i just dont think it needs to be so big.

deisemum

I like the idea but think those images look awful especially the second one.

Quigs Snr

I will take two please.

The chan chan man

I love it. As a structural engineer myselfInormally like to see exposed structure...but that big truss sword needs to be clad!!

BBM77

Think it is a great idea. It will be like the Viking triangle, other places will be copying it over the coming years.

jelutong

The only way of accessing that area is via the Ard Ri . Could be tricky as things stand.

realmoonunit

Its a hard yes from me. I love it, It takes a lot of courage to even propose something like this. Compare it to the prick in the brick on O Connell street and you will quickly realize, as monuments go, this is outstanding. Figuratively and literally!

Waterboy2014

Definite yes. Think it would have an international draw. Would be interesting to know how this would be received at a planning level?

hardybuck

Waterboy2014 wrote: »

Definite yes. Think it would have an international draw. Would be interesting to know how this would be received at a planning level?

If Johnny Ronan can't get planning permission to build 13 stories in Dublin's Docklands, then a structure of this height is highly unlikely to be allowed you'd imagine.

Johnboy1951

The chan chan man wrote: »

I love it. As a structural engineer myselfInormally like to see exposed structure...but that big truss sword needs to be clad!!

In the other pic it all seems to be clad including the sword?

Harry Palmr

Have they moved the county line on the Ard Ri site? - Bing maps shows it skirting north of the hotel structure, google shows it going through same.

Clearly that site will be developed with something or other at some point (is the legal battle for ownership/compo still ongoing?) and if there is 200 foot of structure and the support base right on front of the plateau then it's hard to see what else would go there - it would be completely dominated by the statue and it's shadow.

Johnboy1951

I see no good reason the Guardian should be in front of the present Árd Rí structure ..... it would be a disaster for the site and any future development there.

PTH2009

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I see no good reason the Guardian should be in front of the present Árd Rí structure ..... it would be a disaster for the site and any future development there.

Could they not knock that structure and build the guradian up in that area ???

That would be really cool but imagine not possible really

Muttley79

hardybuck wrote: »

If Johnny Ronan can't get planning permission to build 13 stories in Dublin's Docklands, then a structure of this height is highly unlikely to be allowed you'd imagine.

Agreed,22 million this is going to cost,it will be a long long time before this is paid back,the dublin spire cost 4 million and is twice the height of this proposal.at the moment it’s a private investor that has put x amount of money towards it,it’s going into a competition and if it wins it will then have sufficient funds to go do this,however I think this could prove to be a big headache for the council as they don’t like problems,firstly the public liability insurance to open this to the public is going to cost massive every year,we in this country can barely get insurance cover on bouncy castles,secondly the size of it will probably get knocked by the planning authority.something maybe 30/40 feet tall would be just as sufficient

StringerBell

Build all the giant monuments.

jelutong

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could they not knock that structure and build the guradian up in that area ???

That would be really cool but imagine not possible really

My guess is that it's the brainchild of the owner of the Ard Ri .

Captain Red Beard

StringerBell wrote: »

Build all the giant monuments.

This is the correct answer.

bullpost

These type of statement structures have worked really well in other cities - Guggenheim in Bilbao and giant Buddha in Hong Kong are two examples.

Wanderer2010

Have the Guardian holding a big sign that says "Heart attack victims this way" and point towards the Cork Road...

Because we 100% will not have 24/7 cardiac by then.

Christy Browne

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Have the Guardian holding a big sign that says "Heart attack victims this way" and point towards the Cork Road...

Because we 100% will not have 24/7 cardiac by then.

So we're not allowed do anything to improve the City until we get 24/7 cardiac care?

vriesmays

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

debok

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

Yes stop everything ,all spending until the 206 billion is paid off. You don't give a ****e about what is owed. It's because it's in Waterford that your against it Could be any project. What happened you in Waterford anyway. did you slip in red square or did someone tell you to hang your balls off the clock tower? Let it out man everyone is here to help you

Franz Von Peppercorn II

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

Yes.

Next question?

JohnC.

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

What countries don't owe anything? And if this is privately funded, what difference does it make to the nations debt?

jmcc

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

Owed by whom? The Irish people or a bunch of scumbag banksters and traitorous politicians?

In darker mood, I'd advocate building it and commissioning it by annointing it with the blood of every bankster and politician that betrayed Ireland and the Irish people in a sort of red Wicker man ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man ) celebration and selling the PPV rights globally. But luckily, I'm in a good mood so I just think that it should be built.

Regards...jmcc

vriesmays

JohnC. wrote: »

What countries don't owe anything? And if this is privately funded, what difference does it make to the nations debt?

If it's privately funded then Waterford will be even more of a laughing stock. 22 million for a stupid statue in a town with high unemployment and full of poorly-paid jobs. Who's funding this.

debok

vriesmays wrote: »

If it's privately funded then Waterford will be even more of a laughing stock. 22 million for a stupid statue in a town with high unemployment and full of poorly-paid jobs. Who's funding this.

Why do you care? If it's privately funded tis none of your business.

alta stare

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

Somebody must of broke your heart in our fair city because you are a seriously bitter person. Dont let such a thing taint how you feel toward Waterford. It is a nice place. Be happy not bitter.

Wanderer2010

Christy Browne wrote: »

So we're not allowed do anything to improve the City until we get 24/7 cardiac care?

The maths make no sense. Money for 200feet statues and swanky hotels but not basic cardiac care? Stupid.

914

vriesmays wrote: »

If it's privately funded then Waterford will be even more of a laughing stock. 22 million for a stupid statue in a town with high unemployment and full of poorly-paid jobs. Who's funding this.

Full of poorly paid jobs?

You obvisiouly don't realise the amount of tech and pharma industry in Waterford.


Tech - sunlife, se2, redhat, threefold, tssg, routematch, bluefin, archlabs, errigal, distilled, fundrecs just to name a few.

Pharma - West, sanofi, bausch and lomb, Ivax again just to name a few.

As well as the above you also have larger employment in the public sector here, land registry, hse, tax etc...

Thankfully a lot of non poorly paid roles and companies exist in Waterford and the region

I think you will find Waterford isn't full of poorly paid jobs as you say.

914

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The maths make no sense. Money for 200feet statues and swanky hotels but not basic cardiac care? Stupid.

Its called private investment!

Deiseen

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The maths make no sense. Money for 200feet statues and swanky hotels but not basic cardiac care? Stupid.

It's private investment....

Wanderer2010

Deiseen wrote: »

It's private investment....

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

914

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

Surely if we have all this private investment Waterford will continue to grow increasing more of a need for 24/7 cardiac care?

Also who's to say we won't have 24/7 by the time all these projects are complete?

24/7 is a whole other discussion which I fully support so lets get back on topic and discuss the guardian of the Déise

Deiseen

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

Surely an increase in tourism, population and business makes the case for 24/7 Cardiac care in Waterford undeniable?

Wanderer2010

914 wrote: »

Surely if we have all this private investment Waterford will continue to grow increasing more of a need for 24/7 cardiac care?

Also who's to say we won't have 24/7 by the time all these projects are complete?

24/7 is a whole other discussion which I fully support so lets get back on topic and discuss the guardian of the Déise

You cant separate the two issues at all. Anyone with common sense is going to ask "How come there is such huge investment in statues and North Quays etc, when we have such an appalling cardiac care in the local hospital?". Its akin to putting an enormous gold plated statue of Buddha in the middle of an extremely poor African (or wherever) city. It jars and it makes no sense to me. When we have the basics of this city covered, and we are getting there slowly, THEN talk about cliff faces and statues.

mayordenis

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

You start by saying 'I heard that already' and then the whole post is about not getting it.

It is private businesses who are doing the 'shopping centres' because they want to generate further wealth - it is that simple. And I absolutely never want cardiac care to become something that is behind a paywall.

I don't think there is much info out there on who is funding this project, but I can't see any validity in conflating the funding of this with the HSE and in general central government not funding 24/7 cardiac care in Waterford.

It's just the usual mad whingy nonsense in here.

914

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You cant separate the two issues at all. Anyone with common sense is going to ask "How come there is such huge investment in statues and North Quays etc, when we have such an appalling cardiac care in the local hospital?". Its akin to putting an enormous gold plated statue of Buddha in the middle of an extremely poor African (or wherever) city. It jars and it makes no sense to me. When we have the basics of this city covered, and we are getting there slowly, THEN talk about cliff faces and statues.

So the solution would be that we should refuse all private investment into Waterford until the government get their house in order with Waterford?

mayordenis

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You cant separate the two issues at all.

Absolutely wrong - they are unrelated other than they are both Waterford related. They have no other commonality.

55Percent

Looks ridiculous, i hoped as i read through the post it would be come apparent this is a late april fools joke.

Johnboy1951

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

Yes it does look completely unbalanced ...... in a HUGE way.

What it does most effectively is highlight the utter lack of investment by our government in critical services in the South East.

The more we get visible signs of private investment the more likely the government will be forced to mend their ways!

So what we need is a few more of these obvious signs of private investment.

I wonder what would look really good as a replacement for the Árd Rí?

Something flash and modern that stands out and yells

"Look at us, support the South East"

Wanderer2010

914 wrote: »

So the solution would be that we should refuse all private investment into Waterford until the government get their house in order with Waterford?

Not at all but have the dots ready to be joined- work on getting cardiac care 24/7 ready for all these new potential visitors to the city. If building 5 Star hotels, ensure you have your target audience and you will get enough people to visit. Each new development needs to compliment the other.

hardybuck

My understanding of this is that private funding been secured to allow the project to progress to the planning stage. It looks to me like public funding would be required for a substantial portion of the project costs - because realistically what private investor could make a return on that type of investment?

Failte Ireland have a three year programme that has €150m in funding that they're hoping to tap into. However, that's for projects across the country, so it's highly unlikely they'll get to draw down anywhere close to €22m.

I think the Cliffs of Moher got €10m for their visitor centre and associated facilities - so something like €5-10m might be realistic yardstick.