Guardian of the Déise project - yes or no?

JohnC.

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

What countries don't owe anything? And if this is privately funded, what difference does it make to the nations debt?

jmcc

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

Owed by whom? The Irish people or a bunch of scumbag banksters and traitorous politicians?

In darker mood, I'd advocate building it and commissioning it by annointing it with the blood of every bankster and politician that betrayed Ireland and the Irish people in a sort of red Wicker man ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man ) celebration and selling the PPV rights globally. But luckily, I'm in a good mood so I just think that it should be built.

Regards...jmcc

vriesmays

JohnC. wrote: »

What countries don't owe anything? And if this is privately funded, what difference does it make to the nations debt?

If it's privately funded then Waterford will be even more of a laughing stock. 22 million for a stupid statue in a town with high unemployment and full of poorly-paid jobs. Who's funding this.

debok

vriesmays wrote: »

If it's privately funded then Waterford will be even more of a laughing stock. 22 million for a stupid statue in a town with high unemployment and full of poorly-paid jobs. Who's funding this.

Why do you care? If it's privately funded tis none of your business.

alta stare

vriesmays wrote: »

You think building a stupid statue for €22 million when the country owes €206 billion will improve Waterford.

Somebody must of broke your heart in our fair city because you are a seriously bitter person. Dont let such a thing taint how you feel toward Waterford. It is a nice place. Be happy not bitter.

Wanderer2010

Christy Browne wrote: »

So we're not allowed do anything to improve the City until we get 24/7 cardiac care?

The maths make no sense. Money for 200feet statues and swanky hotels but not basic cardiac care? Stupid.

914

vriesmays wrote: »

If it's privately funded then Waterford will be even more of a laughing stock. 22 million for a stupid statue in a town with high unemployment and full of poorly-paid jobs. Who's funding this.

Full of poorly paid jobs?

You obvisiouly don't realise the amount of tech and pharma industry in Waterford.


Tech - sunlife, se2, redhat, threefold, tssg, routematch, bluefin, archlabs, errigal, distilled, fundrecs just to name a few.

Pharma - West, sanofi, bausch and lomb, Ivax again just to name a few.

As well as the above you also have larger employment in the public sector here, land registry, hse, tax etc...

Thankfully a lot of non poorly paid roles and companies exist in Waterford and the region

I think you will find Waterford isn't full of poorly paid jobs as you say.

914

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The maths make no sense. Money for 200feet statues and swanky hotels but not basic cardiac care? Stupid.

Its called private investment!

Deiseen

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The maths make no sense. Money for 200feet statues and swanky hotels but not basic cardiac care? Stupid.

It's private investment....

Wanderer2010

Deiseen wrote: »

It's private investment....

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

914

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

Surely if we have all this private investment Waterford will continue to grow increasing more of a need for 24/7 cardiac care?

Also who's to say we won't have 24/7 by the time all these projects are complete?

24/7 is a whole other discussion which I fully support so lets get back on topic and discuss the guardian of the Déise

Deiseen

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

Surely an increase in tourism, population and business makes the case for 24/7 Cardiac care in Waterford undeniable?

Wanderer2010

914 wrote: »

Surely if we have all this private investment Waterford will continue to grow increasing more of a need for 24/7 cardiac care?

Also who's to say we won't have 24/7 by the time all these projects are complete?

24/7 is a whole other discussion which I fully support so lets get back on topic and discuss the guardian of the Déise

You cant separate the two issues at all. Anyone with common sense is going to ask "How come there is such huge investment in statues and North Quays etc, when we have such an appalling cardiac care in the local hospital?". Its akin to putting an enormous gold plated statue of Buddha in the middle of an extremely poor African (or wherever) city. It jars and it makes no sense to me. When we have the basics of this city covered, and we are getting there slowly, THEN talk about cliff faces and statues.

mayordenis

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

You start by saying 'I heard that already' and then the whole post is about not getting it.

It is private businesses who are doing the 'shopping centres' because they want to generate further wealth - it is that simple. And I absolutely never want cardiac care to become something that is behind a paywall.

I don't think there is much info out there on who is funding this project, but I can't see any validity in conflating the funding of this with the HSE and in general central government not funding 24/7 cardiac care in Waterford.

It's just the usual mad whingy nonsense in here.

914

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You cant separate the two issues at all. Anyone with common sense is going to ask "How come there is such huge investment in statues and North Quays etc, when we have such an appalling cardiac care in the local hospital?". Its akin to putting an enormous gold plated statue of Buddha in the middle of an extremely poor African (or wherever) city. It jars and it makes no sense to me. When we have the basics of this city covered, and we are getting there slowly, THEN talk about cliff faces and statues.

So the solution would be that we should refuse all private investment into Waterford until the government get their house in order with Waterford?

mayordenis

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You cant separate the two issues at all.

Absolutely wrong - they are unrelated other than they are both Waterford related. They have no other commonality.

55Percent

Looks ridiculous, i hoped as i read through the post it would be come apparent this is a late april fools joke.

Johnboy1951

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I heard that already but it still looks incredibly unbalanced when you can have a massive cultural statue to welcome visitors to Waterford, as well as elaborate shopping centres and hotels, but by the same vein and in the same city, you need to go to Cork for heart attacks after 5pm. That leaves a very bad aftertaste. You naturally presume cities that can afford luxury has a decent or at least adequate health system and not the third world system we have in UHW.

Yes it does look completely unbalanced ...... in a HUGE way.

What it does most effectively is highlight the utter lack of investment by our government in critical services in the South East.

The more we get visible signs of private investment the more likely the government will be forced to mend their ways!

So what we need is a few more of these obvious signs of private investment.

I wonder what would look really good as a replacement for the Árd Rí?

Something flash and modern that stands out and yells

"Look at us, support the South East"

Wanderer2010

914 wrote: »

So the solution would be that we should refuse all private investment into Waterford until the government get their house in order with Waterford?

Not at all but have the dots ready to be joined- work on getting cardiac care 24/7 ready for all these new potential visitors to the city. If building 5 Star hotels, ensure you have your target audience and you will get enough people to visit. Each new development needs to compliment the other.

hardybuck

My understanding of this is that private funding been secured to allow the project to progress to the planning stage. It looks to me like public funding would be required for a substantial portion of the project costs - because realistically what private investor could make a return on that type of investment?

Failte Ireland have a three year programme that has €150m in funding that they're hoping to tap into. However, that's for projects across the country, so it's highly unlikely they'll get to draw down anywhere close to €22m.

I think the Cliffs of Moher got €10m for their visitor centre and associated facilities - so something like €5-10m might be realistic yardstick.

914

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

- work on getting cardiac care 24/7 ready for all these new potential visitors to the city.

Is that not currently taking place? I don't know how much more we can work on 24/7. This is soley on government now. They either want to give it or they don't.

Wanderer2010

914 wrote: »

Is that not currently taking place? I don't know how much more we can work on 24/7. This is soley on government now. They either want to give it or they don't.

They don't want to give it to us. Why? I don't know but someone somewhere is blocking every single attempt to deliver it. Which is why our TDs, the decent ones anyway, need to keep pushing and pushing until we start to see even a sliver of change.

Harry Palmr

All this 22m does is illustrate the gap between private and public with regard to Waterford. The state doesn't give a flying about the city.

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

All this 22m does is illustrate the gap between private and public with regard to Waterford. The state doesn't give a flying about the city.

Ah come on now this is already starting to get really silly.

A guy comes up with a project idea. Estimates a cost. Get's private funding to enable it get to the planning stage. Indicates that he hopes to secure further Bord Failte funding in the future.

And that, in your estimation, illustrates that the State doesn't give a flying about Waterford city!?

Perhaps it'd be nice to have a chat about the merits of the project without having a good whinge.

Harry Palmr

Well I'll point you towards - university, airport, cardiac care - all of which require public money.

(that's all I'm saying as yes there are plenty of other threads which touch upon the multi-generational neglect of the Deise by Dublin)

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well I'll point you towards - university, airport, cardiac care - all of which require public money.

(that's all I'm saying as yes there are plenty of other threads which touch upon the multi-generational neglect of the Deise by Dublin)

Well then could you leave that in all those other threads now for the moment.

There will probably be ample opportunity in the future for complaints whenever it doesn't get the entirety of the money it's looking for.

hardybuck

Just looking at the Angel of the North project which was previously referred to, this is 66ft tall, roughly one third of the proposed height of this project.

The total cost of the project was £800k in 1994. They received funding from their National Lottery, the EU, and some private sponsorship.

Going by the CSO's Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator, the price of consumer goods and services in 1994 costing £800k would cost £1.26m in 2019.

While I'm sure those in the construction industry would have more accurate calculators, it would appear at a very high level that this project could, and perhaps should, be completed at a lower cost with a revised design.

Aside from cost, a structure of 200ft is massively bigger than anything in Waterford. While you want something iconic, you don't want something ridiculous either.

Muttley79

hardybuck wrote: »

My understanding of this is that private funding been secured to allow the project to progress to the planning stage. It looks to me like public funding would be required for a substantial portion of the project costs - because realistically what private investor could make a return on that type of investment?

Failte Ireland have a three year programme that has €150m in funding that they're hoping to tap into. However, that's for projects across the country, so it's highly unlikely they'll get to draw down anywhere close to €22m.

I think the Cliffs of Moher got €10m for their visitor centre and associated facilities - so something like €5-10m might be realistic yardstick.

Yes you are correct,a lot of people are getting their wires crossed here.the project has been privately funded up to this point.the land for this site has also been acquired and permission has been granted.failte Ireland's new platforms for growth grant is worth 150 million euro.
By the looks of this project its looking for the whole grant which failte Ireland would rather spread it out evenly around the country.it would still need private investment of 70 million euro.this is no chicken feed.
To be honest this is put out there at the moment to garner publicity for waterford.the odds of this actually happening is pretty huge.but who knows what it holds

Cabaal

hardybuck wrote: »

Aside from cost, a structure of 200ft is massively bigger than anything in Waterford. While you want something iconic, you don't want something ridiculous either.

Spot on,
Its far too big, it'll never get off the ground as the objections will be massive.

To give an idea of height, a wind turbine is 212-ft without counting the blades and approx 328 ft if you count the blades. Taking out the blades I can see wind turbines from my house that are over 20miles away.

Pictures of this thing place it by the river, but if you read the stories they say "...will be situated at an elevated site overlooking Waterford City", so if thats the case are they going to stuck it up around Mount Misery? If so objections will be even bigger.

friendlyfun

Stick it up sure. Whats the worst that could happen? I think it looks great. Have been a fan since I saw it. Its something unique, much better than a certain local councillors Idea of a mount rushmore style bust of Michael Collins on mount misery.