Mass shooting in el paso

Chris_Heilong

mcmoustache wrote: »

The problems with the rise of white nationalism are well founded. So much so that the FBI has said as much. For the media to ignore it or call it a hoax would be negligent. Given the rise of white nationalism and given the mass shootings and attempted bombings that were explicitly the product of white nationalism there's no question that this is something that the media should be covering.

White nationalism isn't some abstract thing that racists simply discuss during their forest cosplays - it's something with tangible results like people actually dying.

Add to that a President who knows that a large proportion of his voting block are racist and xenophobic and acts accordingly and you have the perfect storm.

I get that Trump wants to blame the media for this but like much of what he says, it's little more than self serving horse shít.

What do you mean by white nationalism? Are you talking about very patriotic people who just happen to be white? or are you saying there are loads of white supremacist in the US? because the 2nd one sounds a bit unhinged.

tuxy

I think some states needs to set some clear boundaries. Either open carry is legal and appropriate for everyday life or it's only ok in exceptional circumstances or it's outright banned.

Tony EH

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Well nearly 1 in 2 Democrats think Trump supporters are racist whilst "Fifty-seven percent (57%) of self-described political liberals believe those who vote for Trump are racist." Do these beliefs spring up out of thin air, do you not believe the media plays any part in creating this impression?

I wouldn't be mistaking a "Trump voter" with a bog standard Conservative or a Republican. There are plenty of people of that political persuasion that are just as pissed off at Trump as there are those on the Democratic side.

In addition, I'd be wary of polls, especially in America, where everything has a bias depending on where their money comes from. Rasmussen Reports have been called out on their "inaccuracies" and leading questions before.

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Joe Lockhart, now a CNN contributor blatantly stated it in a tweet of his

https://twitter.com/joelockhart/status/1155237947035308032

Lockhart's tweet is stupid and unnecessarily inflammatory. But then, everyone on Twitter ends up being stupid and inflammatory at some point, including the billionaire sitting in the White House.

Tony EH

mcmoustache wrote: »

And referring to the publicly traded corporate media that spends more time selling drugs than promoting Sanders or Warren as "leftist" is seriously disingenuous even when you consider where the centre is in US politics. I understand the need to paint it as left-wing but I don't see any traits there that I would associate with any form of lefty behaviour.

There is no left wing in America. The idea that the Democratic party is "left wing" is ridiculous, when they stab the likes of Sanders in the back (a very moderate Democratic Socialist if there was one) in order to put forth Hilary Clinton, a person who'd be the Conservative candidate nearly everywhere else in the world.

tuxy

Walmart removes displays of violent video games in stores, finally some progress.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

mcmoustache

DanDan6592 wrote: »

It was an observation, I wasn't suggesting he believed that was the case.



See above.



Well nearly 1 in 2 Democrats think Trump supporters are racist whilst "Fifty-seven percent (57%) of self-described political liberals believe those who vote for Trump are racist." Do these beliefs spring up out of thin air, do you not believe the media plays any part in creating this impression?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/july_2019/49_of_democrats_think_trump_voters_are_racist

Excepting the reliability of Rasmussen polls for a moment, I guess a lot of people's impressions of Trump voters comes from the attendees at Trump rallies that are broadcast for all to see chanting things like "Shoot them" or "Send her home" or whatever. If the media has any responsibility for that impression, then it's only insofar as showing what happens at these rallies.

Add to that the number of high profile republicans who have failed to condemn the racist language of Trump and the exodus of republicans who did condemn Trump but aren't welcome in the party and it starts to look less like a few bad apples and more like an electoral strategy from the top down.

You don't need the media to make it look like maybe there's a racism problem there.

Gatling

tuxy wrote: »

Walmart removes displays of violent video games in stores,

But not guns .


Pesky video games

mcmoustache

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

What do you mean by white nationalism? Are you talking about very patriotic people who just happen to be white? or are you saying there are loads of white supremacist in the US? because the 2nd one sounds a bit unhinged.

Hi Tucker! Enjoying your vacation?

James Brown

tuxy wrote: »

Walmart removes displays of violent video games in stores, finally some progress.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

That's a con designed to placate the 'think of the children' mob while distracting from the NRA's profits.
When they were hanging blacks from trees did they ban the sale of hula hoops?

Tony EH

tuxy wrote: »

Walmart removes displays of violent video games in stores, finally some progress.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

Yeh, because video games are the problem.

p1akuw47h5r3it

mcmoustache wrote: »

Excepting the reliability of Rasmussen polls for a moment, I guess a lot of people's impressions of Trump voters comes from the attendees at Trump rallies that are broadcast for all to see chanting things like "Shoot them" or "Send her home" or whatever. If the media has any responsibility for that impression, then it's only insofar as showing what happens at these rallies.

Add to that the number of high profile republicans who have failed to condemn the racist language of Trump and the exodus of republicans who did condemn Trump but aren't welcome in the party and it starts to look less like a few bad apples and more like an electoral strategy from the top down.

You don't need the media to make it look like maybe there's a racism problem there.

Racism is a problem anywhere it exists. The question is it a big a problem as being made out, my opinion is no. But we'll just have to disagree on that.

steddyeddy

tuxy wrote: »

I think some states needs to set some clear boundaries. Either open carry is legal and appropriate for everyday life or it's only ok in exceptional circumstances or it's outright banned.

Conceal and carry is linked to increased gun crime in every state that tries it. It shouldn't be allowed in any state.

tuxy

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's a con designed to placate the 'think of the children' mob while distracting from the NRA's profits.
When they were hanging blacks from trees did they ban the sale of hula hoops?

ESPN and ABC have cancelled the broadcast of a video game tournament so are backing Walmart's decision. I'm unsure of the motive for the TV stations to do this.

steddyeddy

Tony EH

tuxy wrote: »

ESPN and ABC have cancelled the broadcast of a video game tournament so are backing Walmart's decision. I'm unsure of the motive for the TV stations to do this.

Optics.

Every time something like this happens, it's "video games", or "violent films", or some other excuse and making a move on them looks like you're doing something.

It's guns though.

martingriff

tuxy wrote: »

Walmart removes displays of violent video games in stores, finally some progress.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/09/business/walmart-violent-video-games/index.html

RIGHT . I would hope so but it will not. What would be next if this does not work

martingriff

tuxy wrote: »

ESPN and ABC have cancelled the broadcast of a video game tournament so are backing Walmart's decision. I'm unsure of the motive for the TV stations to do this.

Its 1 tournament as another say's optics

Gatling

There not broadcasting the tournament which already took place ,it will broadcast in October If I read correctly

notobtuse

steddyeddy wrote: »

Conceal and carry is linked to increased gun crime in every state that tries it. It shouldn't be allowed in any state.

I'm suuuuurrrrreeee you can provide proof of this. :rolleyes:

mcmoustache

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Racism is a problem anywhere it exists. The question is it a big a problem as being made out, my opinion is no. But we'll just have to disagree on that.

It's not an easy thing to measure, I'll give you that.

steddyeddy

notobtuse wrote: »

I'm suuuuurrrrreeee you can provide proof of this. :rolleyes:

Yes of course I can, however, I think you'll respond with "I've made up my mind so don't confuse me with the facts." Feel free to prove me wrong though.

A study conducted on 33 states indicated that the states that implement right to carry laws showed that violent crime jumps on average 10-13% a decade after introduction of the law. Some states like Texas seen a 17% increase in violent crime.

Scientists Showed How More Guns Led To More Violent Crime
A Supreme Court case may soon create a constitutional right to freely carry a gun everywhere, but that would be a dangerous mistake to make, suggests a new study of violent crimes.

Right-to-carry handgun laws trigger a 13% to 15% increase in violent crime a decade after the typical state adopts them, suggests a new statistical analysis of 33 US states.

The Journal of Empirical Legal Studies report released Monday is the latest in a thorny academic fight over how letting people more freely carry around guns affects those crimes.

For 23 of the 31 states adopting the laws, the increase in violent crime was large, for example, in Pennsylvania up by more than 24% in 10 years, and up by nearly 17% in Texas.

steddyeddy

And that's the sound of silence.......

Manic Moran

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes of course I can, however, I think you'll respond with "I've made up my mind so don't confuse me with the facts." Feel free to prove me wrong though.

A study conducted on 33 states indicated that the states that implement right to carry laws showed that violent crime jumps on average 10-13% a decade after introduction of the law. Some states like Texas seen a 17% increase in violent crime.

The problem is “a study”.

If I may quote RAND, https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/concealed-carry/violent-crime.html
Because so much more study has been done of this relationship than of any other gun policy and outcome, there is a much richer evidence base to draw on,

So, relying just on the study you link first has its own problems, such as addressed specifically https://econjwatch.org/articles/do-right-to-carry-laws-increase-violent-crime-a-comment-on-donohue-aneja-and-weber

John J. Donohue, Abhay Aneja, and Kyle Weber have released multiple versions of research finding that certain laws concerning the carrying of firearms, those known as right-to-carry or RTC laws, increase violent crime. Examining recent versions of their research, we find that their results concerning the effects of RTC laws on violent crime are fragile and most likely incorrect... Nevertheless, when we use the synthetic control model, we find that the claim that RTC laws increase either murder or violent crime is not supported. We find states where crime increased after the implementation of the RTC law, and we find more states in which crime decreased after the law. Our tests reveal that there is no significant overall net effect of the RTC laws on murder or violent crime across all 33 states that have implemented such laws.

Fortunately, we need not rely merely on rebuttals, since there are so many such studies. such as the about-as-recent one from the American College of Surgeons. https://www.journalacs.org/article/S1072-7515(18)32074-X/fulltext
During the study period, all states moved to adopt some form of concealed-carry legislation, with a trend toward less restrictive legislation. After adjusting for state and year, there was no significant association between shifts from restrictive to nonrestrictive carry legislation on violent crime and public health indicators. Adjusting further for poverty and unemployment did not significantly influence the results

The afore-linked RAND page is even nice enough to place the results of a number of studies on a graph, with subsets by county, city or State, type of violent crime, and so on.
Evidence that shall-issue concealed-carry laws may increase violent crime is limited. Evidence for the effect of shall-issue laws on total homicides, firearm homicides, robberies, assaults, and rapes is inconclusive.

Given that is is fairly undisputed that those with concealed carry permits tend to be some of the most law-abiding members of the population, with an offender rate less than police officers, the lack of any particular correlation with overall crime rates in most studies is logical.

snowblind

Tony EH wrote: »

Optics.

Every time something like this happens, it's "video games", or "violent films", or some other excuse and making a move on them looks like you're doing something.

It's guns though.

And racism. Anything to distract from that will do to these folks. It'll be funny to see how many edgies radicalized through gamergate will continue on with the ideology. They've been led to the deep end of white nationalist ideology so it might be difficult to get out.

hill16bhoy

You'd wonder what goes through the minds of people like this guy walking through a neighbourhood on "armed patrol"

I bet anything he's a white supremacist nutcase and probably a Nazi

Overheal

hill16bhoy wrote: »

You'd wonder what goes through the minds of people like this guy walking through a neighbourhood on "armed patrol"

I bet anything he's a white supremacist nutcase and probably a Nazi

It’s the 2A version of the same people who did this kind of thing for 1A trolling, where they go eg. Film a police parking lot from the sidewalk, which entices some cop to go talk to them, then they say nothing hoping the cop will demand (illegally) that they stop filming.

Suggesting someone might be a Nazi purely for doing this is stretching terms.

Both are protected forms of civic action and I don’t see an issue with it as long as they follow the law and cops are trained properly to not overreact to either case.

Tony EH

snowblind wrote: »

And racism.

Racism doesn't play a part in most mass shootings though.

Tony EH

hill16bhoy wrote: »

You'd wonder what goes through the minds of people like this guy walking through a neighbourhood on "armed patrol

A wannabe Rambo. Would probably just shit himself when the bullets start flying in his direction.

Overheal

Tony EH wrote: »

Racism doesn't play a part in most mass shootings though.

True enough. Probably why El Paso will be remembered for 15, maybe 20 minutes

snowblind

Tony EH wrote: »

Racism doesn't play a part in most mass shootings though.

Source please