Why did Jesus allow demons to enter a herd of pigs?

The Nal

Its called conditioning. People don't know any better, simple as that really.

ChrisJ84

The Nal wrote: »

Its called conditioning. People don't know any better, simple as that really.

Which doesn't apply to enlightened types like yourself I suppose :rolleyes:

The Nal

ChrisJ84 wrote: »

Which doesn't apply to enlightened types like yourself I suppose :rolleyes:

It did until I was about 11 or 12.

Peregrinus

The Nal wrote: »

Its called conditioning. People don't know any better, simple as that really.

ChrisJ84 wrote: »

Which doesn't apply to enlightened types like yourself I suppose :rolleyes:

The Nal wrote: »

It did until I was about 11 or 12.

You don't grow out of conditioning - that's kind of the point. The fairly well-observed phenomenon of people changing their religious position (or other positions) in adolescence is not evidence that they are no longer susceptible to being shaped by social patterns and social structures; just that they are being influenced by different patterns and structures - your parents and extended family are relatively less of an influence on you; your peers and external role models relatively more so.

There is no a priori reason to think that your present position on religious matters is any less the product of conditioning than positions you held in the past were. The belief that it is is adopted simply because it is comforting and affirming.

uck51js9zml2yt

realdanbreen wrote: »

I don't doubt your belief and the belief of others on this topic but I get a little scared that ye don't seem to be willing to address the huge elephant in the room and that is the ever dwindling numbers attending church and the complete absence of priests and nuns joining up. That indicates one thing to me and it is that people find it hard to believe and they are not being helped by the clergy who after all if nothing else are paid to do a job. I'm no spring chicken but I can honestly say that I don't ever recall meeting a priest who in any way sounded like he was convinced about the afterlife or anything.

The Church is s lot bigger that the RC denomination.
Pentecostal Churches are the fastest growing worldwide.

This is just Ireland.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/a-religious-revolution-is-taking-place-in-ireland-1.3092198?mode=amp

smacl

Peregrinus wrote: »

You don't grow out of conditioning - that's kind of the point.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, P. AFAIK most conditioning needs to be reinforced at regular intervals or it is prone to fade over time. If you think about it, conditioning essentially amounts to rote learning with large numbers of repetitions over an extended period of time, sometimes coupled with punishment for mistakes and reward for consistently getting it right. e.g, most people of a certain generation were taught most subjects this way in school, but how many of them could re-sit their leaving cert and hope to pass?

smacl

Iliana Cold Mayonnaise wrote: »

The Church is s lot bigger that the RC denomination.
Pentecostal Churches are the fastest growing worldwide.

This is just Ireland.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/a-religious-revolution-is-taking-place-in-ireland-1.3092198?mode=amp

Article written by Nick Park, an executive director of Evangelical Alliance Ireland, not that it is a bad article but it is from someone actively promoting evangelicalism. The comments below the article are rather entertaining.

Evangelicalism currently represents about 1.5% of the population in this country, so very much a minority concern.

Hotblack Desiato

smacl wrote: »

The comments below the article are rather entertaining.

I especially liked this one

"such churches, having never been part of the political or cultural power structures in the State, are generally unaffected by the scandals that have disillusioned so many."

Indeed not: their speciality tends rather to be the pastor absconding with the cash box under one arm and his secretary under the other, of which I could relate several juicy examples. But give them any secular power, such as they are now seeking in countries like Brazil, and they'd soon be as corrupt as any of the established churches: probably with brass knobs on given the generally poor backgrounds and low educational levels of their leaders. In the United States "TV evangelist" and "fraudster" are now virtually interchangeable terms. One such rejoices in the name of the Rev. Chuck Swindell, which is a name that even Graham Linehan would have hesitated to invent.

Funny how the people who say things like "X is the fastest growing" something-or-other never mention the obstinately small "market share" of X (same as the market leader Y never mentions how its share is in long-term decline with no idea how to reverse it...)

realdanbreen

Kareem Old-fashioned Supper wrote: »

The believing Church will always be a minority concern, Jesus warned as much.

Well Mohammad certainly seems to have cornered the market.

smacl

Kareem Old-fashioned Supper wrote: »

The believing Church will always be a minority concern, Jesus warned as much.

By that are you labelling all other Christian churches as non-believers?

smacl

Kareem Old-fashioned Supper wrote: »

Far from it. There is, however, a significant distinction between the Biblical fellowship of believers referred to as 'the Church' and the contemporary use of the title 'Church' to collectively describe denominations differing by theological understanding and practice. Jesus made it very clear that the price of belief would be high and that only a minority would be successful. He also wasn't particularly inclusive of all scriptural interpretations, having a major beef with both the Pharisees and Sadducees who were the legalists and liberals of the day as well as more gently correcting a Samaritan with: "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews." This continues into the Epistles which spend a great deal of time correcting theology and practice within the new churches.

My opinion is that the body of believers, the true Biblical Church, spans most (if not all) Christian denominations but the externals of baptism, membership, attendance and other outward practice are no guarantee of personal relationship with God nor salvation. So relative or absolute headcounts can be very misleading, particularly where religion and culture are strongly linked as, for example, in the case of Ireland.

Perfectly valid view of what it means to be Christian but not uniquely so in my opinion, even though other views might be contradictory.

uck51js9zml2yt

smacl wrote: »

Article written by Nick Park, an executive director of Evangelical Alliance Ireland, not that it is a bad article but it is from someone actively promoting evangelicalism. The comments below the article are rather entertaining.

Evangelicalism currently represents about 1.5% of the population in this country, so very much a minority concern.

When you have a thousand people meeting together on a Sunday morning it's hardly a minority concern.

I'd be challenged to find a Catholic church with that many in a single mass.

An secular piece for you.

https://people.howstuffworks.com/pentecostal.htm