The eBike thread

Lumen

Do you need gears?

With all that power you could run it as a high geared singlespeed.

Zero maintenance and safer as there'd be no chance of the chain slipping off under power.

Would require a bit of work though.

John Hutton

unkel wrote: »

I did fit the cut off brakes. I feel you do need them for safety with the PAS. Not so much so with throttle only. The quality of them is fine, they are better than the old ones they replaced. The bike is a 2008 full sus Specialized Epic that I bought off adverts for the princely sum of €150

The bike strangely did not have a front derailleur fitted (but it did have two front chain rings). Which is grand as I would have had to remove it anyway

It needs a new rear cassette though, the current one is worn. Maybe I will go with just a standard one and keep the chain (which looks newish). Be sensible with how to use the bike (and no full throttle from standstill) and see how I get on...

Deffo needed for safety!

I left the front derailleur on on my bike to act as a kind of chain guide, just screwed in the screws so it only moves a little.

unkel

John Hutton wrote: »

I left the front derailleur on on my bike to act as a kind of chain guide, just screwed in the screws so it only moves a little.

Did you not fit the large plastic chain retainer ring that came with the Bafang kit? It seems it is well designed for that job.

Lumen wrote: »

Do you need gears?

With all that power you could run it as a high geared singlespeed.

Zero maintenance and safer as there'd be no chance of the chain slipping off under power.

Would require a bit of work though.

But that defeats the purpose of having all that torque for steep hill climbing if you select a low gear! I also plan to mainly cycle myself at times. And then you want a relatively high gear for relaxed cruising, even though I don't care much about top speed.

John Hutton

unkel wrote: »

Did you not fit the large plastic chain retainer ring that came with the Bafang kit? It seems it is well designed for that job.




But that defeats the purpose of having all that torque for steep hill climbing if you select a low gear! I also plan to mainly cycle myself at times. And then you want a relatively high gear for relaxed cruising, even though I don't care much about top speed.

I did, but that stops it from falling "out" but by leaving the front derailleur on would stop on from falling "in".

Lumen

unkel wrote: »

But that defeats the purpose of having all that torque for steep hill climbing if you select a low gear! I also plan to mainly cycle myself at times. And then you want a relatively high gear for relaxed cruising, even though I don't care much about top speed.

Yeah, but if you geared it for say 70rpm @ 30kph, which is fairly relaxed, then it'd still be doing 35rpm at 15kph, and you're not going to be going slower than that up a steep hill. Presumably the kit works OK at 35rpm?

High geared single speeds are fantastic except for getting up to speed, but you have all that power, so...?

unkel

John Hutton wrote: »

I did, but that stops it from falling "out" but by leaving the front derailleur on would stop on from falling "in".

I get ya now

Lumen wrote: »

High geared single speeds are fantastic except for getting up to speed, but you have all that power, so...?

My number one attraction of my EV is the fast acceleration away from the lights. I'd want a similar experience from my eBike!
Top speed is not all that important to me. As long as it can do a good bit more than the speed limit and I can avoid getting caught going over the limit. Just like with my EV and all my other cars, I've never had any penalty points yet

Low Energy Eng

I never change gears, it sits in the highest gear all the time.
My variation is the power input.

As I approach traffic, I use low power, level 2..
When I have an open road I bump it up to level 6, enough power for me to peddle assist at approx 30kph on the flats...
When I want to let her rip I'll crank it full power.

The highest gear can't really keep up with full power.

I have the throttle so I can pull away at the lights. The hardest thing to get used to is not feathering the brakes as this cuts the motor.

Old habits from cycling without a motor.

Low Energy Eng

I just finished my first month of using an e bike for getting to and from work. It's working out great. Still using the car intermittently.
I've only put 250km on it but I'm thinking I may need to check the disc brakes?
I think they take quite a smashing with all the weight on them.

John Hutton

Low Energy Eng wrote: »

I just finished my first month of using an e bike for getting to and from work. It's working out great. Still using the car intermittently.
I've only put 250km on it but I'm thinking I may need to check the disc brakes?
I think they take quite a smashing with all the weight on them.

I don't think so, I just have cantilever breaks on mine and it's grand.

I added about 10kg to my bike. If I weighed 10kg more I wouldn't be fretting about the brakes

unkel

The bike might not even need a new chain or rear cassette. It's in the bike shop now for the derailleur to be setup again (I had to remove the cable and guide to fit the motor, so it is now stuck in the highest gear)

In the mean time I bought a Bafang gear sensor (EUR12 shipped) and a Bafang programming cable (EUR9 shipped) to have a play with. Might not need the gear sensor cable though, I reckon using a quick blip with the brake will do the same thing. That and / or reprogramming the pedal assist to cut off far quicker than it does as standard. All seems pretty easy from a bit of googling...

Calahonda52

Anyone any thoughts on the spec below for Haibikes.
The application is 99% off road but don't need full softail MTB

Haibike's XDURO range has been upgraded and now has a better range of options.

Their performance focused XDURO models are the most exciting e-bikes available.

Powered by the Yamaha PW-X system, or the Bosch CX platform and the FlyOn TQ system.

New Yamaha PW-SE motors are lighter with improved torque output.
More power when you need it.

unkel

I'm sure it's a great bike if you don't mind parting with EUR7,000 and still end up with an underpowered machine.

Not really what this thread is about though...

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

I'm sure it's a great bike if you don't mind parting with EUR7,000 and still end up with an underpowered machine.

Not really what this thread is about though...

I know its effectively your thread so what is it about then?

unkel

Not about buying a €7k bike in a shop. That would make for a very boring thread imho.

This is all about everything else to do with eBikes, particularly anything DIY. Have a look at the previous 800+ posts in this thread, I don't think anyone else has mentioned buying a ready made expensive eBike in a shop before you did!

Hope I'll have some time today to open up the front geared hub motor on the fat bike. I got the replacement nylon gears in the post a few days ago, see if the current ones need replacing. Was out on it over the weekend, bike working fine, but the grinding noise under load doesn't sit well with me. I've a lower amp controller on the way too, I'll try that too. Maybe what I did was a bit much for that poor 250W motor

John Hutton

Gentlemen,

Having electrified my touring bike I seem to have caught the bug which has infected many in this thread in coming to the conclusion that one ebike is not enough !

I have a Brompton and would love to electrify it. It would have to be a hub motor, Brompton have an official kit but it's Uber expensive.

Any idea of 16 inch hub motors?

unkel

Are you sure the wheels are only 16"? I thought the standard for a folding bike was 20" (and kits for that size are quite common)

And yes. If you have x electric bikes, then the ideal number of electric bikes to have is x + 1

I've only 2, but already planning more of them

John Hutton

unkel wrote: »

Are you sure the wheels are only 16"? I thought the standard for a folding bike was 20" (and kits for that size are quite common)

It's definitely 16

unkel

Well a geared hub motor is only about EUR75*. If you can't find a wheel, just buy a motor and either lace it in yourself or get a bike shop to do it. I guess about €50 for an easy job like on a folding bike front wheel.

* I did get stung for 23% VAT plus an EUR14 admin charge though...

Joe1919

John Hutton wrote: »

Gentlemen,

Any idea of 16 inch hub motors?

https://bmsbattery.com/motor/868-16985-q70-36v250w-front-driving-v-brake-hub-motor.html#/214-rpm-328

The above motor suits small forks (8mm axle and 74mm forks) and you need the 328 rpm version because of smaller wheel.
However, I believe wooshbikes.co.uk will be doing a full kit (plug and play!) shortly for about 529 pounds (including battery) plus delivery.

padjocollins

https://electrek.co/2020/02/03/ride1up-500-series-e-bike-review-could-this-be-the-best-bang-for-your-buck/#disqus_thread

John Hutton

John Hutton wrote: »

Gentlemen,

Having electrified my touring bike I seem to have caught the bug which has infected many in this thread in coming to the conclusion that one ebike is not enough !

I have a Brompton and would love to electrify it. It would have to be a hub motor, Brompton have an official kit but it's Uber expensive.

Any idea of 16 inch hub motors?

16 inch wheels are ideal for hub motors as they produce more torque for the same power and there is greatly reduced stress on the motor.

However, the smaller hub will provide a lot less top speed than a 26 inch wheel, the solution to this is more voltage.

Play with the ebikes.ca motor simulator and use a MAC 8T motor as a reference. MAC 8t is a great motor with a 40 amp controller.

If getting your own wheel spoked up you would need heavier duty rims and spokes.

unkel

Got the little yellow specialized back from the shop. Brakes tuned, rear caliper replaced and rear derailleur wire re-routed and tuned. Took it out for a little test ride just now and this thing is insane

In lowest gear from standstill with full throttle the feckin' thing does a serious wheelie unless you put a good bit of weight on the front. Instantly you get 1100-1200W. And that's with my cheap EUR50 battery. You really don't need any gears with this unless you want to do some serious hill climbing. Loving it, can't wait to take it up some trails for the craic

In other news, I took my geared hub motor apart. Can't see much for the thick black grease but the gears do not look damaged. Ordered some degreaser and general purpose grease from Amazon and will rebuild with the new gears when I get them. Also fitted a 36V/48V controller with just 17A instead of the 48V/60V 30A controller, which was just too much for that poor motor...

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Got the little yellow specialized back from the shop. Brakes tuned, rear caliper replaced and rear derailleur wire re-routed and tuned. Took it out for a little test ride just now and this thing is insane

In lowest gear from standstill with full throttle the feckin' thing does a serious wheelie unless you put a good bit of weight on the front. Instantly you get 1100-1200W. And that's with my cheap EUR50 battery. You really don't need any gears with this unless you want to do some serious hill climbing. Loving it, can't wait to take it up some trails for the craic

In other news, I took my geared hub motor apart. Can't see much for the thick black grease but the gears do not look damaged. Ordered some degreaser and general purpose grease from Amazon and will rebuild with the new gears when I get them. Also fitted a 36V/48V controller with just 17A instead of the 48V/60V 30A controller, which was just too much for that poor motor...

Congrats, your first high power kit and also your first dead motor ! You're now officially an Ebike builder !

Can't beat having the power but it comes at a cost and that's range.

Joe1919

unkel wrote: »

.... You really don't need any gears with this unless you want to do some serious hill climbing.......
.....Ordered some degreaser and general purpose grease .....
.......Also fitted a 36V/48V controller with just 17A instead of the 48V/60V 30A controller, which was just too much for that poor motor...

Great stuff. Re above, just some pointers, but you can research yourself.
1. They generally recommend keeping the middrive motors turning fast for more efficency and less heat and stress. i.e. use the gears. (Generally speaking, bogging down a motor at low speed is bad)
2. Petroleum based grease softens the nylon gears.
3. I'm glad to see that you have fitted a smaller controller. It will also give your batteries an easier life.
Best of luck.

unkel

My fault, I've created some confusion. The Bafang BBS02B in my yellow specialized is working great. It is rated for 750W with a maximum of 1.5kW of 48V @ 30A with the built in controller. The extra little oomph of my fully charged 52V battery (58.8 * 30 = 1.8kW) won't make much of a difference unless you ride the bejaysus out of it every day. I prefer the looks of a hardtail 29er, but this little 26" full suspension bike is great craic so far. I might end up with my all in one bike, maybe a full suspension 29er with either a 2kW BBSHD or a 2kW rear geared MAC hub motor, or a high end fat bike with the same setup

My other current eBike, my fat bike, has a cheap Chinese geared hub motor, 48V and rated for 250W. I hammered it with about 1300W, which was obviously a bit much for it as their is a grinding noise coming from the motor now under full throttle. No noise once the bike reaches full speed, which is the same as before. I'll inspect the gears when I have cleaned them and replace them with the ones I got off Amazon for GBP9.99 for the three of them shipped. After that I'll go easy on the fat bike, with the new lower power controller and maybe some fresh 36V batteries. Probably gonna sell the fat bike then once I'm happy the motor is 100% healthy again

unkel

Joe1919 wrote: »

I'm glad to see that you have fitted a smaller controller. It will also give your batteries an easier life.

The bigger the controller, the better in my book. I'll wring the last drop of performance out of them motors

If that costs me a few €25 batteries along the way, so be it...

unkel

Had a pretty epic ride yesterday morning through a flooded and very mucky canal track.



And then the storm broke loose in full. What can I say, the rain / hail / wind made sure my bike was nice and clean again by the time I got home. Me? Not so much And the battery was dead about 500m before I got home. Brought both of them for 58.8V 12Ah. Nearly 20km done in brutal circumstances, so not too bad.

Highlight of the day was when I cycled on a completely flooded road and the water was so deep that I had to lift my feet up in the air. This meant the pedals were under water, so were being propelled by the water because of the momentum of the bike. Which of course triggered the pedal assist

I'm really enjoying the full suspension setup too (my first) and the mid drive is a pretty awesome setup. I think I saw a top speed of about 45km/h too (in the bad weather), which is far more than I need.

I guess my ideal bike at this stage would be a full suspension bike with a BBSHD mid motor with a custom very small motor chain ring for insane torque. Not sure of the form factor yet, could be 27.5 / 29 or even fat bike

John Hutton

Sounded like great fun!!

Not sure how the motor will stand up to being dunked in water though!

BBSHD with a small chain ring will mean tons of wheelies !

As for speed, it will do 50 bit that's a bit mad !

Do you prefer it to a hub motor?

unkel

I love the torque of the mid drive. That will be impossible to beat with any other setup. And I haven't even gone BBSHD + small chain ring yet. It shouldn't surprise me really, instant torque has always been the most important feature of my cars too. That's why I used to have normally breathing large V8 petrol auto saloons (and I hate the near zero torque of small engined modern cars at idle and their turbo lag). And when these big engined cars were no longer around as a viable family car option, I switched to a fully electric car.

I know the drawbacks, I don't yet know how bad they will be for me. I will go Lekkie chain ring, which seems made to grip the chain much better. I have already ordered a gear sensor (which I might, or might not fit). I won't mind fitting a better chain and I guess I will have to live with a lot of wear on the cassette.

The BBS motors have an IP rating of 65, which means they can stand jets of water sprayed at them, but not being submerged for lengths of time. I guess the occasional dip into a deep muddy puddle should not be a problem

My biggest problem now is to offload my surplus to requirements bikes and start looking for the ultimate bike and then get the appropriate BBSHD kit for it!

You can't beat a Direct Drive hub motor for sheer raw power running 5 Kw or more peak with no interruption of power for gear changes etc.

Even a 8T mac at 3.5 Kw is amazing.

The Mid drive would be more efficient for Hills and slow hilly trails but you can add a scooter motor that would do anything but it would be a lot heavier.