The eBike thread

loughside

This is the Whyte 29er i last converted to a mid-drive, i bought it on Ebay for 140 iirc.



now looks like this after the BBSHD bits,



It`s been great especially on the hills round here.... there`s pluses and minuses though, if the chain breaks on a mid-drive there`s a problem, a hub may get you back home.... if you`ve a puncture on the hub rim you`ve also got a problem, a pain to work on!
What i most liked about the BBS mid-drive was the noise, there isn`t any, ... my old hub folder sounds like a milk-float coming in comparison...

Swings and roundabouts.

(@John Hutton - did you get playing around with the controller software yet, or are you leaving as is?)

unkel

I know I would love a rear wheel Mac geared hub motor. And I like the milk float sound But going that route would be irreversible once the motor is laced into the wheel. And I would still wonder what a mid drive is like...

Whereas a mid drive, you can just take it out, and sell on the likes of adverts.ie, which I do on a daily basis. Shipping and duty / VAT are zero, so worst case scenario is about a €50-€100 loss by selling it on. Probably less. And then buy the Mac motor...

Thank you all though for invaluable help and information on this thread!

unkel

BBS02 Down to just USD453 with the latest controller (up to 1.3kW with charged 52V battery), includes light and upgraded P750C display and gear / shift sensor

That's just a touch over EUR400 incl. taxes and shipping (shipped from Germany, so from within the EU)

Linky


Ordered :cool:

John Hutton

unkel wrote: »

BBS02 Down to just USD453 with the latest controller (up to 1.3kW with charged 52V battery), includes light and upgraded P750C display and gear / shift sensor

That's just a touch over EUR400 incl. taxes and shipping (shipped from Germany, so from within the EU)

Linky


Ordered :cool:

That's what I ordered from the same supplier. You'll probably get it the week after next, they shipped mine really quick.

SCOL

I'm looking at buying a 8T kit

how many of these would I need ? 40/50KPH and Run about 40/50Km or what battery should I get ?

URUAV 22.2V 10000mAh 30/60C 6S Lipo Battery XT90 Plug - €107 each

unkel

SCOL wrote: »

URUAV 22.2V 10000mAh 30/60C 6S Lipo Battery XT90 Plug - €107 each

That's EUR500 / kWh

I know it's lipo, but that's very expensive. I recently bought 6S lithium packs including shipping and including BMS for about EUR150 / kWh

SCOL

unkel wrote: »

That's EUR500 / kWh

I know it's lipo, but that's very expensive. I recently bought 6S lithium packs including shipping and including BMS for about EUR150 / kWh

Where did you but it from ?

unkel

Just from Aliexpress. Search for 29.4V (7S) 6Ah batteries. Mine were USD28 with free shipping. If you order them one by one, they will not attract any VAT or custom charges.

These are overstock hoverboard and scooter packs, made in the millions when those were fads. That's why they're selling so cheaply now. Would not be the same quality as the lipo packs you linked to and obviously you would get a lot more current safely out of those lipo packs

If you want loads of power, but don't need much range, lipo would be the way to go alright, if you don't mind paying the premium for them

SCOL

SCOL wrote: »

I'm looking at buying a 8T kit

how many of these would I need ? 40/50KPH and Run about 40/50Km or what battery should I get ?

URUAV 22.2V 10000mAh 30/60C 6S Lipo Battery XT90 Plug - €107 each

What 8T Kit ?

SCOL

Deleted User wrote: »

What 8T Kit ?

Not sure yet, as this is my first build probably go with something from Aliexpress
I just need to sort out the batteries so I can have everything ready.


Unkel
AERDU 24V 2.5Ah 7S1P 25.9V 29.4V Lithium-ion battery pack For Small Electric Unicycles Scooters
Is this what I'm looking for ? how many of these would I need ?

SCOL

SCOL wrote: »

Not sure yet, as this is my first build probably go with something from Aliexpress
I just need to sort out the batteries so I can have everything ready.


Unkel
AERDU 24V 2.5Ah 7S1P 25.9V 29.4V Lithium-ion battery pack For Small Electric Unicycles Scooters
Is this what I'm looking for ? how many of these would I need ?

Is this 8T a Mac Motor or something I'm not aware of ?

Check out Zippy or Turnigy LiPo from Hobbyking and check the E.U warehouse. Should get it cheap enough and they are reputable brands, the Turnigy would be better if you could stretch to that.

If running a say, 52v 10 Ah pack of LiPo then 20 C is more than enough but once you know how to manage it without BMS you will love it and it's amazing charge current capability.

Even 5 ah pack , 20 C LiPo is plenty.

unkel

SCOL wrote: »

Unkel
AERDU 24V 2.5Ah 7S1P 25.9V 29.4V Lithium-ion battery pack For Small Electric Unicycles Scooters
Is this what I'm looking for ? how many of these would I need ?

Link?

SCOL

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/153605942042

Seen this 48v 1000W rear wheel on ebay. not sure if I could swap the gears if needed.

What would to think about this as a starter kit ?

unkel

Where are you based? That kit does not ship to Ireland or Northern Ireland.

It's a cheap kit, and that motor will be able to take a lot more than 1kW. That said, it's a direct drive motor. Read this thread again about the pros and cons of the different setups, direct drive motor vs geared hub motor vs mid drive motor

I got banned for questioning or objecting to the legalities of the 25 Km/hr ebike limit. lol. They're a sad bunch of idiots, seriously, some of the mods on boards.ie would want to get some professional help.

All I have to do is create another account, multiple accounts. Fools. (maybe I have already ;-) )

Dear Mad_Lad,

You have been permanently banned from Cycling for ignoring a moderator's instructions.

Discussion can become heated, we don't object to that, but when a moderator issues a warning on a thread to reign things in, it stops a heated discussion from turning into a mess.

For more information please refer to the Boards.ie FAQ.

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here.

Chips Lovell

Moderator Note

You were told not to posy on this thread again and yet you still do so

Originally Posted by Mad_Lad View Post
The Limit in the U.S is 32.2 Km/hr and they are allowed to have a throttle.

So what's the problem with these E.U bureaucrats ? bunch of bloody fools.

It was great when I had my 8T Mac motor kit, I could just blip the throttle for a quick blast to help me maintain a higher speed, when I was fit I could pedal at 18 Km/hr with no assistance, on A road bike of course I could do more with skinny slicks pumped to 100 PSI. I wouldn't have a hope today because I've been off the bike so long but it was great not having that poxy limit you feel you're fighting all the time on the Bosch which would be the same for any legal ebike.

The E.U , our great protectors, me arse, bunch of idiots in power.

The Brits are so lucky to be getting out !

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

I got banned for questioning or objecting to the legalities of the 25 Km/hr ebike limit. lol. They're a sad bunch of idiots, seriously, some of the mods on boards.ie would want to get some professional help.

All I have to do is create another account, multiple accounts. Fools. (maybe I have already ;-) )

If you do that you'll just get site banned, and that would be a shame.

Boards has a strict policy on not encouraging illegal behaviour, it's nothing to do with the mods, it's a site wide policy. Mods have to enforce it.

Boards.ie can go f1ck itself, to be honest I'm sick of their antics. I can just keep re-registering so a all out ban would be ridiculous on their part.

I'm probably too long on this site anyway and it takes up a lot of time.

I'm delighted I have been using an add blocker for a long time now because I do not want to support their behaviour, it's a disgrace. Who the hell do these mods think they are ?

That post above proves their victimisation and bullying it all started because I created a thread that was closed on Ebikes all because I offended the cycling purists there over the mention of ebikes.

Certain mods on boards.ie are bullies and trolls there is no other way to describe them.

padjocollins

Living in germany and just starting to learn a little about ebikes (they are all over the place her, bosch is king). Not a big fan of mid drive motors. I came across this bike yesterday
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/grace-easy-25-km-h-pedelec-gebraucht-top-zustand/1195314647-217-1794

the grace esay has a bionx geared hub but bionx has gone out of business
https://www.electricbike.com/bionx/

seemed like a a great product (read they had poor parts servicing when inevitable breakdowns occur) regenativ braking, inbuilt controller, 350W . It's a propietry system so you can't get generic parts. Irrelevent as they are out of business

anyway thought i ask ye're opinions on the tech and what are similar alternatives are out there. Mid drives hubs aren't for me.
i really liked the grace easy bike. First one that made me say, i'll have one please.
I've just bought a cube travel pro non e bike which i love. belt drive and hyralic brakes, fatter tyres, add to a comfortable silent ride.

Calahonda52

padjocollins wrote: »

Living in germany and just starting to learn a little about ebikes (they are all over the place her, bosch is king). Not a big fan of mid drive motors. ...
Mid drives hubs aren't for me.
.

For the benefit of other, including me, what don't you like about the mid drive?

John Hutton

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Boards.ie can go f1ck itself, to be honest I'm sick of their antics. I can just keep re-registering so a all out ban would be ridiculous on their part.

I'm probably too long on this site anyway and it takes up a lot of time.

I'm delighted I have been using an add blocker for a long time now because I do not want to support their behaviour, it's a disgrace. Who the hell do these mods think they are ?

That post above proves their victimisation and bullying it all started because I created a thread that was closed on Ebikes all because I offended the cycling purists there over the mention of ebikes.

Certain mods on boards.ie are bullies and trolls there is no other way to describe them.

I tend to strictly only use boards when I have a query about something specific and stick to relatively few threads where there are knowledgeable posters. I don't use boards for any sort of entertainment anymore, places like Reddit are superior. The moderation used to drive me mad, it's so inconsistent across the site. On some forums you have no idea who the mods are because they do the job quietly and efficiently, on others there are "superstar" mods who love the bold writing.

For some it goes to their heads completely and it's about serving their own agendas. This was particularly the case (maybe still is?) On the politics forum where they used to basically ban anyone who supported Sinn Fein.

Anyway, it would be a shame if you got banned because you've been such a help on here.

padjocollins

padjocollins wrote: »

Living in germany and just starting to learn a little about ebikes (they are all over the place her, bosch is king). Not a big fan of mid drive motors. I came across this bike yesterday
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/grace-easy-25-km-h-pedelec-gebraucht-top-zustand/1195314647-217-1794

the grace esay has a bionx geared hub but bionx has gone out of business
https://www.electricbike.com/bionx/

seemed like a a great product (read they had poor parts servicing when inevitable breakdowns occur) regenativ braking, inbuilt controller, 350W . It's a propietry system so you can't get generic parts. Irrelevent as they are out of business

anyway thought i ask ye're opinions on the tech and what are similar alternatives are out there. Mid drives hubs aren't for me.
i really liked the grace easy bike. First one that made me say, i'll have one please.
I've just bought a cube travel pro non e bike which i love. belt drive and hyralic brakes, fatter tyres, add to a comfortable silent ride.

I'm curious, what don't you like about mid drive motors ?

That grace bike is a direct drive motor and if only using it for commuting or just getting outside for some moderate exercise then direct drives are pretty good and ultra reliable, should last decades.

However, if you like to pedal yourself and only use the motor as little as possible then the direct drive motor is a poor choice because it creates a lot of drag when there is no power to the motor and direct drives are not as efficient as the internally geared hub and much less efficient that the Bosch on hills. On level ground there wouldn't be much between the Bosch and internally geared hub efficiency wise.

However, if you like it then test it yourself and see how you feel peddling it without power.

If you live in a hilly area then the Bosch would be most efficient, I have cycled 60 kms before in a very hilly area and used the motor on the steep stuff and still had 40% battery when I got back, it was pretty new then.

For lower power limits the Bosch is king, I got the 2013 haibike, only 50 Nm of torque and while that's fine it can be a little low for some of the steepest hills, the newer 75 Nm ones would be better.

Brose of course, made in Berlin are probably the best Ebike motors you can get but come at a price, haibike have them, they output about 110 Nm of torque.

The Bosch system also creates a drag on the pedals with the motor off and they only recently addressed this I believe on the newest Gen but they're not the only mid drive setups that cause drag with no power.

I think I would avoid that grace bike because it has an internal 3 speed Sram hub built in and Sram no longer make traditional geared hubs and finding parts is next to impossible.

My Haibike has a 3 speed hub, the Dual Drive III and I damaged it and can't find parts so now I'm left with just the rear 9 speed sprocket and it's fine for most instances on level ground I'm limited to about 29 Km/hr max and at that I would be peddling quite fast + on the hills I am more limited, the 3 speed hub along with 9 speed sprocket gave me astonishing climbing ability, I could climb 20% grades but slowly of course because 50 Nm of torque will climb anything with the right gearing but when you have to peddle really fast and are going slowly it's not nice, this is where more torque is better.

If you can build your own kit, and you prefer a hub then an 8T mac is great and if you have lots of long steep hills then a 10-12T Mac motor would be a good option, the 10-12T are wired more for torque and heat up less on hills but the effect of that is much reduced top speed so you need to use higher voltage.

The Geared rear hub is also something I prefer, perhaps if I had a mid drive with more power and throttle or if it hadn't that ridiculously low "legal" power limit I would like it more because the Bosch torque sensing system while terrific can end up making your legs tired because this system makes you work hard and contrary to what some might think that ebikes are there to assist you this is true but the less power you put on the pedals the less assistance you get so when your legs get tired or sore kneed in my case then on steep hills you can find yourself going far too slow where as having a throttle would allow you go get max assistance no matter how much pressure you put on the pedals, this no throttle law in the E.U is just ridiculous, really ridiculous, a bike that's limited to 25 Km/hr or 15.5 Mph should be allowed a throttle.

padjocollins

really appreciate your reply mad lad, very informative . i have a lot to learn. I would have written why i don't like mid drive , except i don't exactly know myself. i guess it just looks like they don't belong there and they are a lot more bake into the bike that having the motor on the hub, which you could swap out if you needed or wanted to .

Joe1919

In the book , 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' the author (Robert Pirsig) has a discussion on the difference between the owners of Harley Davidson and BMW motorcycles. The Harley owners are more 'tweakers' and tend to maintain there own bikes whereas the BMW owners expect the bikes to work.......To some extent, this reminds me of this discussion between 'hub motor owners and perhaps bosch mid drive owners.
Anyhow, I have often come across similar type arguments, e.g. between 2 stroke and 4 stroke motorcycles, diesel and petrol cars, 2 story and single story houses etc.
As far as I can see, it depends on the owner and his usage and his pocket. Hub motors are presently cheaper and robust and are attractive for owners who have no problems say getting their hand dirty fixing a puncture etc. The chains/cogs last much longer than mid drives and even longer than ordinary push bikes. However mid drives do offer some advantages in terms of hill climbing and speed, ease of wheel removal etc but at the expense of more chain/transmission wear and perhaps less durability.

SCOL

I've been looking around all the sites maybe you can recommend a kit that comes everything and I just need to buy the batteries.

8T geared back wheel motor
40-50Km per Hour
battery to last about 40/50Km

Also what batteries should I use ?

SCOL

I can help the bike up hills, mostly flat ground with moderate short hills
If the bike was able to do 35-40Km per Hour would that we workable with the battery ?

Joe1919

SCOL wrote: »

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/153605942042

Seen this 48v 1000W rear wheel on ebay. not sure if I could swap the gears if needed.
What would to think about this as a starter kit ?

unkel wrote: »

Where are you based? That kit does not ship to Ireland or Northern Ireland.

I am just wondering could you use AddressPal to get this item delivered to Ireland. It does not contain batteries and is probably within size of 300 cm length+ girth but would need to check with supplier. Charge would be just an extra 10.49euro.or 13.49 as free delivery to England
https://addresspal.anpost.ie/pricing-sizing

liamog

Mod Note: deleted posts re discussion of banned user, as per charter

* If you have an issue with moderation then PM the moderator in question. Do NOT argue the point on-thread, as this serves only to derail the thread and will result in a ban.

unkel

Joe1919 wrote: »

I am just wondering could you use AddressPal to get this item delivered to Ireland. It does not contain batteries and is probably within size of 300 cm length+ girth but would need to check with supplier. Charge would be just an extra 10.49euro.or 13.49 as free delivery to England
https://addresspal.anpost.ie/pricing-sizing

I would say so. I had my wheel shipped to Parcel Motel (Northern Ireland). Because of size and presumably weight, I had to pay extra, I think EUR7.00 in total instead of €3.50

kiely182

i just thought id post some advice in relation to large direct drive motors. yes a puncture on a large rear hub motor is a real pita. how i solved this problem was i cut the bead off a 1.50 inch tyre put it inside a 2.0 tyre fitted heavy duty tube filled with sealant. I haven't got a flat that couldn't be fixed by placing leak at the bottom and just pumping the tyre up again in over 2000 miles of real heavy riding with panniers and two large batteries

Calahonda52

kiely182 wrote: »

i just thought id post some advice in relation to large direct drive motors. yes a puncture on a large rear hub motor is a real pita. how i solved this problem was i cut the bead off a 1.50 inch tyre put it inside a 2.0 tyre fitted heavy duty tube filled with sealant. I haven't got a flat that couldn't be fixed by placing leak at the bottom and just pumping the tyre up again in over 2000 miles of real heavy riding with panniers and two large batteries

Can you elaborate a bit more on this pls?
Any pictures