The eBike thread

Joe1919

John Hutton wrote: »

...... I'm also going for 100% legal for public road use also.....
I'm thinking of using
The tsdz2 as it is torque sensing

John, there is a 250W tdz2 available with no throttle ($315) which comes close to being legal and you can set the speed limit to 25 km/hr. But I dont think its 100% legal as the user can easily increase the speed limit.
Some bikes e.g Halfords are very difficult to increase speed as controller are potted and settings locked, without actually changing the controllers and fitting higher voltage batteries etc. But the tdz2 can be changed by simply setting buttons on the display. (Perhaps there is a way to prevent this but I dont know.)
Some people(e,g lazy riders like myself) dont like torque sensors as you need to pedal with a little force.
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-2s-gaym

Woosh (UK) also do a kit without throttle (48V ) that they say conform to EN15194 for £339. They are friendly to inquire with.
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit#tsdz2

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Maybe that explains it? A 52V battery pack made of 18650 cells that you could draw a peak of 30A out of (without doing it harm) might have been big, so heavy and more importantly, extremely expensive the guts of 10 years ago? So lipo would have been a good alternative?

These days batteries are so cheap that you need not worry about them much. I draw 30A out of a EUR50 52V nominal pack regularly. If that kills the battery within a year, so be it, I'll just buy another one.

No, 18650 cells were not good then, they had poor C rates. Today they're better but still nowhere near the power density of LiPo.

I was running well over 30 amps too at the time from a 5 ah pack, more like 50-55 amps not including peaks and the peaks need to be considered too this is where the cycle analyst came in, it could tell you your nominal and peak current draw, so even today the 18650 cells are not good enough for this small size of a pack, as the pack gets larger then this becomes less of an issue, parallel enough 18650s and you can have a decent pack but cycle life with 18650s is still not fantastic.

The em3ev packs can power 52v 50 amps peak and around 40 amps nominal which is about good enough for a BBSHD and fine for a BBS02 though the packs are expensive but they're worth the money, these days Graphene LiPo can provide much higher cycle life than the 18650 cells while still providing the current, they are more expensive but the cost is coming down.

Still, a pack of 20C LiPo can be built quite cheaply, buying batteries of unknown source or quality is always risky.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

I was running well over 30 amps too at the time from a 5 ah pack, more like 50-55 amps not including peaks

3kW not including peaks is a bit extreme alright

I'd say 99.9% of eBike owners have less than half of that.

SCOL

unkel wrote: »

Well, we can have a discussion here about using LiPo vs 18650 based battery packs.

The major benefit of lipo is that it can be charged / discharged at much higher rates than lithium ion. This is vital if you need a very high power application and it doesn't matter that it can only work for a very short time at max power. But what does matter is the weight of the pack. It is clear this would be a major benefit for say a remote control helicopter.

Is this a major benefit for an eBike though?

I've bought 2 packs of the scooter batterys, I'm going to connect them up and see how I get on.
All I need now is a charger,

John Hutton

John Hutton wrote: »

Can you get hubs with integrated controllers?

Yes you can get hubs with internal controllers. Goldenmotor.com make the Magic Pi 5, 30 amp controller @52 volts would be 1.5 Kw.

It's got decent torque due to the large diameter. Should run around 40 Km/hr unless the changed the motor for higher rpm.

It's a good quality kit. I installed their Magic Pi II a good few years ago. Then ripped out the internal controller, which was 15 amps max at the time, a real disappointment and I modded it to use an external "modded" controller with 60 volts and 50 amps, it was a lot of fun.

As the motor is direct drive and due to the large diameter of the motor it's an absolute B1tch to to pedal without power.

If you want a bike with the most natural feel without motor power then the internally geared hubs are the best.

I'm not sure what a BBS02 or BBSHD are like to pedal without motor power but I've read on the web there is some drag with these motors too as there is with the Bosch mid drive and most mid drive motors. I believe Bosch have addressed this for their 2020 models but not sure. Brose is probably the best mid motor out there made in Berlin, I believe this provides very little motor drag when there is no power to the motor.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

3kW not including peaks is a bit extreme alright

I'd say 99.9% of eBike owners have less than half of that.

I was pulling 3.5 Kw with the 8T mac motor at one stage, amazing fun, then into another direct drive 1 Kw rated motor 5 Kw and not including peaks, peaks were nearer 7 Kw the acceleration was mental, all the way to 80 Km/hr it took effort to keep the front wheel down.

I knew I had to decommission my high power bikes. Sad but had to be done.

kuro2k

Converted my bike last weekend

bbshd, 52v jumbo shark and lekkie 42T

kuro2k

kuro2k wrote: »

Converted my bike last weekend

bbshd, 52v jumbo shark and lekkie 42T

Nice one.

What was the total cost and did u get it all from em3ev or just the battery ? Import charges ?

kuro2k

Deleted User wrote: »

Nice one.

What was the total cost and did u get it all from em3ev or just the battery ? Import charges ?

Original plan was to get the kit direct from em3ev but went with eclipse bikes in the UK.

Calahonda52

On the eclipse web site I see this"
https://eclipsebikes.com/product_info.php?products_id=140

The brake levers are cable operated, so will not be compatible with hydraulic brakes. We also stock brake sensors for use with hydraulic brakes, which are compatible with Bafang motor kits.

why does the kit come with new brake levers?

kuro2k

Calahonda52 wrote: »

On the eclipse web site I see this"
https://eclipsebikes.com/product_info.php?products_id=140

The brake levers are cable operated, so will not be compatible with hydraulic brakes. We also stock brake sensors for use with hydraulic brakes, which are compatible with Bafang motor kits.

what does the kit come with new brake levers?

Yea, kit comes standard with cable operated brake cut-off levers.

Calahonda52

kuro2k wrote: »

Yea, kit comes standard with cable operated brake cut-off levers.

Thanks, my bad with the question, what are they needed?

unkel

Big bucks from that site! How much for BBSHD + battery + Lekkie shipped in EUR? Which display did you go for?

kuro2k

unkel wrote: »

Big bucks from that site! How much for BBSHD + battery + Lekkie shipped in EUR? Which display did you go for?

I’ve been planning the conversion for a very long time and it wasn’t about getting the cheapest kit. I wanted em3ev battery / bshdd so options were limited. Reduced shipping costs and delivery time made it worth it for me.

I got c965, will upgrade to eggrider.

unkel

So how much?

And what's the reason you went for the Lekkie, you can get a 42T in the BBSHD, so not for more torque (going up hills) then?

I'm interested in them myself, but I would go for a much smaller number than the standard Bafang range, to increase torque (at the expense of top speed)

Joe1919

Re. Brake cutouts, I fitted a cheap handlebar 'kill' switch lately in lieu of brake cutouts. I pieced two 'telephone' tin coated solid insulated wires to end of stranded wires and pushed the stripped ends directly up into the red two wire brake julet connector. Turning the switch 'on' kills the motor.
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/7-8-Handlebar-On-Off-Kill-Switch-Light-Button-Electric-Bike-Motorcycle-Ebike/163676947364?hash=item261be803a4:g:Kk8AAOSwJtJcR3eR

Calahonda52

unkel wrote: »

Big bucks from that site! How much for BBSHD + battery + Lekkie shipped in EUR? Which display did you go for?

Why does it always have to be about money?
Who are you being with this incessant conversation about money and all the great deals you make by buying and selling blah blah blah, regardless of the topic.?
Is there a young age conversation from the past somewhere that is still in your future?
Certainly seems that way.

SCOL

I got my kit today in the post, so I'll get it fitted and hopefully the battery will be here soon.

unkel

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Why does it always have to be about money?

Why does it never have to be about money with you? Power to you if you have so much money that it doesn't matter to you. It does to me as my resources are limited and many requirements in my life compete for money with my personal follies / hobbies. Like putting my kids through college. My hobbies lose out and are required to cost me as little as possible.

And to remind you, this is my thread. If you want to start a thread about people buying €10k ready made eBikes, be my guest, but please don't spoil my thread with it.

If someone builds an ebike he should be praised regardless of cost for getting it up and running and welcoming him to the joy of ebiking.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

If someone builds an ebike he should be praised regardless of cost for getting it up and running and welcoming him to the joy of ebiking.

Of course! As you saw, I was one of the first to thank kuro2k's post showing his converted bike.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Of course! As you saw, I was one of the first to thank kuro2k's post showing his converted bike.

Clicking like isn't quite the same

Either way it doesn't matter what the kit is or how much it cost just be happy another ebike is on the road.

Maybe we should plan an ebike meet up somewhere we can test all the "off roading" ebikes ?

I'm sure my Bosch would be left for dust with me panting and puffing. I would probably find 50 Nm of torque useless after being off the bike the last 4-5 years.

SCOL

I'm going to fit my BBS02B mid drive this week, hopefully if will fit onto my Trek bike.

would I need to buy a heaver chain ? anyone any problems with broken chain as I read it somewhere that
it could break.

Also I ordered batteries from Aliexpress how long does it take them to ship ? as I don't see any shipping tracking on their website ?

John Hutton

With a DIY thread surely one of the key things to discuss is price cause it's useful for people thinking of doing similar themselves?

unkel

SCOL wrote: »

I'm going to fit my BBS02B mid drive this week, hopefully if will fit onto my Trek bike.

If your Trek bike has a standard BSA 68mm or 73mm threaded bottom bracket, it should fit no problem. Be careful with high end modern bikes, most of these have press fit bottom brackets

SCOL wrote: »

would I need to buy a heaver chain ? anyone any problems with broken chain as I read it somewhere that
it could break.

I am / was worried about this. Haven't replaced the chain yet, although I have given my setup plenty of abuse already (59V * 30A = 1800W to the motor rated for 750W) and no issues yet. If (when) my chain breaks, I will replace it with a heavy duty one

SCOL wrote: »

Also I ordered batteries from Aliexpress how long does it take them to ship ? as I don't see any shipping tracking on their website ?

There should be tracking. Still very much hit and miss though. Could be 3 weeks but could also be 6 weeks.

John Hutton

John Hutton wrote: »

With a DIY thread surely one of the key things to discuss is price cause it's useful for people thinking of doing similar themselves?

I've no issue with that but People can see the cost of the parts in the links.

SCOL

I fitted the motor to the bike last night, I had to make up longer blots for the ring that attached the motor to the crank. everything seem to be good and tight. Brakes and thumb throttle sorted also.

Just need to sort out the battery now !!!

SCOL

SCOL wrote: »

I fitted the motor to the bike last night, I had to make up longer blots for the ring that attached the motor to the crank. everything seem to be good and tight. Brakes and thumb throttle sorted also.

Just need to sort out the battery now !!!

Good luck post some pics when you're finished.

BBSHD ?

unkel

Yeah I also had to use spacers for the motor. I believe that's because the motor is made for 73mm BSA threaded BB and the bike I fitted it to had a 68mm BSA threaded BB.

Deleted User wrote: »

BBSHD ?

Go up just 2 or 3 posts and you'll see he is talking about a BBS02

Were you never tempted to fit a Bafang mid drive motor yourself as opposed to the very low torque mid drives you have worked with? Or did you get out of this game even before there were any Bafang mid drive motors? You should go back in! Far better choice now, far better value for money too.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Yeah I also had to use spacers for the motor. I believe that's because the motor is made for 73mm BSA threaded BB and the bike I fitted it to had a 68mm BSA threaded BB.



Go up just 2 or 3 posts and you'll see he is talking about a BBS02

Were you never tempted to fit a Bafang mid drive motor yourself as opposed to the very low torque mid drives you have worked with? Or did you get out of this game even before there were any Bafang mid drive motors? You should go back in! Far better choice now, far better value for money too.

No I'm out of the ebike building hobby since I got the Haibike with Bosch in 2013, wow , the years are flying by. It will be 7 years old in July.

Haven't really used it since my 2nd Son came along in 2015, I used to be able to take the Older lad out for spins in the finer weather and when I turn around after a few kms he'd be fast asleep but then No.2 came along and had started working shift by then too so my cycling days were numbered as I couldn't carry 2.

This year I hope to get away from shift and get back to regular working hrs, the time off was great but the 12 hrs, 2 hr drive and nights have finally caught up with me + it's getting harder for me driving home after nights and work keep putting the pressure on wanting more and more dven on nights, conditions have deteriorated a lot too so time to get out.

If I can get home at decent hr and do maybe 1 hr on the bike in the brighter evenings I would be more than happy with that an hour.

Anyway, I've heard there's a drag on the Bafang mid drives when there is no motor power just like the Bosch, though Bosch have seemingly finally fixed this for 2020 model year.

So, that would lead me towards a hub motor setup again with a small LiPo setup simply because the LiPo will give me the 2 Kw form a tiny 5 Ah battery which is more than enough for a 50 Km cycle with some decent hills. 60 volts 66 hot off the charger and 5 Ah would give me 300 watt hrs of energy which is enough for a proper cycle using mostly my legs but having plenty of power to get up hills fast. + there's no drag at all from the Geared MAC hub.

This time I would go with the 12T winding to give it much more torque + run cooler on hills making it more efficient than having a motor wound for more speed.

12 T Motor, 130 Nm Torque at 0 until 15 Km/hr , it still provides a more than useful torque of 90 Nm at 25 Km/hr which is more than enough for series hills. All with 16S Lipo, top speed around 45 Km/hr. Around 20 Km/hr less than with my 8T.

If I ran 50 amps battery current and 120 amp phase current I could get 160 Nm torque from 0-10 Km/hr and at 25 Km/hr I'd still have 100 Nm of torque.

It's handy to have the programming cable for the controller so you can adjust battery current for different battery setups and phase current to the motor and also low voltage cut off, if I were using LiPo I would just use the low voltage cutoff to give it some protection, say have a cut off at 3.6 volts x 16 = 57.6 volts and if the cells are balanced it should cut off at a good safe voltage while not running the battery completely down.

And after all that rambling I will probably just keep the bosch for all the cycling I will be able to do unless someone wants to buy it they can PM me and make me an offer. No point having 2 bikes.