The eBike thread

Lumen

Fat bikes are bloody slow under human power, compared to a decent MTB.

Would definitely want electric assist.

unkel

Lumen wrote: »

Would definitely want electric assist.

Of course. Did you check the thread title?

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

Fat bikes are bloody slow under human power, compared to a decent MTB.

Would definitely want electric assist.

Yes, that and small wheels, on the + small wheels provide more torque and are a lot easier on the motor.

SlowBlowin

I often say "how can they make it for that" when looking at Chinese products, but this takes the biscuit.

I am just too sceptical to believe in this deal. It must be cheaper for them just to re-purpose the battery and bits ?

That said I cant really see how its a scam ? Interestingly if you go to their main site at https://engwe-bikes.com/ they are all sold out, looks like they are out of business.

HOLD ON !!!!!!!!!! WARNING SIGNS - I think it might be a scam. A whois on the domain (https://engwebrand.com/) shows its was registered 2 days ago.... Am I just worrying too much ?

There's an Old saying, "if it sounds too good to be true , it must be".

Hopefully not the case here, don't want to see anyone get ripped off.

unkel

You're probably right. This really is far too good to be true. Not to worry though, pay with PayPal and you will get your money back (eventually)

unkel

unkel wrote: »

You're probably right. This really is far too good to be true. Not to worry though, pay with PayPal and you will get your money back (eventually)

You will if paypal themselves pay you back ? if it's a scam the money is unlikely to come from the seller ?

SlowBlowin

Interesting that they have 119 five star reviews, people happy with their bikes having received them, yet the domain was only registered 2 days ago. Also note that the reviews are not real, there is no third party involved, it is just text on the web page.

SlowBlowin

This is on the order page:

"full refund if you dont recive your order
full of partial refund, if item is not as described"

SlowBlowin

WOW imagine getting away with this refund policy, again taken from the order page, note the email address. !

Refund policy
Returns
Our policy lasts 30 days. If 30 days have gone by since your purchase, unfortunately we can’t offer you a refund or exchange.

To be eligible for a return, your item must be unused and in the same condition that you received it. It must also be in the original packaging.

Several types of goods are exempt from being returned. Perishable goods such as food, flowers, newspapers or magazines cannot be returned. We also do not accept products that are intimate or sanitary goods, hazardous materials, or flammable liquids or gases.

Additional non-returnable items:
- Gift cards
- Downloadable software products
- Some health and personal care items

To complete your return, we require a receipt or proof of purchase.
Please do not send your purchase back to the manufacturer.

There are certain situations where only partial refunds are granted (if applicable)
- Book with obvious signs of use
- CD, DVD, VHS tape, software, video game, cassette tape, or vinyl record that has been opened
- Any item not in its original condition, is damaged or missing parts for reasons not due to our error
- Any item that is returned more than 30 days after delivery

Refunds (if applicable)
Once your return is received and inspected, we will send you an email to notify you that we have received your returned item. We will also notify you of the approval or rejection of your refund.
If you are approved, then your refund will be processed, and a credit will automatically be applied to your credit card or original method of payment, within a certain amount of days.

Late or missing refunds (if applicable)
If you haven’t received a refund yet, first check your bank account again.
Then contact your credit card company, it may take some time before your refund is officially posted.
Next contact your bank. There is often some processing time before a refund is posted.
If you’ve done all of this and you still have not received your refund yet, please contact us at engwebrand@outlook.com.

krissovo

They have been trading on Alibaba, wish & gearbest for a while now so hopefully will be ok. I have had nothing but good experiences with Paypal so I am not worried for the sake of $100.

Here is the same bike on Gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/electric-bikes/pp_3007614361945584.html?wid=2000001

EDIT: Just had a look at the site again and got loads of pop up's ....... Lennod from Dublin, Colm from Cork, Danny from Tipperary have just ordered a bike :-)

SlowBlowin

krissovo wrote: »

They have been trading on Alibaba, wish & gearbest for a while now so hopefully will be ok. I have had nothing but good experiences with Paypal so I am not worried for the sake of $100.

Here is the same bike on Gearbest https://www.gearbest.com/electric-bikes/pp_3007614361945584.html?wid=2000001

EDIT: Just had a look at the site again and got loads of pop up's ....... Lennod from Dublin, Colm from Cork, Danny from Tipperary have just ordered a bike :-)

I think you are talking about Engwe NOT Engwebrand.

Totally different.

If I set up BMW-Brand.com, then offer BMWs for a grand, the fact that that people have had great previous experiences with BMW direct is irrelevant....

EDIT: Can you send me the link where you see these pop ups so I can check, I must be looking in the wrong place.

SlowBlowin

Now what is much more impressive is that they will offer the same bike, same price, shipped free of charge to Saint Helena in the South Atlantic ! Thats all from drop downs on the order page...

So they offer a 500 watt ebike, shipped in 7 days by UPS airfreight, to one of the most remote islands in the world, for $98.31.

Its a scam.

Course it's a scam, the fecking motor alone would cost more than 100 Dollars.

SlowBlowin

Back on topic, in a hypothetical world where throttles were allowed, what do you prefer thumb or twist ? I have only ever used a thumb throttle, and wonder if a twist would be better.

So for those who have tried both what do you prefer ?

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Course it's a scam, the fecking motor alone would cost more than 100 Dollars.

Hardly. I just bought a higher spec motor that cost far less than that, including shipping from China.

And you don't get "overstock" situations. I bought Samsung hoover board battery packs with BMS included that cost less per cell than the cheapest dodgiest Chinese 18650s you can find. Cheaper to sell as is than dismantle them and sell the parts. That's pretty much the definition of "overstock"

That said, this probably is a scam alright

SlowBlowin

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Back on topic, in a hypothetical world where throttles were allowed, what do you prefer thumb or twist ? I have only ever used a thumb throttle, and wonder if a twist would be better.

So for those who have tried both what do you prefer ?

I have tried both and without doubt, thumb is my preference.

The problem with twist throttle is that your hand is always "on the throttle" and I find it much smoother to be able to grip the handlebars and just use the throttle when I need with my thumb.

Twist is just much more awkward, to me at least.

SlowBlowin

To keep this thread about eBikes I started another thread about the bike website earlier:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058025691

I also sent an email to both the real and "fake" Engwe website contacts. I asked the manufacturer if the other site was a scam, and asked the "scam" site contact what cells were in the battery.

SlowBlowin

Deleted User wrote: »

I have tried both and without doubt, thumb is my preference.

The problem with twist throttle is that your hand is always "on the throttle" and I find it much smoother to be able to grip the handlebars and just use the throttle when I need with my thumb.

Twist is just much more awkward, to me at least.

I had heard that from several people elsewhere, including Andy Kirby, so that is good enough for me, hypothetically !

unkel

So, back to my fat bike then. How would you guys motor it if indeed I will take it off road and need quite a bit of assist anyway as it is an inefficient bike and it has to carry me up a hill, without too much manual labour?

Go front and rear geared hub motors like this mad fat bike? I like this idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecs9oTg7NAY

Either that or get a big powe direct drive motor for the rear wheel and just make sure I have enough power in my battery at all times? I also reasonably like this idea.

Mid drive is too expensive and I can't see much benefit, so I've ruled that out. Or is that a mistake?

Lumen

That ^^ is not what I would call a "fat bike". To me, a "fat bike" is a bike which substitutes enormous tyres for suspension. If you're going to have suspension, why would you bother with balloon tyres?

Anyway, that particular design bothers me because the hub motors create a lot of unsprung mass for the suspension to deal with.

Are you sure you don't just want an e-MTB?

unkel

No, you're quite right. I only showed that vid because it has 2 wheel drive geared hub motors. I will get a no suspension fat bike. And I will electrify it myself.

unkel

Got my LiitoKala capacity tester / charger and my 58.8V lithium charger in the post today.

Running my first capacity test on 4 cells from the pack from my old eBike that I demolished. 3 years old and well used for a heavy daily commute and even longer weekend trips.

Nearly half way through the first test and not looking great



Which would suggest a capacity of about 1300-1400mAh? Have to wait till the end of the test, but that would be disappointing. If that's all I'm getting, I'll consider dumping the lot and the vruzend kits and I'll just buy the LiFePo4 that Mad_Lad suggested.

black forest

Aaah....wait. The normal test can take up to 5 hours.

Looks like your batteries are still strong. The inner resistance is quite ok. These batteries had only 2.200mAh anyway when new. Trust me, i’ve the same LiitoKala since two years but i am using these batteries...

https://www.nkon.nl/de/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-18650-inr18650-25r.html

...for vaping.


I can highly recommend this shop. All my batteries are ordered there and sent to Germany for around 6€. Don’t know how much it would be to IRE. But have a look at the prices for 10 or more batteries.

And they are genuine.

unkel

Good man!

black forest wrote: »

These batteries had only 2.200mAh anyway when new.

Because the label says 22P? I guess so! Makes sense. It was a 10S4P pack I think, and was advertised as 8.8Ah, so indeed 2.2Ah per cell

black forest wrote: »

But have a look at the prices for 10 or more batteries.

But have a look at the price of 10 or more smokes (only kidding, those prices look great. I have seen that site recommended before)

You off the fags long? I'm off them nearly 13 years after being on them 20 years. There was no vaping when I gave them up, otherwise I'd probably still be vaping now.

unkel

Test finished. 1798mAh best of the four. Not too bad. I guess my next job is to mark their capacity individually with permanent marker and line up the next 4 cells for testing...

SlowBlowin

Coming back to the SCAM briefly, this now has been confirmed as a scam by Engwe so if you have ordered from that site you need to start the refund proces with your credit card company or paypal.

"Dear xxxxx,
Thanks for telling us, we have received several emails about this problem in these two days.
It must be a scam, and this site is not ours, we never authorize the other ones to sell our ebike on shopify or any other website.
We are going to complain this event to shopify to stop their activity.
Best regards,
Ning"

The original website is now gone, presumably they made a pile of cash !

Unkel, just save the time and hassle and get the LiPO not (LiFeP04) I suggested, it's not expensive and it will give you all the power you need and that's not even beginning to break a sweat, it will be so much easier than playing around with 18650s, forget about BMS and all that shenanigans because if the BMS fails then you could be in trouble.

Yes there is more of an initial investment, you have to buy and RC Balance + Power supply if the charger has none built in, mostly they don't. But once you have the charger you have it and you will make good use of it, then when you're more experienced and you know how to handle the batteries without a BMS you can get a Li charger set to the max series voltage you want, for instance , if you have 14S LiPO , charging to 4.15 max per cell, 4.2 is max for LiPo but it helps to charge them a bit less, then your total hot off the charger voltage will be 58.1 volts and about 53 volts nominal. So you can get a LiPo charger that charges to 58.1 volts and shuts off. This is called bulk charging and means that "IF" your cells are in balance , or , very close you will not have to split your pack up to parallel charge on the balance charger. usually the cells don't go out of balance much if you don't bring the pack voltage down low.

If you want to do trails then your mid drive is especially suited to this type of riding and it's easier on the battery, if you do go with mid drive eventually you can get a matching battery that easily mounts on the bike.

Dual hubs is fine but you will find it awkward, a mid drive is more centre balanced and feels a lot better on the road particularly on trails but hubs can heat up particularly fast on slow steep trails and especially geared hubs because they are usually smaller and can't dissipate heat as good as a direct drive hub.

black forest

unkel wrote: »

But have a look at the price of 10 or more smokes (only kidding, those prices look great. I have seen that site recommended before)

You off the fags long? I'm off them nearly 13 years after being on them 20 years. There was no vaping when I gave them up, otherwise I'd probably still be vaping now.

Stopped smoking five years ago nearly overnight after decades with 40 fags a day. Since one year i am vaping without nicotine just for the fun and the taste...and a bit as a habit.😄

Saved my life and made me taking on cycling. Lost 18 kilos last year but need to expand my range to use the bike as main transport. Which brought me to ebikes and this thread. So i hope to find a cheap diy solution for the untalented average noob. As a vaper i am used to order from Gearbest and the rest of the bunch.


Back to topic: nikon.nl is a reliable shop in the Netherlands. For small money they even weld your battery packs together as you like them. They have chargers for ebikes as well.

https://eu.nkon.nl/charger/bikebattery.html

Another good shop but not so cheap is Akkuteile in Germany. Very reliable and fast. They have LiFePo batteries as well.

https://www.akkuteile.de/

If mooch is the pope of all batteries then the mountainprophet is the guru...at least in Germany. He has his own page and forum. I just put up a few links to scroll through...

For translation.... https://www.deepl.com/en/translator

https://m.facebook.com/batterymooch/posts/here-are-the-links-to-all-my-test-reports-ratings-tables-blog-articles-and-answe/1802731556683089/

https://moochreviews.com/category/18650-bench-test-results/

http://www.mountainprophet.de/

http://www.mountainprophet.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=166


...and a complete test of the Liitokala in english:

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20LiitoKala%20Lii-500%20UK.html


Lots of stuff...have fun.:pac:


P.s. my (till now) not electrified ride.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Unkel, just save the time and hassle and get the LiPO not (LiFeP04) I suggested, it's not expensive and it will give you all the power you need and that's not even beginning to break a sweat, it will be so much easier than playing around with 18650s, forget about BMS and all that shenanigans because if the BMS fails then you could be in trouble.

Yes there is more of an initial investment, you have to buy and RC Balance + Power supply if the charger has none built in, mostly they don't. But once you have the charger you have it and you will make good use of it, then when you're more experienced and you know how to handle the batteries without a BMS you can get a Li charger set to the max series voltage you want, for instance , if you have 14S LiPO , charging to 4.15 max per cell, 4.2 is max for LiPo but it helps to charge them a bit less, then your total hot off the charger voltage will be 58.1 volts and about 53 volts nominal. So you can get a LiPo charger that charges to 58.1 volts and shuts off. This is called bulk charging and means that "IF" your cells are in balance , or , very close you will not have to split your pack up to parallel charge on the balance charger. usually the cells don't go out of balance much if you don't bring the pack voltage down low.

You have me convinced already. But all these things electric and renewable are a hobby now (much more to it than just eBikes) and I want to get a broad experience, so I'm in this phase now of building a decent 18650 pack from free cells I got from dead laptop batteries and a near death eBike battery. Doing the proper testing for internal resistance and capacity, best possible matching of the parallel groups and the actual lego like build with the vruzend kit. It's fun!

I'd say there is a very good chance I will turn to those high discharge LiPo packs next time around

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to do trails then your mid drive is especially suited to this type of riding and it's easier on the battery, if you do go with mid drive eventually you can get a matching battery that easily mounts on the bike.

Dual hubs is fine but you will find it awkward, a mid drive is more centre balanced and feels a lot better on the road particularly on trails but hubs can heat up particularly fast on slow steep trails and especially geared hubs because they are usually smaller and can't dissipate heat as good as a direct drive hub.

Just so I can make a fair comparison. What exact mid drive kit would you recommend (with links and a price) for a fat bike?

I've just done a bit of googling and even a normally cheap direct drive conversion kit isn't that cheap for a fat bike. This is about the best I can find at GBP240 including shipping for a wheel only with a 1500W motor:

Linky