Claims Crisis - Major Insurer pulls out saying claims culture and awards a joke

Franz Von Peppercorn II

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Or we could just move to a European type model where people don't get so drunk that they're falling over regularly.

That’s what I said. Except it will have to be enforced by the bars. And why “falling down drunk” - quite frankly the Irish courts would pay out to a full sober client who used an aerosol to create a flame which burned his or her hands.

Yes, indeed - given the nature of human ability, there will be a particular set of conditions involving the ability or disability of the person, the weather conditions (possibility of rain making it slippy), the lighting, the noise level (that may distract the person) - all of which are generally predictable - that will combine to create a situation where a person slips and gets injured.

Conditions that are true all over the world and Europe and yet insurance companies are not fleeing other jurisdictions.

Probably no need for the dramatic closing - there are solutions like metal studs or bars to provide grip on steps, and hand rails fitted to the centre of the staircase to ensure they work for everyone, rather than just one side

Or, rather than destroy the built environment, we should reform the clearly unfit for purpose judicial service.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

meeeeh wrote: »

I was watching Gardeners World yesterday (yeah I know I'm sad and old) and they showed the park in Germany in disused foundry. Families were walking around the buildings, even climbing into the towers, there was a rock clibing wall on one of the towers and so on.

An adult society with a functioning judiciary and legal system and a personal sense of responsibility can’t really be compared to here though.

Fish rots from the top. The bottom feeders couldn’t feed if this wasn’t enabled by a culture at the top legally and otherwise who justify it and encourage it.

Beta Ray Bill

JESUS CHRIST!!

Seven personal injury actions fall after assessor says 'cars never made contact'

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/seven-personal-injury-actions-fall-after-assessor-says-cars-never-made-contact-940169.html

Basically this woman and few people she never met before tried to claim personal injuries without even crashing the cars (Damage occurred in separate incidents).

This is the most unbelievable bit:

However, counsel for Ms Warren, Patrick Whyms BL, said after Judge Keys made his ruling: “No finding of fraud has been made and that is the beginning and the end of it.”

Judge Keys agreed saying: “I am not saying there is fraud.”

HOW can this not be fraudulent!?

Gatling

grahambo wrote: »

JESUS CHRIST!!

Seven personal injury actions fall after assessor says 'cars never made contact'

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/seven-personal-injury-actions-fall-after-assessor-says-cars-never-made-contact-940169.html

Basically this woman and few people she never met before tried to claim personal injuries without even crashing the cars.

This is the most unbelievable bit:



HOW can this not be fraudulent!?

This is why it will never change ,

It's pretty obvious that this was a fraudulent claim but the judge says no .
I'm only actually suprised they didn't award a payout


Here's another one school boy falls over and blamed a under inflated football. Judge actually saw sense in this case

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/schoolboy-hit-with-legal-bill-as-deflated-football-case-is-dismissed-38357804.html



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/schoolboy-hit-with-legal-bill-as-deflated-football-case-is-dismissed-38357804.html

It NEEDS to change. This industry simply strangles entreprenuerial projects in the holiday business which is becoming ever more important here.

Beta Ray Bill

Gatling wrote: »

This is why it will never change ,

It's pretty obvious that this was a fraudulent claim but the judge says no .
I'm only actually suprised they didn't award a payout

It's shocking.
Surely the Garda should be waiting for her and her "Friends" outside of court to bring them down to the station for some questions.
OR
The insurance company should claim for costs. I'd have imagined it would have cost a few quid for the MIBI to put up a defense for this.

The MIBI are certain the car hit a pole, AND she didn't disclose an "injury" she sustained a few years earlier which she got €2500 from.

Without a doubt, there should be a custodial sentence here.

thebiglad

Gatling wrote: »

This is why it will never change ,

It's pretty obvious that this was a fraudulent claim but the judge says no .
I'm only actually suprised they didn't award a payout


Here's another one school boy falls over and blamed a under inflated football. Judge actually saw sense in this case

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/schoolboy-hit-with-legal-bill-as-deflated-football-case-is-dismissed-38357804.html

But in both cases whilst successful against the claims the insurers concerned will have run up costs for professional reports(and staff costs) in preparing for court and then for legal representation and possibly experts to attend.

Just because a case is won does not mean there are no costs to be borne.

Meanwhile the claimants get to walk away to try another day...

Gatling

From what I understand of the situation a judge has to refer the case to the dpp before anyone acts on it ,(open to correction)

Beta Ray Bill

thebiglad wrote: »

But in both cases whilst successful against the claims the insurers concerned will have run up costs for professional reports(and staff costs) in preparing for court and then for legal representation and possibly experts to attend.

Just because a case is won does not mean there are no costs to be borne.

Meanwhile the claimants get to walk away to try another day...

Exactly
They (the defense) should be awarded costs, in cases where people are taking the pi$$

Harry Palmr

Great piece of reporting on a case thrown out by a Circuit Court judge in Waterford, the endless bad luck
of the Ward family would make a blockbuster.

https://waterford-news.ie/2019/07/31/no-reward-for-car-smash-family/

Conor Roberts BL, acting on behalf of the driver of the car, who was unable to give evidence due to an illness, asked Mrs Ward when the car had been purchased to which she relied “a few months ago”. Mr Roberts revealed that the car had actually been purchased on April 1, insured on April 4, and then crashed into a pillar on April 6. She responded to this by saying that she was in “deep shock” after the incident and “couldn’t be expected to remember everything”

Every time Mrs Ward was asked about this accident, or previous ones that she had made claims for, she said that she “couldn’t remember”. Giving evidence for Axa insurance, Mr Anthony Graham from their investigations unit said that Ann Marie Ward had made six previous claims, which had not been disclosed to the court. They involved two vehicle fire claims from 2009 and 2010, an incident in 2016 where she drove across the path of another vehicle, and also an incident in 2012 when she was in the car with Mary Ward, Ann Marie Jnr, Michael Ward and Kathleen Ward and a “black dog appeared out of nowhere”. All occupants of the car were compensated after that incident. Mrs Ward also received €12k for slipping in a pub 15 years ago and told the court that she received €50k for an accident that she has no memory of that happened about 15 years ago. She was asked if that was a single vehicle accident as well, on a quiet country road and she replied, “I think it was, but I don’t remember sir”. Her husband received €14k for that same incident.

The court heard that Mrs Ward had also acted as “next friend” for four claims that were made on behalf of her children. These took place in August 2011 (claim against Waterford Council), June 2015 (child hit by car), May 2016 (claim against Council after child fell down stairs) and June 2012 (claim on behalf of Kathleen Ward who was a minor at the time). There was also a claim against the council after one of her children broke an arm after falling into a pothole.

Beta Ray Bill

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Great piece of reporting on a case thrown out by a Circuit Court judge in Waterford, the endless bad luck
of the Ward family would make a blockbuster.

https://waterford-news.ie/2019/07/31/no-reward-for-car-smash-family/

12 KIDS!!!!!?????


JAAAAAYSIS!

markodaly

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Great piece of reporting on a case thrown out by a Circuit Court judge in Waterford, the endless bad luck
of the Ward family would make a blockbuster.

https://waterford-news.ie/2019/07/31/no-reward-for-car-smash-family/

That person should be hauled before the courts for fraud. Until this happens to these chancers, the situation will go on as it is.

harr

A friend of mine who owns a small business had a personal injury claim made against him last year a claim totally fictitious and he had cctv to prove it.
Anyway he passed it on to his insurance company and provided them with cctv footage.
He never heard another thing about it until his insurance renewal came in this week and it was €6000 dearer than last year and when he questioned why it turns out his insurance company paid €10000 to this person out of court and never informed him,
Now he has to option but to pay the huge increase as no other company will look at him.
Surely an insurance company would have to tell a costumer about any paid claims ?
In this instance it sounds like money grabbing from insurance company.

sydthebeat

harr wrote: »

A friend of mine who owns a small business had a personal injury claim made against him last year a claim totally fictitious and he had cctv to prove it.
Anyway he passed it on to his insurance company and provided them with cctv footage.
He never heard another thing about it until his insurance renewal came in this week and it was €6000 dearer than last year and when he questioned why it turns out his insurance company paid €10000 to this person out of court and never informed him,
Now he has to option but to pay the huge increase as no other company will look at him.
Surely an insurance company would have to tell a costumer about any paid claims ?
In this instance it sounds like money grabbing from insurance company.

nope...
this is, in a nutshell, 100% what is wrong with the whole industry.

that insurance company will recoup that payout over the next few years so ultimately your business friend has had to pay this fictitious claim out of their own pocket. The insurance company is never at a loss, and they have total control over your friend.

Your friend cannot insist on the insurance company fighting the claim without them absolving themselves of the indemnity (its in the terms and conditions)

there is absolutely no advantage for the insurance company in these cases to fight the claims... its easier to payout and recoup all the costs from the business owner....... and there is absolutely no fear of any action on the fraudster that makes the claim

the whole system is disgustingly fcuked up.

^^^^^^soinds like both parties insurance companies are complete bedfellows [\b]

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

^^^^^^soinds like both parties insurance companies are complete bedfellows [\b]

they dont have to be.
the whole industry runs that way.

Tony EH

sydthebeat wrote: »

nope...
this is, in a nutshell, 100% what is wrong with the whole industry.

that insurance company will recoup that payout over the next few years so ultimately your business friend has had to pay this fictitious claim out of their own pocket. The insurance company is never at a loss, and they have total control over your friend.

This.

In addition to courts making more of a fight on blatantly fraudulent claims, there should also be tighter regulations on insurance companies too, so this type of nonsense doesn't happen. Insurance is a dirty game full stop. But companies shouldn't be allowed to get away with passing on ridiculous price hikes to customers, because they don't want to go to the bother of fighting a fraudulent claim when it comes their way.

They'll move the sun, moon and fucking stars NOT to pay out for legitimate claims. But often don't bother contesting obvious piss takers, because they'll just fleece the punters anyway.

Gatling

There was a case this year involving I believe the same family where a car had hit a bridge on a dark night,
The accessors said that the car claimed for had been off the road for a number of years the tyres had cracked and had moss growth ,and the only way it got to the road was by being towed by another vehicle

Sweet.Science

So much wrong with this

https://waterford-news.ie/2019/07/31/no-reward-for-car-smash-family/


Multiple injury claims for the family
Crashed while house hunting. Advised to find a house they liked by the council and it would be bought for them

AustinLostin

Laughing at that caption under the dog picture.

drunkmonkey

Did you notice the seat belt in the picture I know people who drive like that. Just refuse to wear one and buckle it before they get in.

c.p.w.g.w

AustinLostin wrote: »

Laughing at that caption under the dog picture.

Can never be too careful, the dogs owner might try and claim his good name has been tainted

Wanderer78

Well known family!

Irishphotodesk

So who do you blame?...

The insurance industry for not investigating these types of claims 20-30+years ago ? Because of this we now have thousands of claims every year paid out without investigation because of previous inaction (precedent has been set very difficult to challenge it due to your own inaction in the past)

The legals for taking these kind of actions on ? The lady in this case can't read or write so the statement of claim was created by the legals, they know the system and know what questions to ask the client in order to maximise claim.

The individual who takes an action for damages which doesn't pass the burden of proof required ? Plenty of actions taken these days due to "chancing their arm"

The judges/legal system ? Obviously the system appears to be a self indulgent piece, rewarding the legals for getting their clients money (regardless of if the claim is 100% legit)


My blame is firmly with the insurance industry who created this issue and now try to blame the "culture" for increases in their industry, yet they post massive profits annually.

Sweet.Science

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

So who do you blame?...

The insurance industry for not investigating these types of claims 20-30+years ago ? Because of this we now have thousands of claims every year paid out without investigation because of previous inaction (precedent has been set very difficult to challenge it due to your own inaction in the past)

The legals for taking these kind of actions on ? The lady in this case can't read or write so the statement of claim was created by the legals, they know the system and know what questions to ask the client in order to maximise claim.

The individual who takes an action for damages which doesn't pass the burden of proof required ? Plenty of actions taken these days due to "chancing their arm"

The judges/legal system ? Obviously the system appears to be a self indulgent piece, rewarding the legals for getting their clients money (regardless of if the claim is 100% legit)


My blame is firmly with the insurance industry who created this issue and now try to blame the "culture" for increases in their industry, yet they post massive profits annually.

How did the insurance industry create this issue ?

Wheety

They'll be back in the courts with another claim eventually. There's no disincentive against it.

Boggles

Sweet.Science wrote: »

How did the insurance industry create this issue ?

Unvouched payouts.

Beta Ray Bill

This was posted yesterday here:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110844313&postcount=161

In the Giant insurance issue thread.

That thread should probably be renamed and sticky'd in fairness

gmisk

AustinLostin wrote: »

Laughing at that caption under the dog picture.

That is outstanding!


The poor woman is clearly traumatized she gets into more accidents than Frank Spencer!

pawdee

Are they Wards of the court?