Claims Crisis - Major Insurer pulls out saying claims culture and awards a joke

Eric Cartman

ChikiChiki wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/puck-fair-launches-gofundme-to-cover-rising-insurance-and-running-costs-937347.html

Puck Fair are fundraising to cover insurance. Absolutly damning stuff.

Can we not even just hoist a goat above the town and get pissed anymore, this country has gone insane.

whisky_galore

mad muffin wrote: »

Thank you veeery much, Leo.

Here's the thing, it's Joe Public that's gaming the system for the quick buck. The legalese are just happy to play along too.

Stephen15

As much as I hate the claims culture in this country this is one event that won't be missed by me anyway seemed tacky af

eagle eye

What's Oktoberfest? Is it an alcohol festival?
If so no harm that it's gone, drink culture in this country is way more out of hand than even insurance claims.

Gatling

eagle eye wrote: »

What's Oktoberfest? Is it an alcohol festival?
If so no harm that it's gone, drink culture in this country is way more out of hand than even insurance claims.

It's a bit of fun over good beer and food .

Harry Palmr

Nothing will change until the Galway races are cancelled!

dudara

Merging together two threads on the same topic. No need for a new thread.

dudara

Plumbthedepths

whisky_galore wrote:

Here's the thing, it's Joe Public that's gaming the system for the quick buck. The legalese are just happy to play along too.

If only there was some group that put together laws to halt this practice.

mad muffin

whisky_galore wrote: »

Here's the thing, it's Joe Public that's gaming the system for the quick buck. The legalese are just happy to play along too.

Here’s the real thing. The politicians are very quick to pass laws and create new taxes when it suite them. They could’ve overhauled the insurance segment, it suited them not to. As we have seen.

gerrybbadd

The Ballina Salmon Festival was also cancelled earlier this year, in part, due to rising insurance costs. This year would have been the 55th anniversary.

jmreire

whisky_galore wrote: »

Here's the thing, it's Joe Public that's gaming the system for the quick buck. The legalese are just happy to play along too.

There are 5 component's to this racket. The fraudsters, The Legal Eagles, The Insurance Company's, The Medical Consultant's. and last but nor least, the Government, because they get their financial cut too in tax's. But even worse, is the Government's failure to rein in this monster, which is slowly but surely eating away Irish Society like a cancer. How many business's will be closed and how many jobs lost between now and Jan. 1st 2020? :mad:

whisky_galore

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If only there was some group that put together laws to halt this practice.

Turkeys don't usually vote for Xmas, do they?

Plumbthedepths

whisky_galore wrote:

Turkeys don't usually vote for Xmas, do they?

Yeah but the 'Turkeys' told us they wanted to deal with this and lower insurance costs.

Damien360

mad muffin wrote: »

Here’s the real thing. The politicians are very quick to pass laws and create new taxes when it suite them. They could’ve overhauled the insurance segment, it it suited them not too. As we have seen.

It’s not the insurance sector that needs an overhaul, it’s the entire legal system. The bank bailout 10 years ago identified a major issue with costs in the legal sector. They advised change and the state refused to play ball. Judges are political appointees and they weren’t going to upset the gravy train.

mad muffin

Damien360 wrote: »

It’s not the insurance sector that needs an overhaul, it’s the entire legal system. The bank bailout 10 years ago identified a major issue with costs in the legal sector. They advised change and the state refused to play ball. Judges are political appointees and they weren’t going to upset the gravy train.

99% of these payouts are settlements. So it’s got nothing to do with judges.

The insurance companies are willing to settle out of court because they k ow that they can recoup the costs with rising premiums. Except now it’s coming back to bite them on the arse, because no one can afford the costs any,ore.

jmreire

Damien360 wrote: »

It’s not the insurance sector that needs an overhaul, it’s the entire legal system. The bank bailout 10 years ago identified a major issue with costs in the legal sector. They advised change and the state refused to play ball. Judges are political appointees and they weren’t going to upset the gravy train.

Nail on the head !!! But when it comes to following EU directives, the Govt is very selective. See what is happening now with Carbon issues....we HAVE to do it.... it's a EU Directive. But Law Reform?

Damien360

mad muffin wrote: »

99% of these payouts are settlements. So it’s got nothing to do with judges.

The insurance companies are willing to settle out of court because they k ow that they can recoup the costs with rising premiums. Except now it’s coming back to bite them on the arse, because no one can afford the costs any,ore.

They settle because the risk of a stupidly high payout in court is too high. 60k payout vs massive legal bills to both their own and other party legal team.

mad muffin

Damien360 wrote: »

They settle because the risk of a stupidly high payout in court is too high. 60k payout vs massive legal bills to both their own and other party legal team.

Still, it sits squarely in the governments lap. They could’ve done something about it but they didn’t.

sydthebeat

I will gladly vote for whatever party has a workable plan to get our insurance system closer to the EU standard.

The book of quantum needs to be scraped for non life affecting injuries. Claims need to be paid in health bill vouchers, or billed directly to the insurance company. Fraudulent or over stated claims need to have a legal deterrent. Soft tissue injuries which only require physio and soft medication should have a maximum claim limit for inconvenience. All claims paid out of court need to be published for public viewing, and the bills of the associated legal teams published as well. The 1% rule needs to be abolished. Much more substantial credence needs to be applied to personal negligence and the actions of the claimant. Judges should be made give a very detailed schedule of awards, ie how much for medical (past and future), how much for legal, how much for debilitating costs, how much for future loss of earns etc.... Therefore each judge can be assessed as their awards and the outliers put back into check. This schedule should be accessible for public viewing.

jmreire

sydthebeat wrote: »

I will gladly vote for whatever party has a workable plan to get our insurance system closer to the EU standard.

The book of quantum needs to be scraped for non life affecting injuries. Claims need to be paid in health bill vouchers, or billed directly to the insurance company. Fraudulent or over stated claims need to have a legal deterrent. Soft tissue injuries which only require physio and soft medication should have a maximum claim limit for inconvenience. All claims paid out of court need to be published for public viewing, and the bills of the associated legal teams published as well. The 1% rule needs to be abolished. Much more substantial credence needs to be applied to personal negligence and the actions of the claimant. Judges should be made give a very detailed schedule of awards, ie how much for medical (past and future), how much for legal, how much for debilitating costs, how much for future loss of earns etc.... Therefore each judge can be assessed as their awards and the outliers put back into check. This schedule should be accessible for public viewing.

+1......in spade's !!! :mad:

anacc

sydthebeat wrote: »

I will gladly vote for whatever party has a workable plan to get our insurance system closer to the EU standard.

The book of quantum needs to be scraped for non life affecting injuries. Claims need to be paid in health bill vouchers, or billed directly to the insurance company. Fraudulent or over stated claims need to have a legal deterrent. Soft tissue injuries which only require physio and soft medication should have a maximum claim limit for inconvenience. All claims paid out of court need to be published for public viewing, and the bills of the associated legal teams published as well. The 1% rule needs to be abolished. Much more substantial credence needs to be applied to personal negligence and the actions of the claimant. Judges should be made give a very detailed schedule of awards, ie how much for medical (past and future), how much for legal, how much for debilitating costs, how much for future loss of earns etc.... Therefore each judge can be assessed as their awards and the outliers put back into check. This schedule should be accessible for public viewing.

I broadly agree with your post but not with publishing all claims paid out of court for public viewing. You shouldn’t need to affect the privacy of decent people with genuine claims.

sydthebeat

anacc wrote: »

I broadly agree with your post but not with publishing all claims paid out of court for public viewing. You shouldn’t need to affect the privacy of decent people with genuine claims.

I would have the opinion that, as out of court insurance payouts affect EVERYONE ELSE'S premium payments, then your privacy is negated by this fact.

Genuine case or not.

anacc

sydthebeat wrote: »

I would have the opinion that, as out of court insurance payouts affect EVERYONE ELSE'S premium payments, then your privacy is negated by this fact.

Genuine case or not.

Neither publishing or not publishing the payout in a genuine case is not going to have a material impact on the price of an insurance premium so your point is invalid. And further, even if it somehow did impact the cost of the premium I would still argue that in a genuine case a person’s right to privacy is more important.

sydthebeat

anacc wrote: »

Neither publishing or not publishing the payout in a genuine case is not going to have a material impact on the price of an insurance premium so your point is invalid. And further, even if it somehow did impact the cost of the premium I would still argue that in a genuine case a person’s right to privacy is more important.

You're certainly allowed to argue that.... And I would certainly disagree.

Out of court settlements absolutely effect everyone's premium, and why should that be kept private? What would people be loosing by it being published?

Varik

As said pay for treatment of medical issues directly rather than payouts that instead of helping treat anything go on a holiday and new car.

Have solicitors sign a declaration for any other cost claims and if it's found that the little scratch on a car didn't amount to a total write off then strike them off the roll of solicitors, might be a bit more honest in coming up with numbers.

Not sure what you could do about those who claim inability to work or loss of income. What's to be done about someone who's happy to take a lifetimes worth of painkillers and physio sessions that they don't need if it means they can still claim disability off the goverment and loss of income from the insurers. Or even just for a while, paid sick leave on the insurers dime.

Jurgen The German

sydthebeat wrote: »

I will gladly vote for whatever party has a workable plan to get our insurance system closer to the EU standard.

The book of quantum needs to be scraped for non life affecting injuries. Claims need to be paid in health bill vouchers, or billed directly to the insurance company. Fraudulent or over stated claims need to have a legal deterrent. Soft tissue injuries which only require physio and soft medication should have a maximum claim limit for inconvenience. All claims paid out of court need to be published for public viewing, and the bills of the associated legal teams published as well. The 1% rule needs to be abolished. Much more substantial credence needs to be applied to personal negligence and the actions of the claimant. Judges should be made give a very detailed schedule of awards, ie how much for medical (past and future), how much for legal, how much for debilitating costs, how much for future loss of earns etc.... Therefore each judge can be assessed as their awards and the outliers put back into check. This schedule should be accessible for public viewing.

Well said, cannot disagree with anything here. On the claims settlements, the amounts paid out by insurers are readily available and have been for years. The central bank publish an annual report which is usually about 18 months behind and it details the income received and the amounts paid out in claims. It's not granular as in there is no break down of out of court and court settlements but total figures are available.

Beta Ray Bill

One of Dublin's most popular autumn attractions has been axed.

Oktoberfest was due to take place in the city centre later this year and was first held at George's Dock in 2008.

Despite attracting huge numbers every year since, this year's event has been cancelled.

It was due to take place in the IFSC from September 14, but organisers say there have been "unprecedented increases" in their insurance premium.

In a statement, they say rising insurance costs mean "fun events like ours find it hard to go ahead".

"As much as we love coming to Dublin and doing our event with you guys the 2019 event cannot go ahead due to unprecedented increases in our insurance premium."

They say, in Germany, they are "not used to the claim culture that has developed in Ireland and therefore we have decided to take a break this year."

The group said they plan on returning with the event in 2020, writing: "We would like to take this opportunity to thank all of our loyal patrons and Irish partners that have helped us with the event over the years and ask you to look forward to Oktoberfest 2020."

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/oktoberfest-dublin-cancelled-due-to-unprecedented-increases-in-insurance-premium-939184.html

My €0.02 on this:

This is a hugely popular event and attracts a hell of a lot of people.
It's not cheap either, they must make a fortune. Yet despite this they are pulling out because of Insurance/Claim Culture.

I knew the problem was bad, but I didn't think it was this bad.
I think this is the first time I've felt the hit of the insurance/claims issue in terms of stuff I like not being available anymore.

I take it that some years it was poorly organised and that going down on Friday/Sat night was a bit mental, but I enjoyed heading down after work (Or even at lunch time)
Crappy times ahead

99problems1

The group said they plan on returning with the event in 2020

Something fishy going on here.

Post entirely making excuse why they are not going ahead this year. Usually these groups only say "due to unforeseen circumstances" or something.

Jamie2k9

I don't buy it however good to increase the pressure on Government on compo culture.

cruizer101

And so it begins. With Leisure Insure pulling out of the market altogether (link) and significant increases in premiums elsewhere, occurrences like this are going to become more and more common.
And what has the government done to help so far, sweet feck all.