Claims Crisis - Major Insurer pulls out saying claims culture and awards a joke

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/thousands-of-jobs-at-risk-after-main-insurer-for-leisure-sector-pulls-out-38329493.html

Thousands of jobs at risk after main insurer for leisure sector pulls out

But she said British insurers regard this market as a "basket case" due to high awards and frequent claims.

UK operator LeisureInsure said it will not quote for new business from this week, and from the end of the month will cease all renewals.

It was one of the last few insurers covering event companies, bouncy castle operators, leisure centres, yoga classes, soccer teachers, drama classes, some play centres and a large number of leisure companies.

Fair play tbh - we need reality checks.

And some defending the stupid scale of claims and the amounts being awarded.

Here is the rub - it costs all of us more in insurance and ultimately jobs and livelihoods.

And yet there are some who will defend FG to the hilt, fraudulent claims brushed under the carpet is the party line of callous indifference.

Kermit.de.frog

Half a billion paid out in claims last year (not including out of court settlements!)


It's an actual crisis. That is damage, real damage to everyone in the country financially.

McMurphy

The fish rots from the head, when you have ministers - meps and TDs on the take for easy money, then you shouldn't be surprised when the everyday plebs do be at it too.

If those who make the law, abuse the law, they should face sanctions much more severe than the rest of us, as heard in an interview a few months back - as they're public figures, so should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us.

lola85

Report that maria bailey is been booted out of FG this morning.

McMurphy

Alan Farrell must feel like the cat who got the cream so.

Kivaro

lola85 wrote: »

Report that maria bailey is been booted out of FG this morning.

Not a chance. Varadkar is a coward and will not do that.
What will happen is that he will remove the party whip from her ........... and here's the kicker ............ for an indeterminate amount of time.

Meanwhile, Fine Gael's continued response to the insurance compensation crisis in Ireland can best be described as:

Faugheen

lola85 wrote: »

Report that maria bailey is been booted out of FG this morning.

The Governemnt is threadbare as it is. Not a chance Varadkar will do that.

2 things

1. Insurance companies often do not contest claims: Rather pay out and recoup from the customer. Then complain about settlements
2. Insurance companies report next to no cases of potential insurance fraud, to AGS, because of this there is no penalty to Swing cases

Widdensushi

Deleted User wrote: »

2 things

1. Insurance companies often do not contest claims: Rather pay out and recoup from the customer. Then complain about settlements
2. Insurance companies report next to no cases of potential insurance fraud, to AGS, because of this there is no penalty to Swing cases

Obviously they have the sums done on which option is cheaper ,if they fought them all the cost would be crazy

They obviously do report some fraud and they see what happens from that that it is pointless .

Sonny noggs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

2 things

1. Insurance companies often do not contest claims: Rather pay out and recoup from the customer. Then complain about settlements
2. Insurance companies report next to no cases of potential insurance fraud, to AGS, because of this there is no penalty to Swing cases

Do they do number 1 because the judges are so unpredictable that in even the most clear cut case the decision can go either way? Regardless of the facts...

Sonny noggs

Widdensushi wrote: »

Obviously they have the sums done on which option is cheaper ,if they fought them all the cost would be crazy

They obviously do report some fraud and they see what happens from that that it is pointless .

The insurance companies also needs to start reporting ‘suspect’ legal professionals to their respective regulatory bodies.

Plumbthedepths

Deleted User wrote:

And yet there are some who will defend FG to the hilt, fraudulent claims brushed under the carpet is the party line of callous indifference.

It's ok Leo took the party whip off Bailey, that'll fix it. Farrell and Madigan breathing a sigh of relief.

sydthebeat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

2 things

1. Insurance companies often do not contest claims: Rather pay out and recoup from the customer. Then complain about settlements
2. Insurance companies report next to no cases of potential insurance fraud, to AGS, because of this there is no penalty to Swing cases

100% agreed.

We had a claim made against us in my work... Competely spurious as the issue was directly caused by the claimant themselves.... We vociferously argued this with the insurance company who told us that they were going to pay out and if we wanted to challenge it in court they would refuse to indemnify us.

They paid out meekly.

Raised our PI insurance to such a level that we had the total amount of the claim paid back to then within 3 years...

Insurance is the only industry you cannot make a loss in.

Insurance companies go out of business due to bad gambling in their side.

ChikiChiki

lola85 wrote: »

Report that maria bailey is been booted out of FG this morning.

Doubtful.

lola85

Pearse Doherty also showed the insurance companies are only happy to pretend fraud is the reason they are ripping people off.

One big gravy train for a lot of people.

Widdensushi

Widdensushi wrote: »

Obviously they have the sums done on which option is cheaper ,if they fought them all the cost would be crazy

They obviously do report some fraud and they see what happens from that that it is pointless .

They obviously cannot provided any evidence of either

Del2005

[Deleted User] wrote: »

2 things

1. Insurance companies often do not contest claims: Rather pay out and recoup from the customer. Then complain about settlements
2. Insurance companies report next to no cases of potential insurance fraud, to AGS, because of this there is no penalty to Swing cases

Do you know how much it costs to fight a case in our courts? With our out of touch judges if insurance companies fight they have to pay 2 legal teams and the huge payout if they loose, if they win they still have to pay for their legal team.

When judges make a ruling in favour of the insurance company they never charge the person making the fraudulent claim with purjury. So why should the insurance companies report suspect cases when bona fida fraudulent claims don't have any consequences for the person who lied?

The people making money out of this is the legal industry and they won't reform.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They obviously cannot provided any evidence of either

Provide evidence of fraud? Shouldn’t the AGS be investigating.

The real problem is the judiciary. We by and large have the same laws as Britain but we have a non functional judiciary.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

lola85 wrote: »

Pearse Doherty also showed the insurance companies are only happy to pretend fraud is the reason they are ripping people off.

One big gravy train for a lot of people.

Maybe, but in this case the insurance company is pulling out.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Provide evidence of fraud? Shouldn’t the AGS be investigating.

The real problem is the judiciary. We by and large have the same laws as Britain but we have a non functional judiciary.

They have to report it to AGS first,but I was referring to the statement that they have evidence that AGS will do nothing about it

Sonny noggs

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Maybe, but in this case the insurance company is pulling out.

The insurance company was making too much money, they couldn’t cope so are pulling out.

1641

An insurance claim can be rejected if the court can be convinced that it is bogus/fradulent on the “balance of probability" (more then 50/50). However, if prosecuted for fraud it would have to be proven "beyond reasonable doubt", which is a much higher standard.

But the size of awards of Ireland must be more of an issue. For example, the average "soft tissue" injury award is about €17,000 as against about €4,000 in the UK. This incentivises our claims culture. The Law Society has been fighting consistently against bringing in controls on this.

biko

Maria Bailey, now with source
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/maria-bailey-set-to-lose-fg-whip-over-swing-compensation-claim-1.3961865

Fine Gael is set to remove the party whip in the Dáil from Dún Laoghaire TD Maria Bailey over her controversial personal injuries claim against a Dublin hotel.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is expected to announce next week what action will be taken against Ms Bailey on foot of an internal party report into her claim against The Dean hotel on Dublin’s Harcourt Street for falling off a swing.

punisher5112

Them pesky swings taking our TDs jobs.....

eagle eye

So this has turned into a FG witchhunt already.
Now I'm certainly not a fan of FG but this is much bigger than that. We have travellers and unemployed who are making claims left, right and centre.
It's widespread and it's got a lot to do with the same liberal Nazis that tell you not to dare say anything that's not positive about anybody they deem as a minority. The judges are afraid to tell them they don't believe them for fear of being shot down by these liberal groups.

1641

1641 wrote: »

An insurance claim can be rejected if the court can be convinced that it is bogus/fradulent on the “balance of probability" (more then 50/50). However, if prosecuted for fraud it would have to be proven "beyond reasonable doubt", which is a much higher standard.

But the size of awards of Ireland must be more of an issue. For example, the average "soft tissue" injury award is about €17,000 as against about €4,000 in the UK. This incentivises our claims culture. The Law Society has been fighting consistently against bringing in controls on this.

How many suspected claims have the insurance federation reported to AGS?

Plumbthedepths

eagle eye wrote:

So this has turned into a FG witchhunt already. Now I'm certainly not a fan of FG but this is much bigger than that. We have travellers and unemployed who are making claims left, right and centre. It's widespread and it's got a lot to do with the same liberal Nazis that tell you not to dare say anything that's not positive about anybody they deem as a minority. The judges are afraid to tell them they don't believe them for fear of being shot down by these liberal groups.

FG witch-hunt? You have FG claiming they were going to tackle high insurance costs and at the same time you have two FG TD's involved in insurance fraud and a sitting FG minister cast as an ambulance chaser. FG only cared about insurance fraud until their own members were found to be fraudsters.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

FG witch-hunt? You have FG claiming they were going to tackle high insurance costs and at the same time you have two FG TD's involved in insurance fraud and a sitting FG minister cast as an ambulance chaser. FG only cared about insurance fraud until their own members were found to be fraudsters.

Its not a good look.

Balf

They presumably need to do something to draw attention away from Josepha Madigan.

Its also reported that Josepha looked after the initial claim to the PIAB for Maria. Does this mean that Josepha provided the initial legal advice, to the effect that Maria should pursue the claim?

More to see here. And the big picture issue won't go away either.

Plumbthedepths

Balf wrote:

Its also reported that Josepha looked after the initial claim to the PIAB for Maria. Does this mean that Josepha provided the initial legal advice, to the effect that Maria should pursue the claim?

Bailey claimed on the SOR programme that she was assured she had an open and shut case. Bailey's problem was the Press-up group wouldn't roll over. The owner of said group has no love for FG considering how a pervious FG government tried to stitch him up.
I suspect ( and I 'm sure many others do aswell)Madigan advised her to pursue the claim assuming it owuld be settled out of court.