Water charges for excessive usage

Benedict

PopTarts wrote: »

When are the letters for excessive usage to start being sent out?

Apologies if answered already!!

The following is from the official IW site:


"We intend to begin writing to customers in quarter three 2019 to inform customers they are using in excess and how they can conserve water and address leaks."


Presumably, "quarter three 2019" is July, August, September.


It would be interesting to know if anyone in the country has received a letter from IW.


What they're saying is that if you've already been going over quota, they will not bill you provided you mend your ways and take heed of their "letter". But if you continue to breach the quota despite their warning, they'll bill you for the coming year PLUS for the period already gone by.


Incidentally, this only applies to those with meters. If you don't have a meter? Well! Lucky you!

McMurphy

Took the kids to the movies yesterday, and low and behold, nice Irish Water propaganda video before the movie was aired.

They're definitely trying to 'soft soap' the general public for a round two of getting them to part with their hard earned money.

Benedict

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Took the kids to the movies yesterday, and low and behold, nice Irish Water propaganda video before the movie was aired.

They're definitely trying to 'soft soap' the general public for a round two of getting them to part with their hard earned money.

The crucial question is "Will the quota & charges apply equally to all users".


If the answer is "No" then the current plan will fail.


And the answer is indeed "No".


IW is desperately trying to steer the discussion away from this question. But it is futile. They need to shred the plan now because it is doomed.

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

The crucial question is "Will the quota & charges apply equally to all users".


If the answer is "No" then the current plan will fail.


And the answer is indeed "No".


IW is desperately trying to steer the discussion away from this question. But it is futile. They need to shred the plan now because it is doomed.

You seem to be very worried. If you repair any leaks and conserve water, you won’t be troubled.

Benedict

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be very worried. If you repair any leaks and conserve water, you won’t be troubled.[/QUOT


You were asked to show how exactly IW can assess the usage of homes with no meter.


We are still waiting.


That's what you should be concentrating on now.

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote:

You seem to be very worried. If you repair any leaks and conserve water, you won’t be troubled.

Any large household should be worried. The quota seems per house regardless of how many people live in the house.

A person living alone can be very wasteful and may not fall foul of the quota. A large family being very frugal with water may be hit with charges.

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be very worried. If you repair any leaks and conserve water, you won’t be troubled.[/QUOT


You were asked to show how exactly IW can assess the usage of homes with no meter.


We are still waiting.


That's what you should be concentrating on now - not making personal comments.


But you haven't a clue what the answer is have you?

Any decent plumber would answer your questions. I doubt you’d believe them any more than you would believe me. I’m not in any way worried. I believe in conservation. Waste not, want not. (Not just water) There are very few households going over the suggested allowance.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Benedict wrote: »

Any decent plumber would answer your questions. I doubt you’d believe them any more than you would believe me. I’m not in any way worried. I believe in conservation. Waste not, want not. (Not just water) There are very few households going over the suggested allowance.

"There are very few households going over the suggested allowance"
That's an interesting claim, can you back it up with evidence?

Benedict

Deleted User wrote: »

Benedict wrote: »

Any decent plumber would answer your questions. I doubt you’d believe them any more than you would believe me. I’m not in any way worried. I believe in conservation. Waste not, want not. (Not just water) There are very few households going over the suggested allowance.

If you know how IW can assess the usage of non-metered homes, just tell us. Because nobody else knows except you and we'd love you to share.


If you think you can enlighten us, please let us know - and you might let IW know while you're at it because they don't know either.


Go off now and figure out how to answer the question and if you can answer the question, great. Otherwise, I personally will be ignoring your comments completely.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"There are very few households going over the suggested allowance"
That's an interesting claim, can you back it up with evidence?

I’m sure that a quick google will answer any questions as I very much doubt that my answers are acceptable.

About 10% of households already exceed the allowance but most of those are possibly result of leaks.

There are a lot of mights and mays, but this will give you the gist of the proposal.

“ Irish householders who use excessive amounts of water may be hit with wastage fees of up to €500, it has been revealed.

And up to 70,000 households could be slapped with the charges next year if Irish Water get the go-ahead to implement the fees.

The utility company have submitted a proposal to the Commission for the Regulation of Utilities who will decide if fees should be introduced by the end of the month.

And the regulator has already shown some support for the plan, noting that it “broadly satisfied the principles of fairness and equity”, The Irish Times reports.

However, the re-introduction of fees in any sense is likely to be met with staunch opposition.

It comes three years after Irish Water were forced to suspend household fees after they were met with intense resistance from both the public and politicians.

Irish Water proposing a charge of €1.85 for every 1,000 litres used above the threshold of 213,000 litres per year, with a cap of €250.

Excess wastewater charges will also be capped at €250. And if a residence uses both fresh water, and wastewater, the householder would be liable for a charge of up to €500.

However, monitoring water usage could prove difficult as less than one million (60%) of Irish households have a water meter.

Irish Water have proposed an investigative method for the remaining 40% of unmetered homes, using a district meter to pinpoint excess usage.

Householders will then be offered the option of a water meter or flow monitoring device installed in their home.

If Irish Water's proposal is approved, customers can except a first "call to action" notification later this summer.

Approximately 10% of Irish Water customers use excess water, however, leaks account for much of this waste.

The "call to action" will offer a free repair service to customers who are losing water through a leak.

Those who are identified as using excess amounts of water will be given 12 months to reduce their use.

The first bills for excess use would be then issued from October 2020.

Exemptions may be granted in cases whether a family member with a medical condition.

Families with over four members can claim an allowance of 25,000 cubic metres per annum for every additional member.“


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-water-waste-water-fees-16494450

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I’m sure that a quick google will answer any questions as I very much doubt that my answers are acceptable.

About 10% of households already exceed the allowance but most of those are possibly result of leaks.

There are a lot of mights and mays, but this will give you the gist of the proposal.

“ Irish householders who use excessive amounts of water may be hit with wastage fees of up to €500, it has been revealed.

And up to 70,000 households could be slapped with the charges next year if Irish Water get the go-ahead to implement the fees.

The utility company have submitted a proposal to the Commission for the Regulation of Utilities who will decide if fees should be introduced by the end of the month.

And the regulator has already shown some support for the plan, noting that it “broadly satisfied the principles of fairness and equity”, The Irish Times reports.

However, the re-introduction of fees in any sense is likely to be met with staunch opposition.

It comes three years after Irish Water were forced to suspend household fees after they were met with intense resistance from both the public and politicians.

Irish Water proposing a charge of €1.85 for every 1,000 litres used above the threshold of 213,000 litres per year, with a cap of €250.

Excess wastewater charges will also be capped at €250. And if a residence uses both fresh water, and wastewater, the householder would be liable for a charge of up to €500.

However, monitoring water usage could prove difficult as less than one million (60%) of Irish households have a water meter.

Irish Water have proposed an investigative method for the remaining 40% of unmetered homes, using a district meter to pinpoint excess usage.

Householders will then be offered the option of a water meter or flow monitoring device installed in their home.

If Irish Water's proposal is approved, customers can except a first "call to action" notification later this summer.

Approximately 10% of Irish Water customers use excess water, however, leaks account for much of this waste.

The "call to action" will offer a free repair service to customers who are losing water through a leak.

Those who are identified as using excess amounts of water will be given 12 months to reduce their use.

The first bills for excess use would be then issued from October 2020.

Exemptions may be granted in cases whether a family member with a medical condition.

Families with over four members can claim an allowance of 25,000 cubic metres per annum for every additional member.“


https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-water-waste-water-fees-16494450

It's an article not evidence of your claim, although it's interesting that only 60 per cent are metered. Soz but the charges in that instance ain't going fly.
It must be galling for those that supported the charges, some even claiming (almost gleefully) that taxes would have to be increased due to abolition of charges.
Hard to know if it's ideology or idiocy.

Snow Garden

Deleted User wrote: »

Benedict wrote: »

Any decent plumber would answer your questions. I doubt you’d believe them any more than you would believe me. I’m not in any way worried. I believe in conservation. Waste not, want not. (Not just water) There are very few households going over the suggested allowance.

My own plumber was livid with the superquango setup and when they installed his meter, he dug it up and redirected the pipes so that there was only a trickle going through the meter. I am pretty sure he did the same for some of his neighbours.

K.Flyer

Benedict wrote: »

You were asked to show how exactly IW can assess the usage of homes with no meter.

We are still waiting.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any decent plumber would answer your questions..

A good plumber might, but you obviously cannot.
You obviously have no clue and nothing to back up your claims, otherwise you would post it here.

K.Flyer

K.Flyer wrote: »

A good plumber might, but you obviously cannot.
You obviously have no clue and nothing to back up your claims, otherwise you would post it here.

It was explained in the article I posted.

Fanny Wank

pablo128 wrote: »

Any mention of Middle Ireland yet?

I'm led to believe they were stiffed once but am assured they won't be stiffed again

Benedict

IW cannot - I repeat cannot - send a bill to No 157 Anywhere Avenue for overuse of 100 litres water if that home does not have a meter because they cannot know how much that home has used.

That is a fact.

K.Flyer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It was explained in the article I posted.

None of that is set in stone, so at this moment in time without a meter I.W. cannot quantify over usage. Even using a group meter is not a sure fire way to assess the over usage of any one dwelling.
They can only ascertain that there is a leak, but in a scheme of hundreds of properties, that is not proof of over usage.
They still cannot get it right.

charlie14

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Took the kids to the movies yesterday, and low and behold, nice Irish Water propaganda video before the movie was aired.

They're definitely trying to 'soft soap' the general public for a round two of getting them to part with their hard earned money.

I haven`t seen it, but after their "rain falls from clouds" classic ads made with a large wedge of taxpayers money, I`m all a tremble in anticipation.


No end to how this quango can burn money.

Benedict

Just for the record, the entry which begins "Any decent plumber...." is headed Benedict - but it has nothing to do with me.

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

Just for the record, the entry which begins "Any decent plumber...." is headed Benedict - but it has nothing to do with me.

No? Maybe you edited it while I was typing and your original post, which I quoted, was posted.

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote:

No? Maybe you edited it while I was typing and your original post, which I quoted, was posted.

I think he was talking about one of my posts. The boards gremlins were at work and made it look like I was quoting him when I wasn't quoting him at all. I removed the dodgy Post when I was made aware of it. Leaving it up would have been confusing

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Benedict wrote: »

There are very few households going over the suggested allowance.

First sensible think you have said in some time I actually agree with.Now if you could just put a bit of thought into this new FG/IW latest brainfart rather than simply regurgitating their propaganda we might actually get somewhere.

We have seen a large fortune of taxpayers money already squandered on metering where 50% of treated water was pissing out of mains and now you are backing another fortune squandered messing around with district meters looking for these very few households while 50% is still pissing out of mains. Not to mention there is no way on God`s green earth (from IW themselves) to determine what apartments are using.

Seriously Mary in what universe does that make any economic or even moral sense ?

Edit. Gremlins still in the system it seems when quoting posts.

I think that there’s a gremlin in the works. Some quoted posts are coming up funny.

Benedict

charlie14 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

First sensible think you have said in some time I actually agree with.Now if you could just put a bit of thought into this new FG/IW latest brainfart rather than simply regurgitating their propaganda we might actually get somewhere.

We have seen a large fortune of taxpayers money already squandered on metering where 50% of treated water was pissing out of mains and now you are backing another fortune squandered messing around with district meters looking for these very few households while 50% is still pissing out of mains. Not to mention there is no way on God`s green earth (from IW themselves) to determine what apartments are using.

Seriously Mary in what universe does that make any economic or even moral sense ?

Edit. Gremlins still in the system it seems when quoting posts.

Best not to quote, just write fresh.

Benedict

If this thread has shown anything at all it has shown that the plan to hammer metered homes with quotas and fines while allowing non-metered homes free to do as they please is a dead duck and should be buried ASAP.

is_that_so

Benedict wrote: »

charlie14 wrote: »

Best not to quote, just write fresh.

It's all your fault Benedict cos you forgot to close the quote in a post. Do that and it will all go away!:D

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111616697&postcount=996

Benedict

is_that_so wrote: »

Benedict wrote: »

It's all your fault Benedict cos you forgot to close the quote in a post. Do that and it will all go away!:D

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111616697&postcount=996

Sorry about that.

Brendan Bendar

Middle Ireland was stiffed,and stiffed badly once.

Won’t be stiffed again.

This one will not run..... the game is up

blanch152

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You don't read posts very well do you?

I have a blind hatred of the way FG handled /mishandled the setting up of Irish water and water charges.

They threatened, bullied and tried to bribe us. As time went on they actually managed to turn people who supported charges against charges. They set our police force against people who were exerciseing their constitutional right to protest. Gardai made false claims of assault. The courts were clogged with these cases. I witnessed several of the them. Six gardai in court as witnesses. Only the arresting officer witnessed the assault. The assault was a teenager raising his hands to his chest so he wouldn't bump into the garda. The judge wanted to know what the other gardai were there for. One drove the teenager to the police station. Another was a desk seargent. Another brought him his meal. It was utter nonsense. The gardai knew it, the solicitor knew it & the judge knew it. One guy (my nephew) had about 8 court visits in total. He's autistic & epileptic. He suffers with his nerves. He spent most of the time puking in the toilet. At one stage the judge promised nothing would happen to him but he had to continue just the same.

FG did more damage in those few years than any government. It will take Generations to get trust back for the gardai and the so called justice system. These people no longer trust the government, the gardai, DPP or the court system. They were badly let down. I wasn't marching with them but they had a constitutional right to protest and FG tried to take this right away from them.

Tell me about this constitutional right to protest. I looked and I can’t find it in the Constitution.

Sleeper12

blanch152 wrote: »

Tell me about this constitutional right to protest. I looked and I can’t find it in the Constitution.

Freedom of expression

You have a right to freely express your convictions and opinions (Article 40.6.1.i). However, the Constitution asserts that the State should try to make sure that the radio, the press and the cinema are not used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State. It also states that it is an offence to publish or utter blasphemous, seditious or indecent matter.
Following a referendum in May 2018, the Thirty-seventh Amendment of the Constitution (Repeal of offence of publication or utterance of blasphemous matter) Act 2018 has removed the word “blasphemous” from the Constitution.
There are some limitations on your freedom of expression. For example, the Censorship of Publications Acts and the Censorship of Films Acts allow censorship of publications like books, films and DVDs.
Freedom of assembly

You have a right to assemble or meet peacefully and without weapons (Article 40.6.1.ii). This right is limited by legislation to protect public order and morality. The law prevents or controls meetings that are calculated or designed to cause a riot or breach of the peace.
There are other limitations on your freedom of assembly. You cannot meet on private property without the consent of the owner - that is trespass. Parades and processions are not illegal but it is a public nuisance to obstruct a highway. You may not hold a procession or meeting within half a mile of the Houses of the Oireachtas when it has been prohibited by the Gardaí or you have been asked to disperse.
Freedom of association

The Constitution guarantees your right to form associations and unions (Article 40.6.1.iii). You may form any type of association for whatever purpose you choose, whether it is sporting, social, charitable, commercial or political.
This right is limited by legislation to protect public order and morality. For example, associations formed for the purpose of treason or some anti-constitutional or illegal purpose cannot rely on this right to freedom of association.

Apart from the constitution protecting your right to protest it is also human right