Water charges for excessive usage

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Neither did the mob who were at the event.
Hundreds of Thousands protested. Jobstown was small in the scheme of things but it certainly cwas seized upon by some to tar all protesters with the one brush
Every good reason for dawn arrests, curb public order and the gathering of flash mobs as soon as the word came out.

No there wasn't but it was done to send a message to the plebs
Was the guy who “cost the country millions “ there on appointment?

Nope he was asked to attend.
If he was, what’s your problem?

No problem B, just seems odd that some seem to be handled by our justice system in a different manner. Maybe it's ones attire, a suit versus a tracksuit.
You wish to see everyone treated equally rings hollow considering your response tbh.
Btw it was billions he cost the country, not millions.

Brendan Bendar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No problem B, just seems odd that some seem to be handled by our justice system in a different manner. Maybe it's ones attire, a suit versus a tracksuit.
You wish to see everyone treated equally rings hollow considering your response tbh.

Don’t know how you extrapolate that P, I really don’t.

Do you, for instance, think that a member of some of our well known gangs would agree to be arrested by the Guards?

The Guards are not total idiots, they are not going to provide opportunities for mobs to do a Jobstown as it were.

I dont recollect any mobs trying to defend the lad who “cost the country billions’ I don’t recollect anything happening at his arrest either outside the courts or inside.

The Guards don’t do ‘one size fits all’ - because it doesn’t.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Don’t know how you extrapolate that P, I really don’t.

Do you, for instance, think that a member of some of our well known gangs would agree to be arrested by the Guards?

Are you comparing those that protested at Jobstown to the likes of the Kinahens or Dundowns?

The Guards are not total idiots, they are not going to provide opportunities for mobs to do a Jobstown as it were.
Do a Jobstown? Care to elaborate?


I dont recollect any mobs trying to defend the lad who “cost the country billions’ I don’t recollect anything happening at his arrest either outside the courts or inside.

I suspect you know exactly what I mean but are pretending otherwise.
The Guards don’t do ‘one size fits all’ - because it doesn’t.

Do you think arresting a minor in the early hours of the morning was justified whereas another is allowed turn up to the station at his leisure.
As I said your notions of equality are selective.

Brendan Bendar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you think arresting a minor in the early hours of the morning was justified whereas another is allowed turn up to the station at his leisure.
As I said your notions of equality are selective.

Incorrect Pee, what I am saying was pointed out in a previous post.

I am not going to keep repeating myself while you infer incorrectly what I am saying just to keep going round in circles..

Sorry dude.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Incorrect Pee, what I am saying was pointed out in a previous post.

I am not going to keep repeating myself while you infer incorrectly what I am saying just to keep going round in circles..

Sorry dude.

It's you yourself that has shown your notion of equality is dependent on the situation. Evidence is there in your comments.
Btw I have family in the guards, even they have said the way the protests were dealt with was wrong and damaging to the reputation of the force at the time.
I'll leave It at that no point revisiting the protests but they achieved their goal.
Have a good one.

Brendan Bendar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's you yourself that has shown your notion of equality is dependent on the situation. Evidence is there in your comments.
Btw I have family in the guards, even they have said the way the protests were dealt with was wrong and damaging to the reputation of the force at the time.
I'll leave at that no point revisiting the protests but they achieved their goal.
Have a good one.

I don’t think I mentioned ‘equality’ at any stage Pee.

But while you either deliberately or by mistake insert stuff into quotes attributed to me, I feel there is no further point in continuing a reasoned discussion.

Sleeper12

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Like the Jobstown mob?

I'm not against water charges & I think it was terrible trapping those women in the car BUT this has been through a court of law & despite Gardai lying on the stand No one was convicted of a crime.


The DPP is supposed to be independent as are the Gardai yet the gardai did dawn raids on these homes when arrest/questioning by appointment is the norm. The DPP brought 10 cases it knew it couldn't win. FG has done untold damage to the reputation of the DPP & the Gardai. I have been in court rooms & heard Judges tell people they are no longer allowed protest! This in itself is illegal & was quickly pointed out by the solicitors.



FG seemed to have thought they were running a police state. Shame on Enda Kenny & co.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I don’t think I mentioned ‘equality’ at any stage Pee.


Everyone pays or noone pays I believe you have said that repeatably as part of your self appointed role as spokesman for Middle Ireland, that dear boy is equality whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Yet you have no issue with people who are accused of crimes being treated by the law differently. I thought everyone was equal under the eyes of the law.



But while you either deliberately or by mistake insert stuff into quotes attributed to me, I feel there is no further point in continuing a reasoned discussion.

I'm finished discussing it as water charges are dead for the foreseeable future, yet over a billion wasted when it could have improved the water infrastructure. Ironic.

Brendan Bendar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm finished discussing it as water charges are dead for the foreseeable future, yet over a billion wasted when it could have improved the water infrastructure. Ironic.

Please stop attributing quotes to me which are not accurate.

Please stop attributing attitudes and stances to me unless you can back them up with proper accurate quotes.

Thank you

Benedict

So far, this thread has shown strong evidence to support the following:

(1) The non-metered half of users are a mixture of those who wouldn't allow installation and those who didn't already have meters when IW walked off the job (and didn't come back).

(2) There can be no question of non-metered houses being subjected to quotas. The notion that the non metered homes will be measured for usage and fined if necessary is ridiculous. The "frogs" that are to be slowly boiled are the homes with meters.

(3) The EU does not absolutely oblige the Govt. to introduce water charges.

(4) The plan to introduce charges for one half of the users while effectively giving an amnesty to the other half is unfair and discriminatory and cannot work in a democracy. In fact even in a non-democratic country, it would probably give rise to civil unrest if introduced.

Snow Garden

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Please stop attributing quotes to me which are not accurate.

Please stop attributing attitudes and stances to me unless you can back them up with proper accurate quotes.

Thank you

You got humiliated in the mega Irish Water threads back in the day but you cant resist coming back for more. I admire that

Alan Dukes (2015): "A glorious, god-awful mess has been made of Irish Water, we've ended up with a system now that no rational person would have invented if they had sat down to put this kind of system together. The hope must be that it will work lamely until some sort of coherent system is put in place"

Snow Garden

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The guards didn't distinguish themselves in the subsequent court cases. Came across as a bunch of liars tbh. Even the judge couldn't accept their evidence.
Dawn arrests, yet a guy who cost the country billions was arrested on appointment.

I don't like Paul Murphy but Fine Gael really showed their utter arrogance when they sent 6 Gardaí to arrest him at dawn. The guy could be found in the Dail ever other day!
Waste of money and resources for a police force that was already deep in corruption accusations (and rightly so).

It was embarrassing and exemplified the political policing that was happening at the time. It backfired. I am ashamed that I voted FG for 20 years but I am trying my best to undo that now.

Brendan Bendar

Snow Garden wrote: »

You got humiliated in the mega Irish Water threads back in the day but you cant resist coming back for more. I admire that

Alan Dukes (2015): "A glorious, god-awful mess has been made of Irish Water, we've ended up with a system now that no rational person would have invented if they had sat down to put this kind of system together. The hope must be that it will work lamely until some sort of coherent system is put in place"

I did’nt get “humiliated on any thread back in the day”.

I will always fairly put forward my points and I will fully agree that a god-awful mess was made of Irish Water.

I have never defended the modus operandi used to set up that body.

They made a total dogs dinner of the set up.

PopTarts

When are the letters for excessive usage to start being sent out?

Apologies if answered already!!

Brendan Bendar

Snow Garden wrote: »

I don't like Paul Murphy but Fine Gael really showed their utter arrogance when they sent 6 Gardaí to arrest him at dawn. The guy could be found in the Dail ever other day!
Waste of money and resources for a police force that was already deep in corruption accusations (and rightly so).

It was embarrassing and exemplified the political policing that was happening at the time. It backfired. I am ashamed that I voted FG for 20 years but I am trying my best to undo that now.

Let’s deal in facts shall we.

Fine Gael don’t send Gardai anywhere.

pablo128

Any mention of Middle Ireland yet?

charlie14

PopTarts wrote: »

When are the letters for excessive usage to start being sent out?

Apologies if answered already!!

If they have any sense, 1st. of never.

With it being Irish Water there is most likely some convoluted explanation that is as clear as mud, but I doubt there will be many paying much heed too it.

charlie14

pablo128 wrote: »

Any mention of Middle Ireland yet?

Reported lost by Fine Gael.

Garda Siochana carrying out inquiries

Sleeper12

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Let’s deal in facts shall we.

Fine Gael don’t send Gardai anywhere.

Oh go on now. Next you'll be trying to tell us that Kenny didn't sack the Garda commissioner :pac::pac::pac:




You are just about the only person in the country that believes that FG didn't instruct the Garda commissioner to make dawn raids & instruct the DPP to charge them with offenses that the DPP knew they never had a chance of winning. The Gardai lying would have been obvious to the DPP before this ever got to court. FG has seriously damaged the reputation of the Garda, DPP & the courts themselves.


Just in case you aren't aware Dawn raids is NOT the usual way the Gardai make arrests like this. They don't usually bring the media on such raids either.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Let’s deal in facts shall we.

Fine Gael don’t send Gardai anywhere.

They sent Martin Callinan into retirement Brenner.

Brendan Bendar

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Oh go on now. Next you'll be trying to tell us that Kenny didn't sack the Garda commissioner :pac::pac::pac:




You are just about the only person in the country that believes that FG didn't instruct the Garda commissioner to make dawn raids & instruct the DPP to charge them with offenses that the DPP knew they never had a chance of winning. The Gardai lying would have been obvious to the DPP before this ever got to court. FG has seriously damaged the reputation of the Garda, DPP & the courts themselves.


Just in case you aren't aware Dawn raids is NOT the usual way the Gardai make arrests like this. They don't usually bring the media on such raids either.

Once again you are conflating roles and authorities.

The Garda Commissioner is appointed by the Govt who also have the power to remove.

The Govt do not interfere with Garda operational activities, that is the responsibility overall for the Commissioner,via those carrying out those activities.

Sleeper12

Brendan Bendar wrote:

The Govt do not interfere with Garda operational activities, that is the responsibility overall for the Commissioner,via those carrying out those activities.

FG has proved the above not to be true.

If you don't want to believe me I suggest that you ask a Garda if those arrests were standard practice or an extraordinary event for this type of charge. Ask any solicitor if the DPP would normally bring charges in a case that they knew they couldn't win. The DPP usually won't put Gardai on the stand knowing that they are going to lie.

You do understand what happened in this case right? The DPP evidence or lack of was so bad that they withdrew the charges. The DPP does not under normal circumstances charge people without evidence & a chance of winning. There is absolutely no doubt that this case was totally politically motivated and politically influenced. Again, FG has damaged the reputation Gardai, DPP and the court system itself.

Brendan Bendar

Sleeper12 wrote: »

FG has proved the above not to be true.

If you don't want to believe me I suggest that you ask a Garda if those arrests were standard practice or an extraordinary event for this type of charge. Ask any solicitor if the DPP would normally bring charges in a case that they knew they couldn't win. The DPP usually won't put Gardai on the stand knowing that they are going to lie.

You do understand what happened in this case right? The DPP evidence or lack of was so bad that they withdrew the charges. The DPP does not under normal circumstances charge people without evidence & a chance of winning. There is absolutely no doubt that this case was totally politically motivated and politically influenced. Again, FG has damaged the reputation Gardai, DPP and the court system itself.

FG has proved nothing.

I never suggested these arrests were standard practice.

They were carried out to avoid a rent-a-crowd complete with bullhorns and resultant prospect of violence turning up at the homes of arrestees once the word got out,and making ‘martyrs’ of them.

In my opinion that’s the reason.


You then continue to make assumptions about the DPP which is pure speculation and purely your opinion, which has no basis whatsoever in anything you could be aware of.

Sleeper12

Brendan Bendar wrote:

I never suggested these arrests were standard practice.

Brendan Bendar wrote:

They were carried out to avoid a rent-a-crowd complete with bullhorns and resultant prospect of violence turning up at the homes of arrestees once the word got out,and making ‘martyrs’ of them.

Do you know that even drug dealers are arrested by appointment? They may well raid his house at 6am but 9 months down the road when it's time to arrest him & charge him it's usually done by appointment.

You say that these arrests were to avoid a circus yet the media was notified. The media were able to report live as the arrests were being made. Even if it was to avoid a circus why send six Gardai when one is the norm. Why did they surround the house? Why did some Gardai go in the back as others went in the front? These guys (scumbags IMO) were treated like a members of the Kinahan or Hutch gang. Its not even unusual for plain clothes be used but in this case it was uniforms, squad cars and sirens ablaze!

Your feeble excuses don't stand up to scrutiny. The Gardai actually created a circus. They were trumped up charges that the DPP themselves had to withdraw. It was politically motivated plain and simple.

I don't know why you continue to try defend the way FG handled this. It was an abuse of power in the same way that Enda sacking the commissioner was an abuse of power. It was also very illegal and unconstitutional.

Brendan Bendar

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Do you know that even drug dealers are arrested by appointment? They may well raid his house at 6am but 9 months down the road when it's time to arrest him & charge him it's usually done by appointment.

You say that these arrests were to avoid a circus yet the media was notified. The media were able to report live as the arrests were being made. Even if it was to avoid a circus why send six Gardai when one is the norm. Why did they surround the house? Why did some Gardai go in the back as others went in the front? These guys (scumbags IMO) were treated like a members of the Kinahan or Hutch gang. Its not even unusual for plain clothes be used but in this case it was uniforms, squad cars and sirens ablaze!

Your feeble excuses don't stand up to scrutiny. The Gardai actually created a circus. They were trumped up charges that the DPP themselves had to withdraw. It was politically motivated plain and simple.

I don't know why you continue to try defend the way FG handled this. It was an abuse of power in the same way that Enda sacking the commissioner was an abuse of power. It was also very illegal and unconstitutional.

I’m not defending anyone just outlining why things can happen as they do.

You seem to be very anxious to hang all the blame on a political party.

You seem very anxious to second guess the gardai and their way of conducting operations.

Last I heard the commissioner resigned.

Sleeper12

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I’m not defending anyone just outlining why things can happen as they do.

You seem to be very anxious to hang all the blame on a political party.

You seem very anxious to second guess the gardai and their way of conducting operations.

Last I heard the commissioner resigned.

I hang it with FG because they orchestrated the whole thing. They ordered the dawn raids with the media in toe to scare other protesters. They proved that there is no separation between the DPP & the government. In fact thinking it through leaves me wondering what they can cover up behaving the way they did. I mean I know Alan Shatter was minister for justice when he refused to give a breath test at a mandatory test road block. If that was you of I we would have ended up in the station for refusing to give a breath test.


I believe in charging for water & they messed it up. Messed it up like no government before them had. I now truly despise FG& everything it stands for.

Brendan Bendar

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I hang it with FG because they orchestrated the whole thing. They ordered the dawn raids with the media in toe to scare other protesters. They proved that there is no separation between the DPP & the government. In fact thinking it through leaves me wondering what they can cover up behaving the way they did. I mean I know Alan Shatter was minister for justice when he refused to give a breath test at a mandatory test road block. If that was you of I we would have ended up in the station for refusing to give a breath test.


I believe in charging for water & they messed it up. Messed it up like no government before them had. I now truly despise FG& everything it stands for.

Based on that, I really don’t think this ‘discussion’ will lead to any conclusion.

Sleeper12

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Based on that, I really don’t think this ‘discussion’ will lead to any conclusion.

It's taken you a long time to see this. No one believes the excuses you are making for the disaster created solely by FG. You should have retired a few hours ago & saved some embarrassment

Brendan Bendar

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's taken you a long time to see this. No one believes the excuses you are making for the disaster created solely by FG. You should have retired a few hours ago & saved some embarrassment

I have seen nothing from your posts which contributed anything solid to this discussion only blind hatred of a political party, unsubstantiated accusations, inaccurate quotations, inaccurate statements, and quite frankly a mish-mash of subject matter which has the hallmarks of something bordering on an obsession.

Sleeper12

Brendan Bendar wrote:

I have seen nothing from your posts which contributed anything solid to this discussion only blind hatred of a political party, unsubstantiated accusations, inaccurate quotations, inaccurate statements, and quite frankly a mish-mash of subject matter which has the hallmarks of something bordering on an obsession.

You don't read posts very well do you?

I have a blind hatred of the way FG handled /mishandled the setting up of Irish water and water charges.

They threatened, bullied and tried to bribe us. As time went on they actually managed to turn people who supported charges against charges. They set our police force against people who were exerciseing their constitutional right to protest. Gardai made false claims of assault. The courts were clogged with these cases. I witnessed several of the them. Six gardai in court as witnesses. Only the arresting officer witnessed the assault. The assault was a teenager raising his hands to his chest so he wouldn't bump into the garda. The judge wanted to know what the other gardai were there for. One drove the teenager to the police station. Another was a desk seargent. Another brought him his meal. It was utter nonsense. The gardai knew it, the solicitor knew it & the judge knew it. One guy (my nephew) had about 8 court visits in total. He's autistic & epileptic. He suffers with his nerves. He spent most of the time puking in the toilet. At one stage the judge promised nothing would happen to him but he had to continue just the same.

FG did more damage in those few years than any government. It will take Generations to get trust back for the gardai and the so called justice system. These people no longer trust the government, the gardai, DPP or the court system. They were badly let down. I wasn't marching with them but they had a constitutional right to protest and FG tried to take this right away from them.