Mini Cooper SE (EV)

unkel

Launched today. Built in the UK. Should be available early 2020 (hopefully Brexit won't interfere). Largely based on the leccy bits of the i3 (which is not a bad thing)

List price GBP24.4k after the GBP3.5k incentive. Should translate to not much more than EUR26k here with our EUR5k incentive (but slightly higher VAT). Pretty damn good for a premium supermini

184BHP, 235km range, 0-100km/h in 7s. I want one :cool:

Linky





Interesting take from the Verge, they reckon Krüger, who became BMW CEO when their electric program was in full swing, resigned in the last few days taking the blame for blocking the further development of EVs. That was a huge mistake of course. BMW was well ahead of the rest. Could have been world leader in EVs by now.

Linky

Mike9832

Not a chance its €26,000 here

Don't do it yourself

Bit meh to me

Matches i3 specs, 5 years on

Surely they could have put a bigger battery in and 100kW charging in?

The bloody eCorsa looks more appealing

BMW have lost it lately

bk

unkel wrote: »

Interesting take from the Verge, they reckon Krüger, who became BMW CEO when their electric program was in full swing, resigned in the last few days taking the blame for blocking the further development of EVs. That was a huge mistake of course. BMW was well ahead of the rest. Could have been world leader in EVs by now.

Linky

He joined after the i3 launched, canned the next EV product and most of the i3 team left to join NIO, a Chinese EV company. And since then, BMW have done feck all with EV's after a great start with the i3.

I'd say sales of Tesla are really starting to cut into BMW's numbers and they have little to answer it. I feel BMW are the most impacted of any of the premium car companies by Tesla.

I've said it before. The traditional car companies might have great engineers, loads of factories, etc. But if they don't have strong leadership at the top who is willing to take risks, many of them might find themselves responding far too slowly to changing market conditions and end up in serious trouble.

Companies often have very conservative leaders at the top, who end up not giving those great engineers the R&D money to work on risky projects or spend the money to re-tool factories, etc.

I'm grabbing my popcorn, I think there will be quiet a few Nokia moments to come for the car industry ahead.

unkel

Well said, bk and I couldn't agree more. It's infuriating as BMW is my favourite car maker, more than half of all the cars I have owned were BMWs. They could have been on top right now. Books will be written on why BMW appointed Krüger CEO back in 2015. I hope it is not too late and this will not turn into a story of one of the greatest fall downs in corporate history like Nokia and Kodak. From being the best to gone in just a few years

ELM327

I wonder if it's on the i3 platform, does that mean it's RWD?

D3V!L

11 years ago a neighbour of mine in Munich had one Its taken BMW this long to get it to market !!

Mike9832

Mike9832 wrote: »

Not a chance its €26,000 here

Looks like it will be around that price

That's pretty good value then

The Mini Cooper S with similar performance is alot more expensive

Should have similar range to Ioniq 28kWh? Won't be a dog on juice like the Leaf?

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I wonder if it's on the i3 platform, does that mean it's RWD?

FWD and 184 PS (135 kW). Will have ok performance but other than that feels like a spec for a car that was launcing in 2016/17. It's totally outclassed in range by any recent reveals.

Old diesel

unkel wrote: »

Launched today. Built in the UK. Should be available early 2020 (hopefully Brexit won't interfere). Largely based on the leccy bits of the i3 (which is not a bad thing)

List price GBP24.4k after the GBP3.5k incentive. Should translate to not much more than EUR26k here with our EUR5k incentive (but slightly higher VAT). Pretty damn good for a premium supermini

184BHP, 235km range, 0-100km/h in 7s. I want one :cool:

Linky





Interesting take from the Verge, they reckon Krüger, who became BMW CEO when their electric program was in full swing, resigned in the last few days taking the blame for blocking the further development of EVs. That was a huge mistake of course. BMW was well ahead of the rest. Could have been world leader in EVs by now.

Linky

There will be a WTO tarriff of 10 percent in a no deal Brexit.

I would estimate that to be 2790 on entry level based on.....

UK price BEFORE grant there of 27900 sterling.

2790 sterling is 10 percent of the 27900.

Converted to euros - that's a price of 34,136 before Irish grant.

Thus 29 k with 5 grand SEAI grant.

Will VRT be zero?????

Edit - the WTO tarriff could end up been calculated on the 27900 converted to euros.

Would add around 4/500 euros.

So around 34500 or thereabouts pre grant.

I'm actually liking this too hence trying to run the figures

...Ghost...

samih wrote: »

FWD and 184 PS (135 kW). Will have ok performance but other than that feels like a spec for a car that was launcing in 2016/17. It's totally outclassed in range by any recent reveals.

The people buying these will be less interested in performance specs and more interested in it being a cute mini. The majority are young female drivers, some of whom deface their vehicles with synthetic eyebrows above the headlight. :rolleyes:

Old diesel

Guillaume Seguin at Irish EV owners association is reporting....

27,765 euros including Grant entry level

30,405 euros Mid spec

35,695 euros for top spec.

He is giving those as on the road prices.

Not bad given that the Mini is meant to be a premium offering.

Old diesel

In the past a MINI would have been 8 to 10 k dearer then say a VW Up.

So to be frank - regardless of what you think of this from MINI it looks as though one of the following options are in play.

1) MINI have tried to minimise the EV premium over ICE.

OR.

A nice commuter budget. EV offering from mainstream small cars - Suzuki, Dacia, VW etc for 20 k or less is VERY doable..

Which option do we go for......

Silent Running

How many years has that shape Mini been around, 18 years? Along with the Fiat 500, it's one of my pet hate cars. I still have a lot of love for the original Mini and these fugly yokes are a marketing exercise, not a tribute.

It would have been a great coup if they had designed and launched a new shape for the Mini with a choice of electric or ICE.

Mike9832

Old diesel wrote: »

In the past a MINI would have been 8 to 10 k dearer then say a VW Up.

So to be frank - regardless of what you think of this from MINI it looks as though one of the following options are in play.

1) MINI have tried to minimise the EV premium over ICE.

OR.

A nice commuter budget. EV offering from mainstream small cars - Suzuki, Dacia, VW etc for 20 k or less is VERY doable..

Which option do we go for......

Makes total sense

I really don't know how EV's are so expensive

Take away the battery and everything else is cheaper than ICE

Electric motors, inverters, controllers etc are alot cheaper than modern diesel engines and the bits they need

Would love to see a cost breakdown of a modern EV

pdpmur

ELM327 wrote: »

I wonder if it's on the i3 platform, does that mean it's RWD?

It's on a mini platform, so probably FWD as it will need all the underseat and boot space that it can find to stuff batteries into.

BMW made a decision not so long ago to develop platforms that can accommodate a mix of drivetrains (ICE, hybrid or EV), so it looks in the near future that there won't be any BMW car that is a ground-up ev-only product (i.e no skateboard platform). Yer man Krüger will be cursed by many for years to come for this particular brain fart and the consequent waste of the whole new manufacturing process for their i3 and i3 cars and loss of their development team.

Mike9832

Seems its only 28kWh useable and wltp range is 200km

Thats Leaf30 range, Leaf40 has like 285 wltp range

What a wasted opportunity by BMW

https://insideevs.com/news/359134/over-40000-customers-interest-mini-electric/

Mickeroo

Yeah should have been a 40kwh battery at a minimum when you look at what the other super minis are going for.

It will still do well on the appeal of the Mini brand though I have no doubt but definitely a missed opportunity.

pdpmur

Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah should have been a 40kwh battery at a minimum when you look at what the other super minis are going for.

There just isn't the room in the ICE-developed mini platform to squeeze in enough batteries - it takes the whole floorpan of the BMW i3 to accommodate 42kWh of batteries based on battery chemistry currently available to them off the shelf.

unkel

Mike9832 wrote: »

Seems its only 28kWh useable and wltp range is 200km

Thats Leaf30 range, Leaf40 has like 285 wltp range

If it is real life range of 200km, like Ioniq with also 28kWH usable, that's fine

L30 has nowhere near as much real life range. L40 is similar enough as Ioniq in real life (see the real life ADAC test). As long as there is a reasonable charging network, it's fine. Even here in Ireland we should be fine by this time next year

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

If it is real life range of 200km, like Ioniq with also 28kWH usable, that's fine

L30 has nowhere near as much real life range. L40 is similar enough as Ioniq in real life (see the real life ADAC test). As long as there is a reasonable charging network, it's fine. Even here in Ireland we should be fine by this time next year

Mini CD is 0.30

Doesn't look good there

3 series has 0.24, BMW should crack on with that tone

unkel

With that Cd it won't get more than about 110 km at 120km/h in winter

So you were right then to compare it to L30

AidenL

unkel wrote: »

Well said, bk and I couldn't agree more. It's infuriating as BMW is my favourite car maker, more than half of all the cars I have owned were BMWs. They could have been on top right now. Books will be written on why BMW appointed Krüger CEO back in 2015. I hope it is not too late and this will not turn into a story of one of the greatest fall downs in corporate history like Nokia and Kodak. From being the best to gone in just a few years

Same here. I’ve owned loads of BMWs since 1998.

Right now, I wouldn’t even consider one. Anyone in the market for a 3 Series or larger would hardly buy one over a Tesla - well I wouldn’t anyway.

I do suspect a few Nokia moments also. I’d be amazed if it was BMW , but it’s possible. I see Daimler issued a profit warning today also.

Imagine if the short sellers shorting Tesla are missing the big picture of the dead asleep incumbent premium manufacturers caught dead out of the starting blocks.

Mike9832

AidenL wrote: »

Same here. I’ve owned loads of BMWs since 1998.

Right now, I wouldn’t even consider one. Anyone in the market for a 3 Series or larger would hardly buy one over a Tesla - well I wouldn’t anyway.

I do suspect a few Nokia moments also. I’d be amazed if it was BMW , but it’s possible. I see Daimler issued a profit warning today also.

Imagine if the short sellers shorting Tesla are missing the big picture of the dead asleep incumbent premium manufacturers caught dead out of the starting blocks.

They are all in a crazy situation

All it takes is ICE demand to drop off by a bit and they are screwed

If it drops off in a big way in the next 24 months, going to be alot of mergers/autogiants folding

They are all up to eyeballs in debt too, VW are €200 billion in it and they are far from the worst

McGiver

unkel wrote:

If it is real life range of 200km, like Ioniq with also 28kWH usable, that's fine

Well but time has moved on. Old ioniq is getting obsolete.

I'd say the sweet spot for range in Ireland is 300km, real life. That's what's the minimum range suitable to accelerate uptake is. 200km is too little and 400km is great but is getting too expensive. The 300km given the price is about right.

The following cars will hit the ~300km range:
VW ID3 48kW
Opel Corsa e 50kW
Renault Zoe 55kW
Peagot e-2018 55kw
Hyundai Ioniq 38kW (maybe?)

Of these VW, Renault and Opel will be <€30k after grants and this is the price range where the market battle will be taking place. Next year will be great

listermint

Video out today.


https://youtu.be/6csoYiUzltc



Pricing is very aggressive. Cheaper than the petrol model.

slave1

The motor space looks massive, how the filled out everything under the bonnet is beyond me and they still make it look crammed?
Also, like every Mini there is little to no boot space.
Get a well looked after Leaf30 and save thousands, full proper 5 seater, much bigger usable boot and just modest drop in range (I'm currently getting 190kms in a 162)

listermint

slave1 wrote: »

The motor space looks massive, how the filled out everything under the bonnet is beyond me and they still make it look crammed?
Also, like every Mini there is little to no boot space.
Get a well looked after Leaf30 and save thousands, full proper 5 seater, much bigger usable boot and just modest drop in range (I'm currently getting 190kms in a 162)

Yes but tbf. Its an extremely nice place to be in. Typically build quality. It looks alot better outside than the leaf in aware that beauty beholder and all that.

And some people will not need anymore space. At that price point it certainly has a market.

slave1

All fair points but I'd rather a used L30 and €15k in my pocket

Old diesel

slave1 wrote: »

The motor space looks massive, how the filled out everything under the bonnet is beyond me and they still make it look crammed?
Also, like every Mini there is little to no boot space.
Get a well looked after Leaf30 and save thousands, full proper 5 seater, much bigger usable boot and just modest drop in range (I'm currently getting 190kms in a 162)

They aren't meant to be a normal rational purchase .

Minis stopped been a sensible rational purchase sometime in the 80s.

You buy this MINI for the same reasons you buy any other MINI - the look, the image - cool factor etc appeals to you.

In saying that MINI deserve credit for minimising the price jump to EVs a lot better then other directly comparable ICE to EV cars.

Golf entry level ICE to EV is around 12 k .

Kona entry level ICE to EV is around 17 k.

MINI entry level ICE to EV is around 6 k.

MINI is always a premium offering anyway so price is never going to be a bargain

(Based on EV price AFTER grants)

Mike9832

slave1 wrote: »

All fair points but I'd rather a used L30 and €15k in my pocket

I wouldn't

Leaf drives like a boat

If this mini is anything like the Cooper S it will be sensational to drive

184bhp, 1320kg, 280nm instant torque

This mini will be great fun

tom1ie

Mike9832 wrote: »

Makes total sense

I really don't know how EV's are so expensive

Take away the battery and everything else is cheaper than ICE

Electric motors, inverters, controllers etc are alot cheaper than modern diesel engines and the bits they need

Would love to see a cost breakdown of a modern EV

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058010167
Here ya go.

Lumen

I had a first gen BMW Mini Cooper S. The throttle response or fuelling was the worst of any car I've ever driven, it would randomly refuse to pull out of junctions. So electric would be a big improvement.

But it's a bit disingenuous to say that this is cheaper than the petrol equivalent. The petrol equivalent is a Mini One. Judged in EV terms, this is a slow car. It's slower than a Kona!

One day they'll create a proper ground up Mini EV with RWD and cleverly packaged battery. In the mean time I'm sure this will sell well regardless.

listermint

Lumen wrote: »

I had a first gen BMW Mini Cooper S. The throttle response or fuelling was the worst of any car I've ever driven, it would randomly refuse to pull out of junctions. So electric would be a big improvement.

But it's a bit disingenuous to say that this is cheaper than the petrol equivalent. The petrol equivalent is a Mini One. Judged in EV terms, this is a slow car. It's slower than a Kona!

One day they'll create a proper ground up Mini EV with RWD and cleverly packaged battery. In the mean time I'm sure this will sell well regardless.

So its cheaper than the petrol equivalent then..

liamog

They've specced the Mini EV at the same level as the Cooper S.
Saying the Mini EV is the same as the Mini One is like saying the Leaf is the same as the Micra.

gally74

when are opening ordering in ireland, for a lot of people a mini si the 2nd car, over 20K orders in the uk is pretty impressive,

Lumen

listermint wrote: »

So its cheaper than the petrol equivalent then..

UK pricing is £24,400 for the electric, right? (at 6:50 in that video, "that is less than the current Mini Cooper S").

...but from the UK website:

https://www.mini.co.uk/en_GB/home/range/mini-3-door-hatch/select-your-mini.html

ONE 1.5-l 3-cylinder petrol engine (102 hp) From £16,195
COOPER 1.5-l 3-cylinder petrol engine (136 hp)
From £17,635
COOPER S 2.0-l 4-cylinder petrol engine (192 hp) From £20,925
JOHN COOPER WORKS 2.0-l 4-cylinder petrol engine (231 hp) From £20,950

What am I missing?

liamog

That's confusing alright, I can only imagine they are doing the usual thing of comparing prices for cars with similar options instead of the barebones models.

R.O.R

Old diesel wrote: »

Guillaume Seguin at Irish EV owners association is reporting....

27,765 euros including Grant entry level

30,405 euros Mid spec

35,695 euros for top spec.

He is giving those as on the road prices.

Not bad given that the Mini is meant to be a premium offering.

Pricing for the MINI EV was released a couple of weeks ago, along with Spec details.

Pricing I got, which includes the VRT Rebate, but not the SEAI Grant is:

Level 1: €31,890
Level 2: €34,530
Level 3: €39,820


Spec sheet attached. No additional options available, but colour, wheel and Mirror Cap/Roof choices at the one price.

Looks good value and I can see it working for a lot of people, but for our business, it's just a shame it's a 3 door only.

zilog_jones

Will Union Flag tail lights be standard?

unkel

R.O.R wrote: »

Pricing I got, which includes the VRT Rebate, but not the SEAI Grant is:

Level 1: €31,890

So starting off at €26,890, I wasn't too far off in my OP

Any idea of availability?

ewj1978

Isn't it basically a mini with the underpinnings of an i3? it'll sell like hotcakes.
26k for an i3. My wife and all her friends are going to be all over this car.

unkel

ewj1978 wrote: »

Isn't it basically a mini with the underpinnings of an i3? it'll sell like hotcakes.
26k for an i3. My wife and all her friends are going to be all over this car.

Yep pretty much. I too expect it to sell like hotcakes. Cheapest ICE MINI is over €21k, so just a €5k premium for going EV. Meaning a zero emissions car that's far more fun will also have a lower TCO than an ICE one.

AidenL

ewj1978 wrote: »

Isn't it basically a mini with the underpinnings of an i3? it'll sell like hotcakes.
26k for an i3. My wife and all her friends are going to be all over this car.

My wife has had 6 MINIs so far, she’s in an A4 now, but she might be tempted back.

R.O.R

unkel wrote: »

Any idea of availability?

Orders placed now will be March 2020 delivery - nothing available until then.

No idea if they'll be bringing a few in for stock, or if it will all be factory order.

pdpmur

ewj1978 wrote: »

Isn't it basically a mini with the underpinnings of an i3? it'll sell like hotcakes.
26k for an i3. My wife and all her friends are going to be all over this car.

It's based on a mini chassis rather than an i3 skateboard/passenger cell, so has all of the usual disadvantages of such a compromise (but of course with the corresponding development cost savings).

BigAl81

Got an online add for a Dublin garage today. The add says launching March 2020 from 28k Euro.

A nice new addition to EV options in Ireland!

unkel

That's pretty much spot on the price that was reported in the Irish Times back in July 2019

Reasonable enough for a premium hot hatch. I'd have it over a similarly priced Renault Zoe any day, although I realise it has considerably less range. This should keep its value well compared to most other EVs

adunis

Old diesel wrote: »

There will be a WTO tarriff of 10 percent in a no deal Brexit.

I would estimate that to be 2790 on entry level based on.....

UK price BEFORE grant there of 27900 sterling.

2790 sterling is 10 percent of the 27900.

Converted to euros - that's a price of 34,136 before Irish grant.

Thus 29 k with 5 grand SEAI grant.

Will VRT be zero?????

Edit - the WTO tarriff could end up been calculated on the 27900 converted to euros.

Would add around 4/500 euros.

So around 34500 or thereabouts pre grant.

I'm actually liking this too hence trying to run the figures

Ehhhh you conveniently forgot the VRT .........

Old diesel

adunis wrote: »

Ehhhh you conveniently forgot the VRT .........

The MINI EV is built in UK.

I was talking about the WTO tarriff in a hard no deal Brexit.

There is a rebate for the VRT hence I also said "will VRT be zero.

VRT will be a net figure of zero if less then 5 k because of rebate.

Edit - my post originally was in response to Unkle predicting a 26 k price for the MINI here with exchange rate and grant.

This was when UK price was known but Irish one wasn't .

That's why I mentioned the WTO tarriff because Unkles prediction didn't account for it.

I figured the UK price didn't need a WTO tarriff on it whereas in a no deal Brexit any UK built car would need a WTO tarriff added to its cost.

Ionised

Has anyone ordered one of these yet?

I wandered into a Mini dealer last week to talk about a petrol Cooper S (I had been looking at BEV but nothing appealed to me in the current lineup). Once specced up the price was pretty mindbending (circa 47k). I mentioned I had looked at the Cooper SE and was surprised it was available to order and could be delivered before my Cupra needs to be gone. Once we did the maths a same spec Cooper SE gets delivered for 37k. Unlike the petrol version it just comes in three trim levels with no choice of options. I went with the top spec as I do like my toys and the seats are pretty class. FYI, ordered it in Moonwalk Grey, black roof, with more traditional black multi-spoke wheels rather than the hideous 'three pin plug' wheels. Also had the yellow mirrors and yellow grill bar removed.

Long story short, went in for a petrol Cooper S, came out having ordered a Cooper SE. Speculative delivery date July 1st but could be earlier.

It must be said I had a 'moment' driving home when I came to the realisation that I am currently driving my last ever petrol car having spent the last 35 years enjoying them. Looking forward to the new adventure and having to change up my habits a bit.

Also got some information on the BMW group home charger which seems pretty advanced compared to some I looked at as alternatives so have an order in for that too.

Thoughts and opinions welcome.

KCross

Ionised wrote: »

Also got some information on the BMW group home charger which seems pretty advanced compared to some I looked at as alternatives so have an order in for that too.

What extras does it have?
And how much is it?