Are you still using turf?

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Last time I checked (admittedly it was a couple of years ago, but is probably still accurate) the bulk of our taxes come from outside Dublin. This is somewhat different to economic activity, but can be explained by the fact that so many MNCs in Dublin pay abnormally low taxes.

No the bulk of taxes come from Dublin and other cities. Even the LPT which was supposed to be ringfenced for LAs has been giving rual Ireland a digout:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/urban-taxpayers-subsidising-rural-homeowners-could-cause-property-tax-backlash-262606.html

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If you're living in a one-off house three miles outside Borrisokane or Ballymote, and your tank is leaking, you're probably not swimming in the effluent, or drinking it. In fact, if anything, it's probably supplying the soil with nutrients. Waste not, want not ! Still, those figures regarding faulty tanks need to be addressed. We are all responsible for the area we inhabit.

The same goes for deliberately pumping raw sewage into major waterways, which as far as I know is confined to urban communities.

So there is no leaking septic tanks near rivers, lakes or reservoirs?

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

No the bulk of taxes come from Dublin and other cities. Even the LPT which was supposed to be ringfenced for LAs has been giving rual Ireland a digout:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/urban-taxpayers-subsidising-rural-homeowners-could-cause-property-tax-backlash-262606.html

That link only refers to LPT, which is a tiny contributor to the pot. Unless things have changed drastically, I think you'll find most taxes are contributed from outside Dublin.

I can go through the Revenue data later but I'm on my phone at this moment.

Feel free to knock yourself out with Revenue returns in the meantime if you're interested /very bored!

gozunda

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That link only refers to LPT, which is a tiny contributor to the pot. Unless things have changed drastically, I think you'll find most taxes are contributed from outside Dublin.

I can go through the Revenue data later but I'm on my phone at this moment.

Feel free to knock yourself out with Revenue returns in the meantime if you're interested /very bored!

I would agree. The total population of Ireland is c. 4.784 million. The population of Dublin city and county is c. 1.345 million. So unless every single person - right down to the infants are working and paying taxes in Dublin - then the mathematics would suggest there is a greater body of people paying taxes outside Dublin

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That link only refers to LPT, which is a tiny contributor to the pot. Unless things have changed drastically, I think you'll find most taxes are contributed from outside Dublin.

I can go through the Revenue data later but I'm on my phone at this moment.

Feel free to knock yourself out with Revenue returns in the meantime if you're interested /very bored!

Dublin contributed 56% of total tax intake in 2018. The other cities were of course the next biggest contributors.

I know that link only reference LPT, as I said LPT was supposed to be used by LAs were it was paid to but yet again, it was used to subsidise rural Ireland.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Dublin contributed 56% of total tax intake in 2018. The other cities were of course the next biggest contributors.

I know that link only reference LPT, as I said LPT was supposed to be used by LAs were it was paid to but yet again, it was used to subsidise rural Ireland.

I haven't checked this (does it include PRSI, for example, and does it take account of commuters, or place of work?) but even if its 56%, it kinda diminishes the claim that there's some great transfer of wealth. There's 6 percentage points between it being 50/50

Ush1

gozunda wrote: »

I would agree. The total population of Ireland is c. 4.784 million. The population of Dublin city and county is c. 1.345 million. So unless every single person - right down to the infants are working and paying taxes in Dublin - then the mathematics would suggest there is a greater body of people paying taxes outside Dublin

I never said most people are employed in Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/revealed-the-county-that-generates-the-most-revenue-in-the-state-35031768.html

Some 42.7pc of all employment in the state is in Dublin. It accounts for €85bn in GDP, or 49pc of the national total.

Cork obviously is the next major contributor and then Limerick and Galway to lesser extents. Urban areas generate the money obviously.

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I haven't checked this (does it include PRSI, for example, and does it take account of commuters, or place of work?) but even if its 56%, it kinda diminishes the claim that there's some great transfer of wealth. There's 6 percentage points between it being 50/50

Check away there boss. Dublin is one urban area. Do you think 56% of all taxes is spent there?

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Check away there boss. Dublin is one urban area. Do you think 56% of all taxes is spent there?

Good question. I'm not sure that 56% is the figure when you include PRSI (a pretty huge tax pot), or commuters, but I reckon it's not far off. I'd have thought that does reflect the expenditure budget when you consider the cost of capital infrastructure in Dublin City and the metropolitan area.

Thelonious Monk

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Good question. I'm not sure that 56% is the figure when you include PRSI (a pretty huge tax pot), or commuters, but I reckon it's not far off. I'd have thought that does reflect the expenditure budget when you consider the cost of capital infrastructure in Dublin City and the metropolitan area.

I would have thought expenditure is cheaper per person per capita if they are city dwellers?

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

I never said most people are employed in Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/revealed-the-county-that-generates-the-most-revenue-in-the-state-35031768.html



Cork obviously is the next major contributor and then Limerick and Galway to lesser extents. Urban areas generate the money obviously.

But in Galway for example 50% of the workforce in the city commute from outside the city to work so if this isn’t taken into account then it’s massively flawed.

Anyway there is no doubt about it that Dublin get all the investment in this county and rural area need to start to get more of a cut asap, the one big benefit for rural Ireland recently is the national BB scheme and a shower clowns are trying to derail it. If the NBP was something benefiting Dublin city it would be long signed off and started.

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Good question. I'm not sure that 56% is the figure when you include PRSI (a pretty huge tax pot), or commuters, but I reckon it's not far off. I'd have thought that does reflect the expenditure budget when you consider the cost of capital infrastructure in Dublin City and the metropolitan area.

Interesting thought, have a read of this article:

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/dublin-generates-56-of-irish-tax-but-cant-keep-a-cent-of-it/

cgcsb

Graces7 wrote: »

Greater volume of consumption outweighs all these.

Honestly what are you blithering on about, greater volume? the volume per capita of environmental impact is much lower in urban situations.

cgcsb

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah that's all well and good for Dublin but in the other cities people still have to use their cars to get from A to B because the public transport is totally inadequate.

So it's not just those terrible rural people using cars.

When there is a luas in every city then you might have a valid point to make.

Even using a car to commute in a city, the commute distances are much shorter than for those living in rural areas. Also regardless of the standard of public transport, there's still more people using it in rural areas and more importantly there's more people walking and cycling due to the short commute distance.

cgcsb

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do people actually think we'd have a cleaner country if everyone lived in one off houses and there were no cities? How on earth could that be greener than cities with shared services taking up less space?

I'm guessing people who think this are early school leavers.

Thelonious Monk

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm guessing people who think this are early school leavers.

They seem to just live in their own world of alternative facts

cgcsb

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Im in a similar situation, but thankfully have a fireplace in the house here in Dublin and (luxury) one in the front bedroom. I usually burn smokeless briquettes but have smuggled up the occasional bag of turf -- can't tell you the joy of lying in bed reading a book with a turf fire on the go.

Someone I know down home converted a bedroom into a bathroom when renovating the house, and kept the fireplace. Imagine having a bath in front of a turf fire? That's the dream.

You realise this is illegal? I'd report you on the spot if I seen you at it. I don't want cancer from you enjoying a book.

gozunda

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Good question. I'm not sure that 56% is the figure when you include PRSI (a pretty huge tax pot), or commuters, but I reckon it's not far off. I'd have thought that does reflect the expenditure budget when you consider the cost of capital infrastructure in Dublin City and the metropolitan area.

The thing is the figure of 56% as far as I can see is not just personal taxation - it also comes from industry, services and transport - which because our government have kept loads of services centralised - means that much of that tax is paid by individuals living outside Dublin

So saying that Dublin generates 56% of all tax is both disingenous and inaccurate imo

Tax is vat, corporation tax, Capital gains etc etc not just PAYE/USC

Ush1

Saoirse Tasty Coat wrote: »

But in Galway for example 50% of the workforce in the city commute from outside the city to work so if this isn’t taken into account then it’s massively flawed.

Anyway there is no doubt about it that Dublin get all the investment in this county and rural area need to start to get more of a cut asap, the one big benefit for rural Ireland recently is the national BB scheme and a shower clowns are trying to derail it. If the NBP was something benefiting Dublin city it would be long signed off and started.

Yes, because it would be literally billions cheaper.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Interesting thought, have a read of this article:

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/dublin-generates-56-of-irish-tax-but-cant-keep-a-cent-of-it/

That really IS interesting. Thanks for that.

Of course, it should be remembered that those on higher incomes pay higher taxes, (and also have higher costs). This establishes its own equilibrium, where taxes in Dublin are higher in volume terms, because salaries are higher. The average Dubliner, apparently, earns 4k more than the average rural-dweller. Whereas people who live in 'the sticks' feel as though they are also paying high taxes as a proportion of their incomes. They are.

In conclusion, you were correct (and I was wrong) in your assertion that Dublin pays a disproportionately higher tax contribution.

But this is partly because Dublin provides greater economic activity. Myself and many others in this thread have come to Dublin from rural Ireland for employment.

Send us home! Give us jobs in the midlands and on the western seaboard, and let us burn turf there to our heart's content! For many of us, we don't really want to be in Dublin at all, but this is where the work is.

cgcsb wrote: »

You realise this is illegal? I'd report you on the spot if I seen you at it. I don't want cancer from you enjoying a book.

Yes I know it's very illegal. I am a criminal. I feel rather dangerous, but also warmed from the glare of my turf fire. I wholeheartedly recommend it.

Thelonious Monk

Companies don't want to set up in one off housing land and sought after foreifn employees don't want to live there. Dublin for all its flaws is the only thing we have resembling a proper city.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Companies don't want to set up in one off housing land and sought after foreifn employees don't want to live there. Dublin for all its flaws is the only thing we have resembling a proper city.

I don't really understand this, especially when it comes to IT.

Why does Facebook need to be located in Dublin, or Bank of America or Citi, or Google?

They sell their wares in the ether. They don't need to be close to the airports, ports or rail infrastructure.

I don't understand why Dublin is such an important location, as opposed to Waterford, Cork or Galway where employees would probably benefit from lower living costs (in effect, a pay rise) and probably healthier, happier lifestyles. Always flummoxed by that.

Cienciano

Dakota Dan wrote: »

They couldn’t charge a carbon tax on it so banned it instead.

Burning turf is illegal now? :eek:

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't really understand this, especially when it comes to IT.

Why does Facebook need to be located in Dublin, or Bank of America or Citi, or Google?

They sell their wares in the ether. They don't need to be close to the airports, ports or rail infrastructure.

I don't understand why Dublin is such an important location, as opposed to Waterford, Cork or Galway where employees would probably benefit from lower living costs (in effect, a pay rise) and probably healthier, happier lifestyles. Always flummoxed by that.

Because they need access to educated staff, housing, airports etc.... Typical features of a city.

Thelonious Monk

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't really understand this, especially when it comes to IT.

Why does Facebook need to be located in Dublin, or Bank of America or Citi, or Google?

They sell their wares in the ether. They don't need to be close to the airports, ports or rail infrastructure.

I don't understand why Dublin is such an important location, as opposed to Waterford, Cork or Galway where employees would probably benefit from lower living costs (in effect, a pay rise) and probably healthier, happier lifestyles. Always flummoxed by that.

Cork and Galway have some multinationals. Galway is a small town surrounded by ribbon development and totally dependent on cars and the traffic is terrible. Who would want to set up in that though?

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Because they need access to educated staff, housing, airports etc.... Typical features of a city.

But as Thelonious Monk has just said, MNCs are already operating in cities like Galway, and in Cork.

If the company I work for decided to relocate to Limerick or Galway, I'd be delighted.

Decentralization of the public service failed for purely political reasons, but I can't understand why the private sector cannot grasp that many of its workforce would be healthier and wealthier living in a smaller city.

Thelonious Monk

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But as Thelonious Monk has just said, MNCs are already operating in cities like Galway, and in Cork.

If the company I work for decided to relocate to Limerick or Galway, I'd be delighted.

Decentralization of the public service failed for purely political reasons, but I can't understand why the private sector cannot grasp that many of its workforce would be healthier and wealthier living in a smaller city.

I still think most employees wouldn't want to move. Anyway these are billion dollar companies and they set up in dublin for reasons I'm sure teams of highly paid experts have come up with.

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But as Thelonious Monk has just said, MNCs are already operating in cities like Galway, and in Cork.

If the company I work for decided to relocate to Limerick or Galway, I'd be delighted.

Decentralization of the public service failed for purely political reasons, but I can't understand why the private sector cannot grasp that many of its workforce would be healthier and wealthier living in a smaller city.

Of course smaller cities will have a decent amount of employers. You could work fro a different company in Limerick or Galway?

But Dublin obviously has more and so will have the majority of employers and new companies setting up there. Chicken and the egg.

There's plenty of health and wealthy people in Dublin. My parents are culchies who moved to London, then Dublin and never looked back. Love Dublin and really embraced their life here.

the_pen_turner

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

With Dublin bay a mess and 50% of septic tanks leaking I think we can agree we are all living in our own ****e in ireland

Tanks leaking is only a small part of the problem
A tank is a system and a finely balanced bacteria based purifying system.
Far too many people are turning into germafobes and pumping loads of domestos and bleach down the toilet. This is steralising the tank and stopping the bacteria cleaning the waste. It then goes out into the pecolation areas and soak away and clogs them or let's the swege into the land untreated

I saw a fairly new system clogged up and a total distast due to this. He got some guy out to test it and that's what he said was wrong.

Blazer

Steyr 556 wrote: »

Always loved the smell of a turf fire.

They need to make that a fragrance, along with freshly cut grass and petrol.

Even better Connemara whiskey.
Has that peat smell of it..bloody lovely too.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Of course smaller cities will have a decent amount of employers. You could work fro a different company in Limerick or Galway?

But Dublin obviously has more and so will have the majority of employers and new companies setting up there. Chicken and the egg.

There's plenty of health and wealthy people in Dublin. My parents are culchies who moved to London, then Dublin and never looked back. Love Dublin and really embraced their life here.

Dublin will always be the most popular site for MNCs relocating here.

What I'm surious about is the relative lack of interest in cities like Cork and Galway (of course, there is some, but it's really, really limited)

It's possible, as you say, to maintain a healthy lifestyle in Dublin. But in theory, if you relocated thousands of young workers to more rural locations (large towns like Athlone, Cork and Galway, which have plenty of metropolitan facilities), closer to land and sea amenities, you'd assume they'd take more of an interest in the great outdoors. Not sure how realistic this is, but I'd like to see more companies try it.