Are you still using turf?

Graces7

gozunda wrote: »

Cities cant cope with housing people living there at present. How in the name of god could existing urban areas cope with even more people? In Ireland public transport is already at breaking point and infrastructure such as sewage disposal as discussed above is way beyond capacity.

The point is that in rural areas people may for most of these services themselves. We also need a viable rural population in order that people can continue to work and live in the countryside. schools need critical numbers to be viable. No idea where this idea that everyone needs to live in urban ghettos comes from tbh.

YAY! Attaboy!

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Oversubscribed countryside?

How well do you know the countryside??

To quote the above post:

Very well, you don't think it's over subscribed? Ribbon development has totally destroyed the Irish countryside to the point where you can barely call parts truly rural.

Ush1

gozunda wrote: »

Cities cant cope with housing people living there at present. How in the name of god could existing urban areas cope with even more people? In Ireland public transport is already at breaking point and infrastructure such as sewage disposal as discussed above is way beyond capacity.

The point is that in rural areas people may for most of these services themselves. We also need a viable rural population in order that people can continue to work and live in the countryside. schools need critical numbers to be viable. No idea where this idea that everyone needs to live in urban ghettos comes from tbh.

Cities would "cope" better if they were able to retain more of the money they generate.

We don't need rural populations apart from very few professions. Most people living rurally in mcmansions and the like aren't farmers, and work in towns or cities anyway.

Self sufficient you say? So I assume getting an ambulance or Garda to incidents is as easy as in a city right?

The idea for having people live in cities is because it's more sustainable and avoids eroding the countryside.

Ush1

Graces7 wrote: »

What are you confused about? Have you got your head around per capita yet?

Snow Garden

I love eggs and I love turf. And I love the countryside. And I don't care if anyone doesn't like that about me, they don't have to stick around.

gozunda

Ush1 wrote: »

Cities would "cope" better if they were able to retain more of the money they generate.We don't need rural populations apart from very few professions. Most people living rurally in mcmansions and the like aren't farmers, and work in towns or cities anyway.Self sufficient you say? So I assume getting an ambulance or Garda to incidents is as easy as in a city right?
The idea for having people live in cities is because it's more sustainable and avoids eroding the countryside.

A huge part of a cities income comes from surrounding regions and commuters. The fact that many services are centralised means that a lot of the money earned in cities does nor arise from the cities themselves. They are sinks for wealth created elsewhere.

Throughout history cities have cencounterd the exact same issues and problems of overcrowding and pollution - these are not new. The only way for cities to retain this wealth would for them to become city states in their own rights and that is little more than feudalism tbh.

Who say we dont 'need rural populations'???
Not only fo we need farmers, there are people who work in allied services and trades supplying feed, machinery, supplies, schools for children, shops for supplies etc etc who are also essential to the successful economies of these regions.

Unless you are laughably suggesting depopulating rural areas and making farmers completely isolated in society, having to travel 100s of miles for basic supplies and sending children off to boarding schools for all of their young lives. Seriously?

I've yet to see one sane suggesting in this regard tbh. I didnt mention self sufficient btw. We are all dependant on each other. And I can tell you one thing 'McMansions' may exist- but the normal modest 3 or 4 bedroom bungalow is still the more common than any other housing type.

Cities are not sustainable by any means whatsover. They are totally dependant on outside trade and supplies to survive. Turn off the lights and most cities would turn to savagery very quickly. As it is cities expand into the countryside and gobel up huge tracts of land. Road infastructure and services use even more. It is the spread of cities which needs to be looked at critically and reassessed for their impact on the use of resources and a fairer distribution of wealth.

John_Rambo

gozunda wrote: »

Cities cant cope with housing people living there at present. How in the name of god could existing urban areas cope with even more people? In Ireland public transport is already at breaking point and infrastructure such as sewage disposal as discussed above is way beyond capacity.

You're right. The cities need to retain more money for investment in the cities. Investment in housing, public transport, sewage etc...

gozunda wrote: »

The point is that in rural areas people may for most of these services themselves.

They don't. Most services are subsidised in rural areas all over the world. Ireland is no different.

gozunda wrote: »

We also need a viable rural population in order that people can continue to work and live in the countryside. schools need critical numbers to be viable. No idea where this idea that everyone needs to live in urban ghettos comes from tbh.

People living in one off housing are destroying rural Ireland. They're abandoning the villages and towns to live an unhealthy car dependent, carbon dependent life shopping in outlets because of handy parking.

Then they're amazed when the local butcher (that they didn't shop in) closes down, shocked and enraged when the local post office (that they didn't use) closes!! Local indigenous businesses are ignored and jobs start to get scarce so people have to find work in cities.

gozunda

John_Rambo wrote: »

You're right. The cities need to retain more money for investment in the cities. Investment in housing, public transport, sewage etc...

Lol I thought youd show up tbh sooner or later..

Nope I'd suggest depoulate cities so they become less disastrous wealth sinks.

They don't. Most services are subsidised in rural areas all over the world. Ireland is no different.

Same services are fully paid for by local government in cities. Households in rural areas pay for services to be installed or supply their own. And that's the models cities should be following not having the rest of us smucks paying for yours.

People living in one off housing are destroying rural Ireland. They're abandoning the villages and towns to live an unhealthy car dependent, carbon dependent life shopping in outlets because of handy parking.

People have always lived in houses in rural areas. What are you suggesting? That we should knock them down and go live in an urban ghetto? Hmmm I think you know what most would tell you do with that suggestion

Then they're amazed when the local butcher (that they didn't shop in) closes down, shocked and enraged when the local post office (that they didn't use) closes!! Local indigenous businesses are ignored and jobs start to get scarce so people have to find work in cities.

Plenty of local services remain in the countryside and supported by locals. Plenty of good local butchers. But yeah central government think they can save a bob despite essentrial services being supported and wanted. Funny that - more money gets pulled back into the wealth sinks of cities.

Businesses are necessary whether in the city or town or rural areas. I see plenty of towns and even cities with high streets deserted and shops boarded up because of the giant shopping malls springing up on out of town greenfield sites. All car dependant.

I dont expect you to agree with any of this tbh. You have a complete myopia to anything but city living. Thats fine. Just dont tell everyone else you are somehow right.

Galwayguy35

John_Rambo wrote: »

People living in one off housing are destroying rural Ireland. They're abandoning the villages and towns to live an unhealthy car dependent, carbon dependent life shopping in outlets because of handy parking.

It's nearly easier to win the lotto these days and build a house on the family farm so this idea that townies like yourself have about one off housing cropping up all over the place is misplaced.

A much bigger problem was greedy developers building estates in unsuitable areas back in the boom and now these are an eyesore that nobody seems to know what to do with.

I live in a village myself, the local shop is doing a steady business and the PO is always used so this is another thing you seem out of touch with.

It's not the locals who are closing rural post offfices but officals at HQ.

John_Rambo

gozunda wrote: »

Lol I thought youd show up tbh sooner or later..




Nope I'd suggest depoulate cities so they become less disastrous wealth sinks.

Dublin aside, Irish cities need more people, Dublin needs a counter balance city to share the jobs. Limerick seems to be the one. The smaller cities need more investment, more people and more business.

gozunda wrote: »

Same services are fully paid for by local government in cities. Households in rural areas pay for services to be installed or supply their own. And that's the models cities should be following not having the rest of us smucks paying for yours.

No, you're wrong I'm afraid. Believe me, I'd love the cities to retain a bigger portion of the spoils, but I'm a realist and rural Ireland would be dead without city money.

gozunda wrote: »

People have always lived in houses in rural areas. What are you suggesting? That we should knock them down and go live in an urban ghetto? Hmmm I think you know what most would tell you do with that suggestion

They did, when they had a connection with the land. Most don't now, they just want their acre in the countryside, they have no connection with the land and are living a carbon dependent unhealthy lifestyle that's bad for the countryside and the environment.

gozunda wrote: »

Plenty of local services remain in the countryside and supported by locals.

Plenty aren't! That's why they're closing down.

gozunda wrote: »

Plenty of good local butchers. But yeah central government think they can save a bob despite essentrial services being supported and wanted. Funny that - more money gets pulled back into the wealth sinks of cities.

"De goverment" isn't closing down butchers and local businesses. They're not getting local support.

gozunda wrote: »

Businesses are necessary whether in the city or town or rural areas. I see plenty of towns and even cities with high streets deserted and shops boarded up because of the giant shopping malls springing up on out of town greenfield sites. All car dependant.

Indeed. Mainly rural towns. They're suffering the most.

gozunda wrote: »

I dont expect you to agree with any of this tbh. You have a complete myopia to anything but city living. Thats fine. Just dont tell everyone else you are somehow right.

I don't live in a city.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's nearly easier to win the lotto these days and build a house on the family farm so this idea that townies like yourself have about one off housing cropping up all over the place is misplaced..

And you know why? Read by posts! ^^ Planners are finally coming to grips with the problems and are reacting by curtailing the amount of new one offs.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

A much bigger problem was greedy developers building estates in unsuitable areas back in the boom and now these are an eyesore that nobody seems to know what to do with.

A problem, agreed, but not as big a problem as they death of rural villages and towns in fairness.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I live in a village myself, the local shop is doing a steady business and the PO is always used so this is another thing you seem out of touch with.

Good man.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It's not the locals who are closing rural post offfices but officals at HQ.

They get closed down when they become unviable from locals not using them!

Snow Garden

John_Rambo wrote: »

People living in one off housing are destroying rural Ireland.

Absolute bollix statement. It just smacks of utter jealousy.

Thelonious Monk

Snow Garden wrote: »

Absolute bollix statement. It just smacks of utter jealousy.

Jealousy lol. Trust me, living in a one off in the middle of nowhere would be a nightmare for sophisticated city folk like myself and i assume JR also.

John_Rambo

Snow Garden wrote: »

Absolute bollix statement.

It's the truth I'm afraid.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/outdoors/donal-hickey/problem-of-one-off-houses-463876.html

Snow Garden wrote: »

It just smacks of utter jealousy.

If I was jealous I'd just sell up and buy an eight bedroom house with four bathrooms and two garages on two acres in the countryside with no mortgage!

gozunda

John_Rambo wrote: »

Dublin aside, Irish cities need more people, Dublin needs a counter balance city to share the jobs. Limerick seems to be the one. The smaller cities need more investment, more people and more business.No, you're wrong I'm afraid. Believe me, I'd love the cities to retain a bigger portion of the spoils, but I'm a realist and rural Ireland would be dead without city money. They did, when they had a connection with the land. Most don't now, they just want their acre in the countryside, they have no connection with the land and are living a carbon dependent unhealthy lifestyle that's bad for the countryside and the environment.
Plenty aren't! That's why they're closing down.
"De goverment" isn't closing down butchers and local businesses. They're not getting local support. Indeed. Mainly rural towns. They're suffering the most. I don't live in a city. And you know why? Read by posts! ^^ Planners are finally coming to grips with the problems and are reacting by curtailing the amount of new one offs. A problem, agreed, but not as big a problem as they death of rural villages and towns in fairness. Good man.
They get closed down when they become unviable from locals not using them!

Lol. Again you really dont read what was written. I didnt say government was shuting down butchers etc. What they are shutting down is essential services such as post offices (which are used and wanted) to drag money back into the heat sinks that are cities. Cities should be administrative centres and not much else. Not locations for 100 % government subvention of all services or for those who end up dependant on welfare and provided public housing and everything handed over. Not saying that's everyone or doesn't happen elsewhere - yet city demographics are dominated by vast areas of blighted communities stuck in a trap of social and economic depravation. And that is bad for the country, people and the environment.

As stated by others - things are being shut down by the mandarins at their desks despite essential services in rural areas being used and wanted.

John_Rambo

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. Again you really dont read what was written. I didnt say government was shuting down butchers etc. What they are shutting down is essential services such as post offices to drag money back into the heat sinks that are cities.

They're shutting down unviable services that people aren't using.

gozunda wrote: »

Cities should be administrative centres and not much else.

Nonsense. Cities are the cultural epicenters of countries. Communities and centres evolved for business, arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement.

gozunda wrote: »

Not locations for 100 % government subvention of all services or for those who end up dependant on welfare and provided public housing and everything handed over. Not saying that's everyone or doesn't happen elsewhere - yet city demographics are dominated by vast areas of blighted communities stuck in a trap of social and economic depravation. And that is bad for the country, people and the environment.

Happens everywhere, lots of unemployment in rural areas. I explained why, read my posts carefully.

gozunda wrote: »

As stated by others - things are being shut down by the mandarins at their desks despite essential services in rural areas being used and wanted.

Again.. Shut down by lack of local support and usage and an addiction to cars and convenience.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/urban-taxpayers-subsidising-rural-homeowners-could-cause-property-tax-backlash-262606.html

gozunda

John_Rambo wrote: »

They're shutting down unviable services that people aren't using...

As you say all Nonsense. Them's your opinions. Nothing more. Town folk telling others how they think things are - when they know nowt. :pac:

Trust me services such as post offices and Gardai stations are very much used. Dont believe those looking to recoup money to spend on even more quangos and pet projects and the craziness of local property tax - yet another daft government initiative.

Graces7

[QUOTE=John_Rambo;110684112



Nonsense. Cities are the cultural epicenters of countries. Communities and centres evolved for business, arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement.


i :eek:

Graces7

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Jealousy lol. Trust me, living in a one off in the middle of nowhere would be a nightmare for sophisticated city folk like myself and i assume JR also.

sheer bliss away from.... so why attack? we love it.

Graces7

If ever I was in a town or city.. air stinks of exhaust fumes... and the noise.. ... no one greeting you or smiling.... you come back feeling mucky... everyone rushing around, traffic trying to mow you down. Car park attendants like vultures..

rush, rush, rush,,,,

Out here; peace and pure air. Folk greet and smile. Services are fine; access to medical care, air ambulance at need which is far faster than by road..An Post, buses when you need them. Ferries too..Shops. as we have the same chains as cities.. Internet by small local excellent servers.

Cities are OK to visit maybe once a year but to live there.. No way.

John_Rambo

gozunda wrote: »

As you say all Nonsense. Them's your opinions. Nothing more. Town folk telling others how they think things are - when they know nowt. :pac:

Trust me services such as post offices and Gardai stations are very much used. Dont believe those looking to recoup money to spend on even more quangos and pet projects and the craziness of local property tax - yet another daft government initiative.

Lol... I'm amazed you're complaining about property tax considering there is large redistribution from Dublin to other counties!!

A significant part of the LPT receipts in Dublin are redistributed to rural counties.In 2017, 80 per cent of the redistributed funds went to Donegal, Mayo and Tipperary in 2017.

Of the €80 million in LPT collected in the Dublin City Council area in 2017, the addition to the city’s finances was only €4 million as LPT receipts replaced grants from central government, and €16 million went into the redistribution fund. The receipts of LPT revenue received by rural counties enabled some of them such as Longford to reduce the rate of LPT applied in their areas.

If you live rural, it's likely your area has received Dublin property tax to improve your county.

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

Very well, you don't think it's over subscribed? Ribbon development has totally destroyed the Irish countryside to the point where you can barely call parts truly rural.

Hmm, there's a big difference between ribbon development and one-off housing.

Even small towns should be required to have a certain amount of concentration. My nearest home-town has purpose-built apartments, and they're reasonably popular new form of living.

Such construction should be part of any development plan.

My problem, here, is this opposition to one-off housing close to a place where you have been reared, or where you work.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if my siblings' homes spoil the views of the occasional Dubliner who gets lost down a by-road in trying to get a better view of the lake. As a society, we should place great importance on families living close to one another, and perhaps being able to care for one another in older age. That's a social importance of one-off housing that almost never gets discussed: it's about family and community.

I am not in favour of outsiders coming down and building holiday-homes in the bowels of the countryside, of course. That's a whole other topic, and has been tolerated for far too long.

Graces7

Interesting read...

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0713/1061917-bord-na-mona/

Graces7

John_Rambo wrote: »

Lol... I'm amazed you're complaining about property tax considering there is large redistribution from Dublin to other counties!!

A significant part of the LPT receipts in Dublin are redistributed to rural counties.In 2017, 80 per cent of the redistributed funds went to Donegal, Mayo and Tipperary in 2017.

Of the €80 million in LPT collected in the Dublin City Council area in 2017, the addition to the city’s finances was only €4 million as LPT receipts replaced grants from central government, and €16 million went into the redistribution fund. The receipts of LPT revenue received by rural counties enabled some of them such as Longford to reduce the rate of LPT applied in their areas.

If you live rural, it's likely your area has received Dublin property tax to improve your county.

so? as it should be. dubliners swarm to rural areas,

Oasis1974

Graces7 wrote: »

If ever I was in a town or city.. air stinks of exhaust fumes... and the noise.. ... no one greeting you or smiling.... you come back feeling mucky... everyone rushing around, traffic trying to mow you down. Car park attendants like vultures..

rush, rush, rush,,,,

Out here; peace and pure air. Folk greet and smile. Services are fine; access to medical care, air ambulance at need which is far faster than by road..An Post, buses when you need them. Ferries too..Shops. as we have the same chains as cities.. Internet by small local excellent servers.

Cities are OK to visit maybe once a year but to live there.. No way.

Most cities are like that but you have it all where you live so no point living in one. So you said you live in some one of those Craggy Islands off the west coast? Amazing they have so many amenities I thought they were bleak wind swept hell holes but each to there own.

Snow Garden

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's the truth I'm afraid.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/outdoors/donal-hickey/problem-of-one-off-houses-463876.html

Classic! Do you even understand your own link??

Your bollix statement was "People living in one off housing are destroying rural Ireland."

Yet the main point of your link is that one off houses don't leave enough land for wind turbines Do you want us all to move to grotty Dublin so that we can make the rest of the island into a giant windfarm? There is plenty of space for windfarms. I can even see plenty on the hills near my house.

People living in one off housing destroying rural Ireland because they take up vital room for windfarms...I've heard it all now!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

My problem, here, is this opposition to one-off housing close to a place where you have been reared, or where you work.

Frankly, I couldn't care less if my siblings' homes spoil the views of the occasional Dubliner who gets lost down a by-road in trying to get a better view of the lake. As a society, we should place great importance on families living close to one another, and perhaps being able to care for one another in older age. That's a social importance of one-off housing that almost never gets discussed: it's about family and community..

Absolutely excellent post, no point trying to explain it to townies though. The country is a place to be lived in not admired by dubs on their one weekend a year venturing outside their hell hole while spending the rest of the year giving out about “culchies”

John_Rambo

Graces7 wrote: »

so? as it should be. dubliners swarm to rural areas,

Tourism is vital to the West of Ireland, particularly the islands. You of all people should be aware of this.

Snow Garden wrote: »

People living in one off housing destroying rural Ireland because they take up vital room for windfarms...I've heard it all now!

Excellent point. Very hard to get permission for wind and solar farms when the countryside is like a large housing estate of one off houses. I've seen other threads on this forum where people are giving out about farming in the countryside!! Trying to stop farmers carrying out vital work late in to the summer nights.

Thelonious Monk

Saoirse Tasty Coat wrote: »

Absolutely excellent post, no point trying to explain it to townies though. The country is a place to be lived in not admired by dubs on their one weekend a year venturing outside their hell hole while spending the rest of the year giving out about “culchies”

So if all families in rural Ireland keep building one offs on the land surely after a while it will get out of hand?
The whole country would end up looking like the below

Mad_maxx

Graces7 wrote: »

here, a solid fuel stove, that heats the water and the radiators. cooks my food.. and so little work attached with turf as it is light and cleaner than coal.

Turf involves a lot of work, I still like it though

Graces7

John_Rambo wrote: »

Tourism is vital to the West of Ireland, particularly the islands. You of all people should be aware of this.

me? why? and what has that to do with my riposte to your post?