Are you still using turf?

Cienciano

This is typical AF, a post about the smell of turf fires has turned into a rant about Dublin. Lads.

Ubbquittious

Cienciano wrote: »

This is typical AF, a post about the smell of turf fires has turned into a rant about Dublin. Lads.

I'm sure if they burnt more turf in Dublin there would be less ranting about them

Thelonious Monk

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dublin will always be the most popular site for MNCs relocating here.

What I'm surious about is the relative lack of interest in cities like Cork and Galway (of course, there is some, but it's really, really limited)

It's possible, as you say, to maintain a healthy lifestyle in Dublin. But in theory, if you relocated thousands of young workers to more rural locations (large towns like Athlone, Cork and Galway, which have plenty of metropolitan facilities), closer to land and sea amenities, you'd assume they'd take more of an interest in the great outdoors. Not sure how realistic this is, but I'd like to see more companies try it.

We have the sea in dublin you know, a whole bay, only a 7 minute cycle from my house! 1000s of young workers don't want to live in these places the way they are now though, it's a bit chicken and egg.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We have the sea in dublin you know, a whole bay, only a 7 minute cycle from my house!

Not far from my own door either. It is full of actual sh1t, mind you.

Ush1

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dublin will always be the most popular site for MNCs relocating here.

What I'm surious about is the relative lack of interest in cities like Cork and Galway (of course, there is some, but it's really, really limited)

It's possible, as you say, to maintain a healthy lifestyle in Dublin. But in theory, if you relocated thousands of young workers to more rural locations (large towns like Athlone, Cork and Galway, which have plenty of metropolitan facilities), closer to land and sea amenities, you'd assume they'd take more of an interest in the great outdoors. Not sure how realistic this is, but I'd like to see more companies try it.

How young are you? Young, international professionals and senior execs are hard to attract to Dublin never mind the likes of Athlone.

Cienciano

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I'm sure if they burnt more turf in Dublin there would be less ranting about them

"It's Dublins fault turf is banned, living in their cities and taking facebook and google jobs away from us". :pac:

Cienciano

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I don't really understand this, especially when it comes to IT.

Why does Facebook need to be located in Dublin, or Bank of America or Citi, or Google?

They sell their wares in the ether. They don't need to be close to the airports, ports or rail infrastructure.

I don't understand why Dublin is such an important location, as opposed to Waterford, Cork or Galway where employees would probably benefit from lower living costs (in effect, a pay rise) and probably healthier, happier lifestyles. Always flummoxed by that.

What about somewere like Athenry?

https://www.thesun.ie/news/2557242/how-apples-athenry-plan-got-pulped-what-did-apple-want-to-build-how-many-people-objected-and-why-and-what-happened-next/

Oh yeah!

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

How young are you? Young, international professionals and senior execs are hard to attract to Dublin never mind the likes of Athlone.

I'm almost 32, professional but not international.

In my line of work, we've lost plenty of colleagues to cities like Galway and Cork, who are now living in places like Spiddal and Kinsale. Some will have taken a pay cut, but when you factor in the cost of living in those towns, it's a net pay rise.

I know what it's like to live in those towns, so I'm just suggesting that they're far better-off now, and maybe that's something our larger corporations ought to bear in mind.

Cienciano wrote: »

"It's Dublins fault turf is banned, living in their cities and taking facebook and google jobs away from us". :pac:

Can we all just take a moment to remember that we needn't try to be London or Copenhagen?

Rural living, with your own land, is actually part of our social culture -- at least in rural Ireland. We shouldn't apologise for that. We shouldn't be trying to emulate Berlin or Manhattan. We are still allowed to have our own values and our own way of organising ourselves.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Rural living, with your own land, is actually part of our social culture -- at least in rural Ireland. We shouldn't apologise for that. We shouldn't be trying to emulate Berlin or Manhattan. We are still allowed to have our own values and our own way of organising ourselves.

How would rural Ireland be trying to emulate a large metropolis overseas? One can safely assume that "rural" is the antithesis of a concrete jungle.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

How would rural Ireland be trying to emulate a large metropolis overseas? One can safely assume that "rural" is the antithesis of a concrete jungle.

Not sure if I follow.

My point is that we ought not try to replicate our countryside on Germany's, based on the models employed in places like Germany, or France or Denmark.

We have our own values, our own ways of organising ourselves. We shouldn't want to be Germany. If you want Germany, go to Germany.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Dublin will always be the most popular site for MNCs relocating here.

What I'm surious about is the relative lack of interest in cities like Cork and Galway (of course, there is some, but it's really, really limited)

It's possible, as you say, to maintain a healthy lifestyle in Dublin. But in theory, if you relocated thousands of young workers to more rural locations (large towns like Athlone, Cork and Galway, which have plenty of metropolitan facilities), closer to land and sea amenities, you'd assume they'd take more of an interest in the great outdoors. Not sure how realistic this is, but I'd like to see more companies try it.

I mean Dublin is literally on the coast. It’s also got land amenities.

d8491prj5boyvg

gozunda wrote: »

Are ye sure about that? Humans produce the same amount of faecal ****e whether stuck up a mountain in Kerry or living in a high rise in Phuket.

I've news for ye - the world is one big 'septic tank'. That said all new builds requiring ' new style treatment systems' (not connected to municipal sewage systems*) must have secondary filters and now incorporate technology to improve the breakdown of waste matter and the quality of effluent. Existing older style septic tanks are inspected for compliance - ours was done a couple of years ago. So yeah we have a lot of crap been flung around here with regard to how urban areas ****e doesn't stink for some strange reason Whatever these areas are - they are not "eco friendly" ...

*the ones discharging untreated sewage directly into water bodies like Cork Harbour etc

It's easier to manage in one place. As is transport and any other service.

d8491prj5boyvg

blackbox wrote: »

My parents always called it turf mould, though I never saw it written down to see the spelling.
Even when it came in bags labelled Peat Moss and then Moss Peat they still called it turf mould.

Turf mole where I'm from, which sounds like turf moul' which could be interpreted as turf mould.

d8491prj5boyvg

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Indeed. The last time I had a day off and was about to go for a swim, there had been a shower of rain and so the Very Competent waste-treatment agency had caused raw sewage to spill into Dublin bay.

The same Very Competent city council insisted that the yellowish-brown scum in Sandycove had nothing to do with faecal matter, it was all just a great coincidence. Yet raw sewage is routinely being pumped into the Irish sea.

People on this side of the country need to get their own house in order before preaching about boglands which they have approximately zero interest in anyway.

We all need to do our bit.

gozunda

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

It's easier to manage in one place. As is transport and any other service.

What is?

d8491prj5boyvg

gozunda wrote: »

What is?

Anything. Including human waste.

Also, the current overflow into Dublin bay is due to the weather. When building the system they could have gone to extraordinary expense to cover a once in an x year occurrence or pump the overflow if it came to it. (I'm not an expert but the extraordinary occurrences don't come around often so x is large, like 20+ years.) They went with the latter, sensibly at the time. Now once in x years is much more frequent than it used to be

So the system works, it's the weather that's broken.

Graces7

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

It's easier to manage in one place. As is transport and any other service.

that does not affect the amount which is what matters!

gozunda

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

Anything. Including human waste. Also, the current overflow into Dublin bay is due to the weather. When building the system they could have gone to extraordinary expense to cover a once in an x year occurrence or pump the overflow if it came to it. (I'm not an expert but the extraordinary occurrences don't come around often so x is large, like 20+ years.) They went with the latter, sensibly at the time. Now once in x years is much more frequent than it used to be So the system works, it's the weather that's broken.

In cities ****e is pipped for miles to a treatment facility. The problem is not necessarily the weather either - much of the sewage infrastructure is old and outdated and can't cope with increased loading from new developments. Ordinary weather events such as rainfall then push the system to overload.

Then there is also the issue of raw sewage being pumped into water bodies without treatment This is happeing all over the country and in involves piped municipal sewage. Huge issue with this in Cork harbour and elsewhere.

Why is partially-treated sewage leaking into Dublin Bay?

Ringsend wastewater treatment plant serves the greater Dublin region and has a notorious reputation for not complying with environmental standards and incidents resulting in discharges into Dublin Bay.

The plant treats approximately 40 per cent of Ireland’s public wastewater but has been operating at over capacity and not in compliance with national and EU environmental regulations for many years.

Built in 2005, the sewage treatment plant is the largest in Ireland. Although it was designed to cater for a population equivalent of 1.64 million people, it currently treats wastewater for the equivalent of 1.9 million.

As a result, the treatment system is constantly overloaded.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/why-is-partially-treated-sewage-leaking-into-dublin-bay-1.3918122

babi-hrse

Everyone out my way burns it.
There's a bog not far from me so they're all mad for the turf.
I'd burn it occasionally but got oil heating put in. When I bought the house there was nothing but a stove in the kitchen that they shovelled with turf to heat the entire house and water.
The shower was turf powered. Madness.
None of the neibhours have oil heating as they consider it a waste when there's turf around.
In winter the air goes white with the lazily wafting smoke of turf fires starting.
I wouldn't go as far as to outlaw it but I do wish people would start phasing it out as the smoke is unreal.

d8491prj5boyvg

Graces7 wrote: »

that does not affect the amount which is what matters!

No. It's how it's managed that matters.

Graces7

babi-hrse wrote: »

Everyone out my way burns it.
There's a bog not far from me so they're all mad for the turf.
I'd burn it occasionally but got oil heating put in. When I bought the house there was nothing but a stove in the kitchen that they shovelled with turf to heat the entire house and water.
The shower was turf powered. Madness.
None of the neibhours have oil heating as they consider it a waste when there's turf around.
In winter the air goes white with the lazily wafting smoke of turf fires starting.
I wouldn't go as far as to outlaw it but I do wish people would start phasing it out as the smoke is unreal.

When I lived on a North sea island that was made of peat as they call turf there, an old neighbour followed the trend and got oil heating put in. He went from a mobile old man to a chairbound one as his only real activity had been bringing peat in and keeping the fire alight. Deeply regretted it

My cottage had oil heating etc but I stopped using it in favour of the peat fire. A lorry load straight off the field cost £100 and lasted the whole year and then some .

as here so much wind the smoke dispersed..

d8491prj5boyvg

gozunda wrote: »

In cities ****e is pipped for miles to a treatment facility. The problem is not necessarily the weather either - much of the sewage infrastructure is old and outdated and can't cope with increased loading from new developments. Ordinary weather events such as rainfall then push the system to overload.

Then there is also the issue of raw sewage being pumped into water bodies without treatment This is happeing all over the countries and in involves piped municipal sewage. Huge issue with this in Cork harbour and elsewhere.





https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/why-is-partially-treated-sewage-leaking-into-dublin-bay-1.3918122

No doubt that it should be upgraded to cope with population change. Extraordinary weather events push it, we'd see much more untreated effluent in the bay if it was ordinary weather events. If it is, upgrade the system, fully agree.

It still is better than everyone having their own septic tank

gozunda

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

No doubt that it should be upgraded to cope with population change. Extraordinary weather events push it, we'd see much more untreated effluent in the bay if it was ordinary weather events. If it is, upgrade the system, fully agree.

It still is better than everyone having their own septic tank

The issue with outdated systems has been ongoing for years. Even normal amounts of rainfall now push the current waste systems into overload. I visited one in Dublin years ago and the staff were experience similar problems then.

The septic tank issue is separate. Firstly the old style septic tank systems are being phased out in favour of new managed waste systems with secondary treatment of waste. These provide for improved managing of effluent etc


The other thing is that large areas of the country including towns etc are not serviced by sewage disposal plants - hence the issue of raw sewage being discharged into surface water as a means of municipal sewage disposal.

A well managed septic tank / waste treatment system is a much better option than either a non functioning waste treatment plant or deliberate discharge of sewage.

That said plenty of older septic tank systems need upgrading as well.

d8491prj5boyvg

gozunda wrote: »

A well managed septic tank / waste treatment system is a much better option than either a non functioning waste treatment plant or deliberate discharge of sewage.

That's an unfair comparison. Something working well is always going to be better than something not working well.

The important point is that a well-managed septic tank is not as good as a well-managed municipal system. (or, if you prefer, a poorly-managed septic tank is not as good as a poorly-managed municipal system).

gozunda

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

That's an unfair comparison. Something working well is always going to be better than something not working well.

The important point is that a well-managed septic tank is not as good as a well-managed municipal system. (or, if you prefer, a poorly-managed septic tank is not as good as a poorly-managed municipal system).

It's not a comparison btw. Neither are desirable - but that said the statement is debatable tbh. The impact of millions of litres of raw untreated sewage being discharged at a point source, on the environment can be devastating. The impact of a poor septic tank while still bad for the immediate environment will be relatively small in comparison.

And the the present situation is that we have many malfunctioning municipal sewage disposal systems. Even if we do 'compare' them with malfunctioning old style septic tanks - the impacts is many times in excess due to volume of discharges involved.

In other areas- there are no secondary or tertiary sewage treatment plants at all. And that's the other point - much of the country is not serviced by municipal sewage treatment plants. That includes some urban areas and towns. Hence the daily discharge of raw sewage.

I'd love to see the government investing in properly working sewage systems for the whole county.

Thst said modern septic waste systems provide secoundary treatment and managed effluent. Plus planning and testing of the site is required to ensure that the system operates optimally.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

You realise this is illegal? I'd report you on the spot if I seen you at it. I don't want cancer from you enjoying a book.

What’s illegal? Burning turf of briquettes certainly aren’t so not sure what you are referring to. You really sound like a delightful character :rolleyes:.

Ush1

Graces7 wrote: »

that does not affect the amount which is what matters!

What are you suggesting exactly? Perhaps the old China one child policy?

Cities are the sustainable way for populations to grow. Or should we all have one off houses dotted around the already oversubscribed countryside?

Graces7

Ush1 wrote: »

What are you suggesting exactly? Perhaps the old China one child policy?

Cities are the sustainable way for populations to grow. Or should we all have one off houses dotted around the already oversubscribed countryside?

Ush1

Ush1 wrote: »

oversubscribed countryside?

Oversubscribed countryside?

How well do you know the countryside??

To quote the above post:

gozunda

Ush1 wrote: »

What are you suggesting exactly? Perhaps the old China one child policy?

Cities are the sustainable way for populations to grow. Or should we all have one off houses dotted around the already oversubscribed countryside?

Cities cant cope with housing people living there at present. How in the name of god could existing urban areas cope with even more people? In Ireland public transport is already at breaking point and infrastructure such as sewage disposal as discussed above is way beyond capacity.

The point is that in rural areas people may for most of these services themselves. We also need a viable rural population in order that people can continue to work and live in the countryside. schools need critical numbers to be viable. No idea where this idea that everyone needs to live in urban ghettos comes from tbh.