AMD Navi Discussion

K.O.Kiki

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The consoles can be sold at a loss, so I'm not as hopeful on pricing of the GPUs.

Yes but that loss is including a 512Gb NVMe drive, 16Gb GDDR6 & 8-core Zen 2.
If the rumours are correct, Navi 23 could have half the VRAM.
So I can see AMD having an entry-level GPU around the same price (or lower) as Series S.

2ndcoming

The consoles also get a pared down minimal version of the GPU dye that's incorporated into their board rather than a full consumer product on its own board with fans and rgb and a faceplate etc.

No marketing expense either.

Can't really compare the two.

BloodBath

Squidgy Black wrote: »

If they can split the 3070 and the 3080 with a card that costs $550-600 they'll claw back sales. But with reports that AIB cards won't be available until next year, and next gen console demand potentially slowing down any chance of them getting mainstream inventory this side of Christmas even if they were to release is going to leave them on the back foot big time.

I really can't understand why AMD haven't made any sort of solid leak, or even an announcement for an announcement date when it's getting so close to the actual release date of the Nvidia cards. Even if there's low stock for the 3080, with reviews/benchmarks and even a low amount of cards being out in the wild, it's going to be a real uphill battle to try convince people to go with them unless they've something spectacular in terms of performance per cost.

It doesn't look good. The usual story with AMD graphics division. What they had was probably exciting if they had got it to market sooner. By the time they release it won't be. You just know their own coolers are gonna be crap as well so you have to wait even longer for AIB cards.

I think they overextended with contracts, new Ryzen lineup + consoles and TSMC's 7nm foundries are just maxed out with no room for RDNA2 until the pre Christmas console release order is met.

EoinHef

This time we may actually get decent reference coolers based on the pic below. The rumor is they are concentrating on dual and tri fan designs. If they release with a good cooler it doesn't even matter if AIB's don't release this year.

Mr Crispy

EoinHef wrote: »

This time we may actually get decent reference coolers based on the pic below. The rumor is they are concentrating on dual and tri fan designs. If they release with a good cooler it doesn't even matter if AIB's don't release this year.

Yeah, back in march Scott Herkelman went so far as to say there'd be no blower cards at all in their next gen of gaming cards.

Speaking of stuff AMD employees say on social media...........

https://twitter.com/AzorFrank/status/1303492877989879810?s=20

circadian

I'm guessing they'll schedule their launch announcement, hardly just going to announce anything more without much notice.

Azza

Is the Sun coming out tomorrow a metaphor for how hot Big Navi will run at?

Mr Crispy

Well, it is named after a star, so.....

Cuddlesworth

Azza wrote: »

Is the Sun coming out tomorrow a metaphor for how hot Big Navi will run at?

Did they have to implement a new power connector for the power it will pull?

Mr Crispy

They've ditched the blower alright.


https://twitter.com/Radeon/status/1305612438675562505?s=20

K.O.Kiki

Very pretty, I like it.

Thecageyone

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Very pretty, I like it.

Let's be honest, they all look much of a muchness - couple fans, basic 1970's era radiator style casing ... best hidden away - don't think I've ever found a Gpu 'good looking.

Mr Crispy

After some of the terrible coolers they've had in the past, I just want this to be effective and (preferably) quiet.

Mr Crispy

Speaking of which;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uxLy1qWRAk

AlmightyCushion

Mr Crispy wrote: »

Speaking of which;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uxLy1qWRAk

These youtubers need to learn how to get to the point and keeping things concise. He keeps saying the same thing multiple different ways. It shouldn't take 5 minutes to say AMD's reference coolers are rubbish but this one looks better. There is decent information in there but he could easily cut out the crap and the video would be half the length.

wotzgoingon

I've a reference 5700 XT and find it good. I've a custom fan curve with 75% max and with my headphones on I can't hear it. If I was playing a demanding game and took the headphones off you can hear the fans as they would be at 75% but as I said headphones on while gaming no noise and completely silent when just browsing.

Mr Crispy

Interesting that he suspects AMD are using HBM (although he could be reading far too much into that model).

K.O.Kiki

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

These youtubers need to learn how to get to the point and keeping things concise. He keeps saying the same thing multiple different ways. It shouldn't take 5 minutes to say AMD's reference coolers are rubbish but this one looks better. There is decent information in there but he could easily cut out the crap and the video would be half the length.

That's just buildzoid, he generally does sleep-deprived rambles & what you're hearing is take 4.
Watch at 1.25x

Mr Crispy

Yeah, and to be fair he had the thing up pretty quick, so probably take 1 in this case.

I see JayzTwoCents giving AMD a hard time for marketing in such a kiddies' game (paraphrasing here). He really irritates me.

Thecageyone

I find most of the Tech reviewers really irritating, from the so laid back types they sound really disinterested to the obnoxious shouty types who tend to have a bunch of dopes running about taking orders from them [that Linus guy for one] - but, we have to get the info someplace and here and there between them all we do learn something [eventually] as they will always get the gear first. They are obviously going to milk the absoloute crap out of these new cards and convince us all that we 'need' to upgrade asap. Their channels wouldn't be doing much if there wasn't new tech to push/review/moan about

Cuddlesworth

Mr Crispy wrote: »

Interesting that he suspects AMD are using HBM (although he could be reading far too much into that model).

The rest of the industry has serious doubts about that. Its just too expensive to produce.

Thecageyone

Thecageyone wrote: »

I find most of the Tech reviewers really irritating, from the so laid back types they sound really disinterested to the obnoxious shouty types who tend to have a bunch of dopes running about taking orders from them [that Linus guy for one] - but, we have to get the info someplace and here and there between them all we do learn something [eventually] as they will always get the gear first. They are obviously going to milk the absoloute crap out of these new cards and convince us all that we 'need' to upgrade asap. Their channels wouldn't be doing much if there wasn't new tech to push/review/moan about

Yeah Linus can be really grating. If I have to I would listen to someone like JayzTwoCents; yeah he can rant about random things but comes across as a general grumbling tech head as opposed to screaming into the screen and having peons stagger around.

K.O.Kiki

Thecageyone wrote: »

They are obviously going to milk the absoloute crap out of these new cards and convince us all that we 'need' to upgrade asap. Their channels wouldn't be doing much if there wasn't new tech to push/review/moan about

GamersNexus' Steve recently admitted that he still runs an FX-8350 at home and affirmed his stance that you should buy for longevity where possible.

Wonda-Boy

Have to say I to find it rediculous advertising a GPU in fortnite....I mean come on ffs! Especially the very first insight into a GPU that is so important to AMD, maybe after a few weeks of launch for some PR but its madness.

Mr Crispy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Have to say I to find it rediculous advertising a GPU in fortnite....I mean come on ffs! Especially the very first insight into a GPU that is so important to AMD, maybe after a few weeks of launch for some PR but its madness.

It really isn't. People getting upset over this need to calm down.

z0oT

Thecageyone wrote: »

I find most of the Tech reviewers really irritating, from the so laid back types they sound really disinterested to the obnoxious shouty types who tend to have a bunch of dopes running about taking orders from them [that Linus guy for one] - but, we have to get the info someplace and here and there between them all we do learn something [eventually] as they will always get the gear first. They are obviously going to milk the absoloute crap out of these new cards and convince us all that we 'need' to upgrade asap. Their channels wouldn't be doing much if there wasn't new tech to push/review/moan about

What irks me about some of the Tech Youtubers/Websites is when they try and go into detail about the technical electronic principles behind things. It's often evident they know nothing about what they're talking about most of the time in that case.

As for Navi, this video is worth a watch. The prediction is that AMD will have a 3070 & 3080 competitor, and they'll probably do something like what the Radeon VII was to compete with the 3090. Time will of course tell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR70xbcwB6U

Mr Crispy

Mr Crispy wrote: »

It really isn't. People getting upset over this need to calm down.

It's a highly popular game, massive throughput, many people with high end rigs play, AND has a large base of people who have basic enough rigs.


Those low enders are prime targets for enticing towards a self-build mid/high end rig, with no affiliation to Nvidia.

K.O.Kiki

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Have to say I to find it rediculous advertising a GPU in fortnite....I mean come on ffs! Especially the very first insight into a GPU that is so important to AMD, maybe after a few weeks of launch for some PR but its madness.

There's no insight in the Fortnite thing.
It's just a big render.

First insight will be on 28. October, as they already announced earlier in the month.

Wonda-Boy

Mr Crispy wrote: »

It really isn't. People getting upset over this need to calm down.

Jaysus buddy, think of my feelings will ya....:P

Getting upset indeed....more of an observation more then anything else :rolleyes:

According to statistica, a survey done late 2020 found that the majority of people playing FORTNITE are 18-24 yr olds (62%)

22% are of the age 25-43.

12% are of the age 35-44.

2% are of the age 45-54.

To me, that is not the base that AMD would need to be targeting as the majority of PC high end users looking at the extreme high end GPU purchases would not be 18-24 yrs of age. More like 30+ present company included.

Wonda-Boy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Jaysus buddy, think of my feelings will ya....:P

Getting upset indeed....more of an observation more then anything else :rolleyes:

According to statistica, a survey done late 2020 found that the majority of people playing FORTNITE are 18-24 yr olds (62%)

22% are of the age 25-43.

12% are of the age 35-44.

2% are of the age 45-54.

To me, that is not the base that AMD would need to be targeting as the majority of PC high end users looking at the extreme high end GPU purchases would not be 18-24 yrs of age. More like 30+ present company included.

At 37 I was in an office as a Sys-Admin trying to justify a 1080 purchase (considering kids, mortgage, car, and wife wondering about said purchase)
Vs
Bunch of 24 year old (paid) interns splashing out on 2080s a few months later.


Also, think of those 16 year olds saying to 40ish parents "Dad/Mom, you like games too. Can we get a high end GPU together, for Xmas?"


Edit: Bastard interns actually asked me if I knew what a pokéball was.

Squidgy Black

There's a HUGE influx of younger people who are convincing their parents to buy them new PCs over in the states too with remote learning being pretty popular over there. And then you e college students too who will all be remote, so there's a lot of people investing in systems and saying why not go full whack.

It's a gimmick to be honest, not a huge deal but if it gets them publicity then why not. I'm sure Epic were more than happy to work with them for it. Sure Nvidia used fortnite as one of their examples in their launch of games that would have RTX support being rolled out.

Mr Crispy

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Jaysus buddy, think of my feelings will ya....:P

Getting upset indeed....more of an observation more then anything else :rolleyes:

According to statistica, a survey done late 2020 found that the majority of people playing FORTNITE are 18-24 yr olds (62%)

22% are of the age 25-43.

12% are of the age 35-44.

2% are of the age 45-54.

To me, that is not the base that AMD would need to be targeting as the majority of PC high end users looking at the extreme high end GPU purchases would not be 18-24 yrs of age. More like 30+ present company included.

I wasn't aiming that specifically at you, moreso the general outrage about it online (although you did sound upset ).

Anyway, ignoring those figures (which just show that there are still tens of millions of Fortnite players over the age of 24), you have to remember that this is only one element of AMD's marketing. If their whole plan is to publicise this launch through Fortnite, then yeah, I'll grab a pitchfork alongside the rest of the internet. But if it's just one measly element of getting this thing talked about, I really don't see the harm.

Maybe they should have just revealed it by pulling it out of an oven. *shrugs*

MidlanderMan

The screw hole patern on the back of Navi render in Fortnite suggests that whatever that card is, it doesn't have GDDR, there are screw holes where the GDDR chips would be.
If that's true, it means that *maybe* the highest end cards will use HBM2, which might make sense with the 80 CU's and 24GB rumours.

Samuel T. Cogley

Skip to about 11 minutes in.

Mr Crispy

Images from the video;

circadian

I like Jayztwocents liquid cooling, hvac cooling videos. Even the benchmark stuff is decent but when it comes to news/rumours etc he comes a across as a total fan boy and completely biased.

Mind you, most of the tech you tubers do so at least he has the other material that's decent.

BloodBath

MidlanderMan wrote: »

The screw hole patern on the back of Navi render in Fortnite suggests that whatever that card is, it doesn't have GDDR, there are screw holes where the GDDR chips would be.
If that's true, it means that *maybe* the highest end cards will use HBM2, which might make sense with the 80 CU's and 24GB rumours.

I don't think there's any truth to that. The memory can be laid out multiple ways.

I'm pretty sure I used to have a gpu that had that x shaped pressure plate on the back as well that wasn't HBM.

It's just too expensive for consumer cards and is only used for server/ai gpu's.

I think AMD learned that lesson already with radeon 7.

Homelander

AMD drivers are the reason I won't really entertain Big Navi.

Back in the day, cards like the R9 290, HD7970, whatever else, where hugely viable cards to Nvidia. Even the RX series were fine.

But their drivers have just been so horrible for the Vega/XT cards in comparison to Nvidia.

Ultrflat

circadian wrote: »

Even the benchmark stuff is decent but when it comes to news/rumours etc he comes a across as a total fan boy and completely biased.

I think his fan boys days are over, hes become very critical of companies and there practices, he gave MSI greef over a bios issue, hes called out NVIDIA multiple times in the past year over poor practices. He also has no issue in making intel look bad as well as AMD.

He used to give the impression he was a fan boy, I just think he was going with what ever card/cpu was working best apposed sticking to one side.

Squidgy Black

I'm going to assume that if the 6900XT runs close to the 3080 performance wise there's going to be zero chance of getting one this side of Christmas considering the demand for the 3080 so far.

Hyzepher

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'm going to assume that if the 6900XT runs close to the 3080 performance wise there's going to be zero chance of getting one this side of Christmas considering the demand for the 3080 so far.

There will always be more demand for Nvidia imo. But given how little both companies provide out of the gate I'm also assuming it will be hard to get one.

Azza

So from what I'm hearing around the web, AMD have at least a competitor to the 3080.
There 6700 will be there competitor to 3070 but will not be available this year.
Rasterization performance will be around the same or in spitting distance of Ampere.
Ray Tracing performance is abit of a unknown but the speculation is that its not not as good as Ampere but better than Turing.
Will have more VRAM than the 3070/3080 cards with 16GB VRAM.
Much better power consumption than Ampere.
Its reference cooler will no longer a blower design.
Will again undercut NVIDIA on price.

Simi

It won't matter if it has more vram, better power consumption and a lower price. Unless it solidly beats the equivalent Nvidia card and has zero driver issues from day one, people simply aren't going to pick an AMD card over an Nvidia one.

It's not good enough to get within 10% of or trade blows with the 3080. The AMD equivalent has to be unquestionably better in every way to stand even a chance of stealing some market share.

Samuel T. Cogley

Simi wrote: »

It won't matter if it has more vram, better power consumption and a lower price. Unless it solidly beats the equivalent Nvidia card and has zero driver issues from day one, people simply aren't going to pick an AMD card over an Nvidia one.

It's not good enough to get within 10% of or trade blows with the 3080. The AMD equivalent has to be unquestionably better in every way to stand even a chance of stealing some market share.

As much as I agree with the above it simply wont, sadly.

It'll be as good if not slightly better at 1440P
Worse at 4K
RT performance will cause a bigger hit than on nVidia Cards
No answer to DLSS
Cheaper made reference and AIB designs
Driver issues, especially on launch

This won't be Radeon's Zen moment unless they massively undercut on cost - which I don't think they can aford to do and would also be easily countered.

Azza

Simi wrote: »

It won't matter if it has more vram, better power consumption and a lower price. Unless it solidly beats the equivalent Nvidia card and has zero driver issues from day one, people simply aren't going to pick an AMD card over an Nvidia one.

It's not good enough to get within 10% of or trade blows with the 3080. The AMD equivalent has to be unquestionably better in every way to stand even a chance of stealing some market share.

Same sources I was looking at believe three cards are coming the 6700, 6800 and 6900.

If AMD want to win on rasterization they can do so but by upping power consumption well outside of the chips sweet spot. I suspect that will be the 6900 card.

Looking at hardware unboxed reviews of the 3080, they show that in terms of Ray Tracing performance the improvements are pretty marginal relative to Turning, so if AMD do get in between Turing and Ampere you are not going to notice a difference.

VRAM may prove a factor down the road.

As for DLSS, same sources say they are working on a counter solution, but absolutely no ETA on it.

Infini

Simi wrote: »

It won't matter if it has more vram, better power consumption and a lower price. Unless it solidly beats the equivalent Nvidia card and has zero driver issues from day one, people simply aren't going to pick an AMD card over an Nvidia one.

It's not good enough to get within 10% of or trade blows with the 3080. The AMD equivalent has to be unquestionably better in every way to stand even a chance of stealing some market share.

In all honesty though Ive an AMD rig as well and there's not a bother out of it for me. As it stands AMD isnt thag bad they are improving if anything its because of them that nvidia arent gouging this time around as much on prices.

Would wait and see what happens but AMD might be in better shape this time around.

Azza

I've had a Vega 56 and a 5700XT and driver wise I never had an issue with the Vega 56.
On the 5700XT I've got the black screen issue once and had an issue with micro stutter introduced by a GPU driver update in Sniper Elite 4. I ended up doing 4-5 driver rolls backs an updates before it fixed it, as each rollback/update would temp fix the issue before it came back. Weirdly it resolved itself when I went back to the driver that first introduced the issue. Not sure what happened, was annoying at the time but overall I wouldn't say AMD driver support has been bad, nor has it been perfect but I think there reputation for poor drivers is a little over exaggerated or a little out of date.

circadian

I'm definitely curious to see what RDNA2 can do but I'm waiting until the next generation before upgrading anyways. It seems AMD have taken the same approach as Zen by creating a more modular architecture and focusing on different characteristics each generation. I suspect rdna3 and 4 will have a very mature GPU offering that could well be able to tackle NVIDIA at the high end.

bobbyy gee

amd might win on price

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/75139/amd-big-navi-hits-spitting-distance-of-geforce-rtx-3080-performance/index.html

bobbyy gee

I hope and can keep up

https://www.redsharknews.com/nvidia-announces-a-10496-core-gpu-the-rtx3090