Insignia engine gone?

trinewbie

Hi Folks - Have an insignia with roughly 190Kms on the clock. Engine seized last week and diagnosis from local garage is crankshaft seized, and likely pistons snapped/ valves bent so new engine or full rebuild required. Given the age of the car, its potential value, and the cost of a reconditioned engine/ rebuild , its not really an option.

The thing that is bugging me is that there were no warning signs, no knocking noises, nothing, just packed up suddenly. The same garage replaced the oil pump only two months ago, I trust them, but cant help feeling there might be a correlation. .. feel I should get a second opinion...thoughts?

colm_mcm

Google insignia engine failure.

That a bummer as you tried to do the right thing getting the oil pump replaced instead of waiting for it to die. Hopefully the garage will help you with getting the car back on the road. It does sound like they could have made a mistake installing the new pump. If I remember it correctly the issue with them is that some plastic component/pipe/strainer breaks off from the pump and the engine is then starved from oil almost without a warning. Could it be that the same thing happened with the new setup too?

Midnight_EG

Certainly wouldn't be like an Insignia to pop an engine :eek:

Cordell

Why was the oil pump replaced?

It actually seems that the issue with the 2.0 is that an O-ring between the oil galley in the block and the pickup stainer hardens and results in gradually worsening oil starvation. Did the garage really replace the oil pump or only that seal? If the seal was replaced there is a possibility of the symptoms returning if the the seal continues to be bad.

If the car was already suffering from low oil pressure two months ago (=i.e. there were symptoms which prompted you to get the repair done) it could just be that the damage was already done and the engine finally failed now due to the issues earlier this year.

trinewbie

samih wrote: »

It actually seems that the issue with the 2.0 is that an O-ring between the oil galley in the block and the pickup stainer hardens and results in gradually worsening oil starvation. Did the garage really replace the oil pump or only that seal? If the seal was replaced there is a possibility of the symptoms returning if the the seal continues to be bad.

If the car was already suffering from low oil pressure two months ago (=i.e. there were symptoms which prompted you to get the repair done) it could just be that the damage was already done and the engine finally failed now due to the issues earlier this year.

Got the work done following a low oil pressure error, stopped car immediately and got it towed. Pump was replaced, along with bottom end gasket set (as per invoice) , was driving fine until last week, then went without warning. Not arguing with the engine being totaled now, but I guess I'm questioning the garage doing the pump and gasket and whether or not they should have known at the time that it was going to be in vain.

Cordell

They should have known the Insignia issues and advise you to go for a full check of the crankshaft bearings (expensive to the point of not being worth it) before just replacing the pump. Before you got the error the oil pressure was marginally over the pressure switch threshold, which is enough to keep it off but still cause oil starvation.

trinewbie

Cordell wrote: »

They should have known the Insignia issues and advise you to go for a full check of the crankshaft bearings (expensive to the point of not being worth it) before just replacing the pump. Before you got the error the oil pressure was marginally over the pressure switch threshold, which is enough to keep it off but still cause oil starvation.

Cheers - thought I should have been advised alright. No recourse now though unfortunately I think.

Bigmac1euro

Do you mind me asking what year was the insignia ?

trinewbie

trinewbie wrote: »

Got the work done following a low oil pressure error, stopped car immediately and got it towed. Pump was replaced, along with bottom end gasket set (as per invoice) , was driving fine until last week, then went without warning. Not arguing with the engine being totaled now, but I guess I'm questioning the garage doing the pump and gasket and whether or not they should have known at the time that it was going to be in vain.

YMMV, and sounds like unfortunately you did not win this time. Reading about the issue it appears that the prognosis for successful recovery is bad and once you see the low oil pressure message you have already had weeks/months of cold starts with reduced oil flow without a warning. The Insignia warning system seem to allow the engine to run with low oil pressure for quite some time without triggering the warning which would be a normal situation when starting the engine at extreme low temperatures.

At the start the O-ring leaks just enough to create a small void in the pickup tube but even then the engine does run with reduced oil pressure while the bubbles go through the oil pump and upstream the system. Eventully it takes long enough for the oil pressure to build up for the car to show a warning but at the stage there have already been excess air bubbles in the oil circuit.

The garage could have done more at the time. One option would have been to crack open the main journals when the sump was out. They would most likely have seen wear in the bearings. Anyway, it's too late now. You can talk to the garage to ask if they did inspected anything two months ago. The oil filter and the drained oil could have been checked for contamination by the bearing metal. With perfect 20/20 vision that really should have been done in case like this when the symptoms are low oil pressure and it's a known issue with the engine.

Hurrache

samih wrote: »

It does sound like they could have made a mistake installing the new pump. If I remember it correctly the issue with them is that some plastic component/pipe/strainer breaks off from the pump and the engine is then starved from oil almost without a warning. Could it be that the same thing happened with the new setup too?

I think it's a seal around the pick up that gets brittle so it's like sucking through a cracked straw and starves of oil.

grogi

trinewbie wrote: »

Got the work done following a low oil pressure error, stopped car immediately and got it towed. Pump was replaced, along with bottom end gasket set (as per invoice) , was driving fine until last week, then went without warning. Not arguing with the engine being totaled now, but I guess I'm questioning the garage doing the pump and gasket and whether or not they should have known at the time that it was going to be in vain.

In response to the o-ring fiasco, Opel just disabled the warning light with software update. It doesn't show until it is too late. If it showed an error, the engine was already toasted

Gorgeousgeorge

Same happened Sunday evening to a friends. Oil pressure warning light came on he stopped immediately and it was still to late it locked up solid. It's a 2011 with 180000 km.

trinewbie

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

Same happened Sunday evening to a friends. Oil pressure warning light came on he stopped immediately and it was still to late it locked up solid. It's a 2011 with 180000 km.

Bummer. Read elsewhere that the bottom end was reworked sometime after 2012 so shouldn’t be as prevalent an issue in later years - doesn’t help me ,or your friends :-( .

Left with a massive sour taste with opel / vauxhall after this ,owned the car since 2012 and have had nothing but hassle ,new turbo, power steering pump , oil pump , gear selector , turbo hoses , electrical issue ,the list goes on ! Can safely say I’ll never drive one again , and will avoid the garage used in future .

zilog_jones

I wouldn't discount Opel now they're owned by Peugeot since 2017, and not GM. So all new platforms, engines, etc. are totally unrelated to what came before. But they might want to make some interesting cars first...

Cordell

By today's standards the new Insignia is indeed bland and uninteresting, but the original one was quite interesting when it launched. The engine itself was not bad by any standard, except for this problem is quite reliable and preventive maintenance would fully prevent it - if only Opel would have chosen to recommend it rather than hide it with that software update. There are many other brands and models with more serious problems.

beauf

What's a more serious problem than one that destroys the engine to the point it's an economic write off?

Other than a safety issue that harms the occupants obviously.

Everyone I know who had one of these really liked the car. The repairs though broke their hearts and wallets. Does the Astra have the same engine? Don't hear as many issues with the Astra.

Cordell

beauf wrote: »

What's a more serious problem than one that destroys the engine to the point it's an economic write off?

The one that does the same but can't be solved by preventive maintenance. Or when the preventive maintenance can be an economic write off by itself.
This one happens usually well after 150k and can be solved and diagnosed well before it becomes serious. So for engine write-off causing issues this one is towards the low end of the scale

Cee-Jay-Cee

The only thing you can be absolutely 100% guaranteed of with an Insignia diesel is that the engine WILL **** itself at some stage.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The only thing you can be absolutely 100% guaranteed of with an Insignia diesel is that the engine WILL **** itself at some stage.

Knowing what I know now if I had one of these 2.0 diesels that still works I would be dropping the sump today to replace that O-ring. And then same again every 5 years.

Now that's preventive maintenance

grogi

samih wrote: »

Knowing what I know now if I had one of these 2.0 diesels that still works I would be dropping the sump today to replace that O-ring. And then same again every 5 years.

Now that's preventive maintenance

That's exactly what you should be doing. Same in any AR 159

Hellrazer

grogi wrote: »

In response to the o-ring fiasco, Opel just disabled the warning light with software update. It doesn't show until it is too late. If it showed an error, the engine was already toasted

No they didn't. The software update was for an unrelated issue.
The issue is caused by poor maintenance. Most of them I see in the door has had the wrong oil used,a ****ty cheap oil filter or missed services.

realdanbreen

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The only thing you can be absolutely 100% guaranteed of with an Insignia diesel is that the engine WILL **** itself at some stage.

Gulp! Would that also be the case with a Vauxhall Insignia? Just bought a 09 one.

realdanbreen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

The only thing you can be absolutely 100% guaranteed of with an Insignia diesel is that the engine WILL **** itself at some stage.

Gulp! Would that also be the case with a Vauxhall Insignia? Just bought a 09 one.

BTW 140k on the clock.

bazz26

realdanbreen wrote: »

Gulp! Would that also be the case with a Vauxhall Insignia? Just bought a 09 one.

They are the same car, just different badges.

grogi

Hellrazer wrote: »

No they didn't. The software update was for an unrelated issue.
The issue is caused by poor maintenance. Most of them I see in the door has had the wrong oil used,a ****ty cheap oil filter or missed services.

Yes they did. Heaps of clients complained about oil low pressure warning displayed shortly after starting the engine. GM simply calculated that the cost of replacing few engines that would fail during warranty was smaller that fixing the root of oil pressure problem. This wasn't a safety issue, so there wasn't to be a litigation fallback from it either. To silence the complaints, the warning was simply hidden.

GM was right: majority of the cars easily reached end of warranty period. Money saved, someone got bonus. The damage to already struggling brand is long lasting though.

CoBo55

realdanbreen wrote: »

Gulp! Would that also be the case with a Vauxhall Insignia? Just bought a 09 one.

Get a dependable garage to drop the sump and replace the pickup seal.

Hellrazer

grogi wrote: »

Yes they did. Heaps of clients complained about oil low pressure warning displayed shortly after starting the engine. GM simply calculated that the cost of replacing few engines that would fail during warranty was smaller that fixing the root of oil pressure problem. This wasn't a safety issue, so there wasn't to be a litigation fallback from it either. To silence the complaints, the warning was simply hidden.

Have you any actual proof of this other than hearsay on the internet. Because you are completely wrong.

Hurrache

samih wrote: »

Knowing what I know now if I had one of these 2.0 diesels that still works I would be dropping the sump today to replace that O-ring. And then same again every 5 years.

Now that's preventive maintenance

I done it when changing the timing belt, but lost confidence in it regardless, mainly because of this site!

grogi

Hellrazer wrote: »

Have you any actual proof of this other than hearsay on the internet. Because you are completely wrong.

You clearly know better, share the details with us.

corks finest

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

Same happened Sunday evening to a friends. Oil pressure warning light came on he stopped immediately and it was still to late it locked up solid. It's a 2011 with 180000 km.

FFS that's not good enough,any Opel recall for same?

CoBo55

corks finest wrote: »

FFS that's not good enough,any Opel recall for same?

There was, ECU reprogrammed to ignore the oil pressure switch.

OldmanMondeo

Welcome to the club... I had the rebuild done last year, biggest mistake I ever made. Engine gone again 12 montha later, car is now scrapped. Sometime the oil seal will cause a mixture of oil and air and cause a misreading on the oil pressure sensor, the engine could have been starved of oil for a while.

CoBo55

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Welcome to the club... I had the rebuild done last year, biggest mistake I ever made. Engine gone again 12 montha later, car is now scrapped. Sometime the oil seal will cause a mixture of oil and air and cause a misreading on the oil pressure sensor, the engine could have been starved of oil for a while.

As you found out it's pointless rebuilding them as the shells spin in the housing ruining the block and caps rendering the whole lot scrap.

corks finest

CoBo55 wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

FFS that's not good enough,any Opel recall for same?

There was, ECU reprogrammed to ignore the oil pressure switch.

Cheating bastards

CoBo55

corks finest wrote: »

Cheating bastards

As the song says, it's all about the money money money...

Hellrazer

grogi wrote: »

You clearly know better, share the details with us.

CoBo55 wrote: »

There was, ECU reprogrammed to ignore the oil pressure switch.

Ive been through all the bulletins on the dealer portal as far back as 2008 and there never was a software update to stop or lessen the time the oil pressure light came on.
So the whole "they released a software update so they wouldn't have to deal with warranty issues" is completely untrue.

I cant get any clearer than that.

The truth is that engine is a piece of junk. I wouldn't touch an Insignia with a 2.0 diesel in it.
The pick up pipe seal is the known fault. But even after rebuilding they are still prone to failure as the crankshaft is also a weakness in them.
Avoid like the plague.

FR85

Some Saabs are prone to the pick up seal going also, I think for some reason its primarily the TTiD. I have one of these and although I got the seal done it still pops up every now and then when starting from cold.

grogi

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ive been through all the bulletins on the dealer portal as far back as 2008 and there never was a software update to stop or lessen the time the oil pressure light came on.
So the whole "they released a software update so they wouldn't have to deal with warranty issues" is completely untrue.

I cant get any clearer than that.

The truth is that engine is a piece of junk. I wouldn't touch an Insignia with a 2.0 diesel in it.
The pick up pipe seal is the known fault. But even after rebuilding they are still prone to failure as the crankshaft is also a weakness in them.
Avoid like the plague.

Is it routine to upgrade ECU software during service? Would the customer get an update even if they didn't complain about anything?

GM would not admit in publicly available materials that it was the way they handled problem. It opens a liability can. Because it is not really a safety issue - such as exploding airbags - the probability of a probe into this was minimal.

OldmanMondeo

CoBo55 wrote: »

As you found out it's pointless rebuilding them as the shells spin in the housing ruining the block and caps rendering the whole lot scrap.

The block was replaced with a reconditioned one and the crankshaft was regrounded, so I was told....

Hurrache

CoBo55 wrote: »

There was, ECU reprogrammed to ignore the oil pressure switch.

A lot of people wouldn't have got services done in main dealers so surely there'd be a lot of cars in the wild which get the warning before hand.

grogi

Hurrache wrote: »

A lot of people wouldn't have got services done in main dealers so surely there'd be a lot of cars in the wild which get the warning before hand.

Most cars get serviced during warranty - that's around two years of services. Later cars came with the 'fix' out of factory.

TheBoyConor

samih wrote: »

It actually seems that the issue with the 2.0 is that an O-ring between the oil galley in the block and the pickup stainer hardens and results in gradually worsening oil starvation. Did the garage really replace the oil pump or only that seal? If the seal was replaced there is a possibility of the symptoms returning if the the seal continues to be bad.

If the car was already suffering from low oil pressure two months ago (=i.e. there were symptoms which prompted you to get the repair done) it could just be that the damage was already done and the engine finally failed now due to the issues earlier this year.

Indeed, you'd be wondering did the garage replace the oil pump at all even or did they just say, yep lobbed in a new oil pump in there boss, €800 if you don't mind.

CoBo55

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

The block was replaced with a reconditioned one and the crankshaft was regrounded, so I was told....

I'd doubt the block was line bored, I don't think oversized/undersized shells are available.

TheBoyConor

You wouldn't rebore or put undersize bearing shells in a car engine unless it is some high value or genuinely rare model. I'd have my doubts whether the engine manufacturer for cars like this would even have produced parts like oversize pistons and bearings because there's no market for it.
They used to do it years ago but no-one does it now.

When engines go in cars like this you just replace the engine. It is not worth the hassle and expense stripping them down and rebuilding them.
Them diesel insignias are only a cúnt of a car anyway. Cut your losses and scrap it.

Hellrazer

grogi wrote: »

Is it routine to upgrade ECU software during service? Would the customer get an update even if they didn't complain about anything?

GM would not admit in publicly available materials that it was the way they handled problem. It opens a liability can. Because it is not really a safety issue - such as exploding airbags - the probability of a probe into this was minimal.

Do you not understand?
There was no software update related to the oil pressure switch at all. There never was --its internet hearsay. You keep saying there was and its a big conspiracy from GM yet you cant show me one piece of proof that they released a software to actually cause damage to a car.

Yet even though I have access to GMs technical site I cant even find one piece of software that was related to the fuel pressure system of the Insignia that was released in the last 10 years yet alone one to make an oil pressure light "stay off longer" in order to not have to cover them under warranty.


I said it before and Ill say it again. The issue is down to poor maintenance. You have to remember a lot of these were reps cars that were lucky to be serviced at all never mind on time.

corks finest

grogi wrote: »

Hellrazer wrote: »

Ive been through all the bulletins on the dealer portal as far back as 2008 and there never was a software update to stop or lessen the time the oil pressure light came on.
So the whole "they released a software update so they wouldn't have to deal with warranty issues" is completely untrue.

I cant get any clearer than that.

The truth is that engine is a piece of junk. I wouldn't touch an Insignia with a 2.0 diesel in it.
The pick up pipe seal is the known fault. But even after rebuilding they are still prone to failure as the crankshaft is also a weakness in them.
Avoid like the plague.

Is it routine to upgrade ECU software during service? Would the customer get an update even if they didn't complain about anything?

GM would not admit in publicly available materials that it was the way they handled problem. It opens a liability can. Because it is not really a safety issue - such as exploding airbags - the probability of a probe into this was minimal.

It's routine if you're a regular to plug her in,for a stranger I say your have to request it( I did with honda silver springs Cork) I knew my car needed software updates as it was a common problem ref insights and basically all honda insights needed 4 updates

chicorytip

Hellrazer wrote:

The truth is that engine is a piece of junk. I wouldn't touch an Insignia with a 2.0 diesel in it. The pick up pipe seal is the known fault. But even after rebuilding they are still prone to failure as the crankshaft is also a weakness in them. Avoid like the plague.

There is no real evidence to back up those claims. A Google search of Insignia problems reveals no references to pick up pipe seals failing whatsoever, only more mundane issues like front brake discs warping.

FR85

Hellrazer wrote: »

Do you not understand?
There was no software update related to the oil pressure switch at all. There never was --its internet hearsay. You keep saying there was and its a big conspiracy from GM yet you cant show me one piece of proof that they released a software to actually cause damage to a car.

Yet even though I have access to GMs technical site I cant even find one piece of software that was related to the fuel pressure system of the Insignia that was released in the last 10 years yet alone one to make an oil pressure light "stay off longer" in order to not have to cover them under warranty.


I said it before and Ill say it again. The issue is down to poor maintenance. You have to remember a lot of these were reps cars that were lucky to be serviced at all never mind on time.

Google Insignia Pick Up Seal/Oil Pump Failure and then say its down to poor maintenance.

Hurrache

chicorytip wrote: »

There is no real evidence to back up those claims. A Google search of Insignia problems reveals no references to pick up pipe seals failing whatsoever, only more mundane issues like front brake discs warping.

I think it's common enough knowledge at this stage, even amongst non affiliated mechanics.