Random EV thoughts.....

Flinty997

See easy go have a night rate trial on some public chargers.

https://easygo.ie/30-off-on-easygo-night-rate/

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912947#Comment_122912947

I would also be worried medium to long term that cheap used EVs may encourage people to ditch the bus or train or bike or scooter to use a car with low fuel costs. Think of service jobs, cleaners etc who get the bus to work instead commuting long distances for nearly bus like costs. You also have those who want a brand new reg number say 151 even if it's the cheapest if the cheap car. Good for the used market but may end up with more traffic on the roads.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913270#Comment_122913270

They won't because EVs get stuck in traffic the same as everyone else.

Once the Public transport, or bike become a lot faster or easier people will eventually switch. You just have to make driving so much harder. Some people will still drive even where walking is quicker.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913270#Comment_122913270

I'd be similarly worried, particularly since our new overlords have adopted a kick the can down the road attitude towards public transport and cycling infrastructure

I used to commute into Dublin from the suburbs and the fastest route is to cycle. There's no continous cycle path and in many places I'm sharing a busy main road with grumpy car drivers

There's a plan to open a dedicated cycleway all the way to the city, it'll be interesting to see if that gets shelved

prosaic

I use the bus when necessary, twice or 3 times a week usually. They are so so unreliable timewise, you have to allow an extra 30 mins, which is a lot of time wasted.

If buses could be 98% relied upon to be there within 5 minute window (allowing for traffic troubles), I'd use them all the time. They seem to have no authority to make sure buses leave at appropriate times, often one will go chasing another one rather than waiting for the next departure slot, and this is in very quiet off peak times.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913664#Comment_122913664

It's a funding issue. Take the 41 bus as an example, it starts in Swords, goes through Swords, past the airport, then Santry, Whitehall, Druncondra and finally through the city to Abbey Street

Okay cool, it's covering a lot of the city, but that's a lot of stops, so anyone getting on in Swords is going to have to deal with a long bus journey and anyone looking for a bus in Drumcondra is going to find the bus jam packed

You've a few options, you could run more buses, or you could split the route so each bus isn't at full capacity and the Swords end gets a faster service

Unfortunately you've created a new problem which is that you've more buses heading into a city with a fixed amount of road space, so now you need to invest in bigger bus corridors and more efficient use of the roads you have

Or you can take the minimal spend option which is to make a few express buses from Swords at peak times, and not invest much in infrastructure leading to a poorly optimised system

That's not to say all the changes are bad, I think the bus gates on the quays are a great idea for example. But I do get the idea that a lot of the potentially great solutions are hamstrung by an unwillingness to invest more than the bare minimum

EDIT: Also running more buses requires more buses and drivers, both cost money. You can fund this with increased fares but then you aren't competitive with driving. Or the government can shoulder the cost and try to keep the fares low

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912870#Comment_122912870

The Luxury Tax is not based on the perceived premium of the car, its basically the price point. For example, you can have a particular car that does not fsll into the tax bracket, but if you spec certain items, then it brings you over it and thus, into the luxury tax bracket.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913537#Comment_122913537

Indeed, even though cars may be slower than bikes many will choose the car, as they don't get wet, cold, can bring children to childcare, and have much more certainty over trip times than waiting on a bus, and ghost busses are common and show up on bus real time information systems. Long term there will be more disincentives to 4 wheel travel, there is new gantries on the M50 to allow junction by junction barrier free tolling, but government has that on hold for now, but gantries have been installed. Even peak and off peak tolls are a thing already on some roads.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122913870#Comment_122913870

I get you and maybe I'm being pedantic here but it is called the "luxury' tax which suggests that it refers to higher end product - and that more affordable and reasonably specced cars are (or should be) costed comfortably below the 40k threshold.

Headshot

I think after 3 years of PHEV, i'm seriously looking at making the jump to BEV.

Does anyone have recommendations for a BEV under 40k ?

I'm seriously looking at the Ioniq 5 but wondering is there anything else I need to research?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122919377#Comment_122919377

Ioniq 5

Model 3

ID4 I think

BYD Atto

MGZS/4

Really

Depends what you like and what’s important. Range, efficiency etc

For example, would you buy a second hand car over brand new?

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122919377#Comment_122919377

What PHEV do you have and are you looking for similar? Pretty much every EV launched since 2020 has a used example sub 40k now so if you're happy with used them huge options.

Some really good new options too under and around your budget

Headshot

I have a RAV 4 PHEV on PCP and hope to continue with the same direction with a new BEV.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122919486#Comment_122919486

Model Y

Atto

ID4

BZ4X

MG ZS

Narrow down what you like and drive them all. Make a decision then.

yermanthere

Get a price off Toyota dealer to change. But be aware bz4x has 20% smaller battery than id4/ev6/ioniq5.

If long range is a regular requirement, maybe Toyota not the best option ( still not awful).

Under 40k new, you'll struggle to get the size of RAV4, probably look at used. But RAV4 phev is like 56k isn't it?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122914600#Comment_122914600

Its some easy politicking

Set a tax on new vehicles, call it luxury car tax and set the value fairly high in 2017 (£40k).

Because it's a luxury car tax only affecting wealthier people then it's an easy win

Do not alter the band to account for inflation over the next 7 years, so more cars come into the tax band

Also remove the exemption for EVs and you've magically increased tax revenues without increasing taxes

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912862#Comment_122912862

The 8years emanate from California and the US and was repeated pretty much worldwide so nothing to do with battery tech.

Also, LFP or not, cars can use way more power than their battery size, Model 3 on the Autobahn will be well over 60kW in power usage

CMOTDibbler

Just on the BZ4X (saw somebody call it the buzzy forks 🤣), is it still the case that you're limited to three DC charges in a 24 hour period?

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122925710#Comment_122925710

In all realism would anyone driving in Ireland manage to do enough driving to actually need to DC charge their car 3 times in one 24hr period? Two lads working flat out in a taxi back in the Tiger days would be hard pressed to need that much juice.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122925993#Comment_122925993

I fast charged 9-10 times a day a few times in my leaf 24 back in the day! But yeah, 3 times would be fairly rare now.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912862#Comment_122912862

I think it's important to give some real world context to battery cycles, when talking about X more cycles it becomes somewhat meaningless unless we put it in real world context.

Let's assume we have two batteries, LFP and NMC, which has 77kWh usable capacity, assume efficiency of 170Wh/km for each, and assume 25,000 kilometers per year average driven.

LFP battery:

Minimum energy throughput: 77 kWh × 3,000 cycles = 231,000 kWh

Maximum energy throughput: 77 kWh × 5,000 cycles = 385,000 kWh

NMC battery:

Minimum energy throughput: 77 kWh × 1,000 cycles = 77,000 kWh

Maximum energy throughput: 77 kWh × 2,000 cycles = 154,000 kWh

Using the cars efficiency figures, I can estimate how many kilometers can be driven over the battery lifespan.

Energy consumption per km: 170 Wh/km = 0.17 kWh/km

LFP battery:

Minimum distance: 231,000 kWh ÷ 0.17 kWh/km = 1,358,824 km

Maximum distance: 385,000 kWh ÷ 0.17 kWh/km = 2,264,706 km

NMC battery:

Minimum distance: 77,000 kWh ÷ 0.17 kWh/km = 452,941 km

Maximum distance: 154,000 kWh ÷ 0.17 kWh/km = 905,882 km

Using the annual mileage of 25,000 km/year, here's the estimated lifespan at face value:

LFP battery:

Minimum lifespan: 1,358,824 km ÷ 25,000 km/year = 54 years

Maximum lifespan: 2,264,706 km ÷ 25,000 km/year = 91 years

NMC Battery:

Minimum lifespan: 452,941 km ÷ 25,000 km/year = 18 years

Maximum lifespan: 905,882 km ÷ 25,000 km/year = 36 years


So when you consider the real world lifespan for most cars is 15-20 years, I don't think it really matters whether it's LFP or NMC, but environmentally speaking LFP is better. I guess you could also consider what uses repurposed LFP batteries could have once a car is scraped due to wear & tear.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926016#Comment_122926016

And to add to that.

The cycles of a battery is reached, the battery isn't dead. It's usually at 70-80% of design capacity.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122925993#Comment_122925993

It knocks out the splash and dash approach on long journeys though. Annoying. Especially since it has such a dismal charge curve.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926016#Comment_122926016

That's an excellent analysis, pretty much puts to bed the idea of batteries being dead after 8 years (not that I was a great believer in that anyway)

I'm still struggling to see the advantage of NMC for most cars. Performance vehicles I get the idea, you've more power density so you save weight

For most hatchbacks and family wagons power isn't as big a deal so they should be fine with LFP cells. I also like the idea of the cells not having any risk of a battery fire. I know the risk isn't that much to start with but zero risk is better than low risk

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926106#Comment_122926106

So what happens if you plug in 3 times to a fast charger because it failed the first two times? Does it still charge or does computer say no?

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926558#Comment_122926558

No idea, but would assume if no charge started, you'd be fine. Would be very nervous going for a fourth though.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926564#Comment_122926564

There's enough times that a charger has started and then sharted the bed after 1 minute that I'd be worried

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926558#Comment_122926558

No, like all EV’s I’d say it’s thermally managed.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926597#Comment_122926597

Yeah probably, it does sounds like the kind of dumb idea that a car manufacturer with almost zero interest in EVs would come up with

It reminds me of Nissan's defense of the Leaf rapid gating, they'd only ever considered one fast charge per day so determined it didn't need any active cooling (and the bloody thing still overheats)

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122926597#Comment_122926597

You would hope that is the case, otherwise its a joke. When I had my L30 first, and the range was still decent, I attempted a 350km journey on a few occasions. By the time I plugged into a dc charger for the 4 time the battery temp was in the red zone. I'd shudder the thing the battery temp if I was on my 10 charge. In any case I quickly gave up on the adventure when the last such journey took 7 hours and a considerable about of range anxiety