Random EV thoughts.....

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897198#Comment_122897198

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897314#Comment_122897314

Thanks, I honestly can't remember what the Toyota said for the GOM

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122896812#Comment_122896812

Not sure what point you're making there - diesel is fine for short trips but if it is doing 19 mpg it is likely barely moving and will also take ages to warm up. Extrapolating from that that the range is only 250 km? A diesel crawling in heavy traffic like that will take many hours if not days to run out of fuel - which is why urban diesel drivers don't get range anxiety.

Similarly, if you get stuck in heavy traffic on a cold day in an EV and turn on the resistive heater, your kWh per 100 km will be terrible. E.g. drive 5 km in an hour with 2 kW of heat = over 40 kWh per 100 km. That doesn't mean that the realistic range of a 40 kWh battery is 100 km.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897667#Comment_122897667

Resistive heaters are a rarity these days. Heat pumps are the norm now.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897824#Comment_122897824

Resistive only heating is far from a rarity. Off the top of my head MG4, Renault Megane models up until this year, many VW ID3 models, some ID7s, Hyundai Inster standard range - heat pumps optional or not available.

And anyway. regardless of whether the car uses a resistive heater and/or a heat pump, the point stands. Heat pumps use energy and if you are sitting in traffic barely moving and running one, your kWh per 100 km is going to be unrepresentative. Just like someone saying that their diesel does 19 mpg and has a range of only 250 km if used for "short journeys" is unrepresentative.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897924#Comment_122897924

Depending on the car, some cars take account of the energy use at standstill as well as in motion.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897667#Comment_122897667

I think the point was a GOM event in ICE is a best guess. In fairness it's a non issue in a ICE. But it's more significant in a BEV. So it's interesting but moot comparison. You're not wastefully setting fire to your surplus of energy. It's a different mindset.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122898356#Comment_122898356

Yeah, I had a car, that I knew I could do at least 30miles with 0 on the range.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897189#Comment_122897189

Nope, they dynamically change based on current drive style.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122897667#Comment_122897667

If your doing a daily local school run in cold weather then your tank will only get you 250km, but the GOM says 830km. People think they get 800-1000km from a tank of diesel but for short daily runs the actual real world range is far less. The range to empty will drop eventually to zero, but distance covered won't be 800km. It's more to show that diesel range is often optimistic starting off with a full tank higher reading than you are likely to get from lots of short trips. The range shown seems to assume 60MPG UK which is only achievable on longer trips.

obi604

In regard to abrp as shown above - let’s say you have a 2018 leaf and I guess at this stage that the battery should be at about 90% health. Should I essentially adjust the battery % above to be about 90% also?

(I guess it’s referring to what % battery you have the car charged to when you leave, but if it’s a few years old and degraded, it would be wiser to set at 90%)

Hope I’m making sense ! 🤓😬

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122904302#Comment_122904302

Exactly. Work out degradation and set it to that. You can get a ODB dongle (there's handful that are compatible) that connects to ABRP and will feed it live battery info.

Theres also speed settings which will show you the effect of speed on your journey.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122904392#Comment_122904392

Thanks, so I could set a 2018 leaf at 90%. And a 2018 Ioniq 28 at most likely 100%

Flinty997

Exactly. It's a really useful tool to test journeys in lots of different cars. Or try different driving speeds or charge durations on a planned journey. Interface is a clunky.

Also handy to catch out people posting fud about poor range.

People say it's overly pessimistic but that's probably a good idea. I've not really used it on a journey other than to test it.

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122904449#Comment_122904449

yeah, in fairness, it’s a brilliant resource to have. Pessimism is good here 🤓

mfceiling

I can't believe you pay Tesla €10 a month for Spotify, Netflix, Disney and live traffic information.

CMOTDibbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909051#Comment_122909051

I wonder what else they can turn into a subscription service. Tyre pressure monitoring? Rain sensing wipers? Automatic headlights?

Madness 🤣

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122904511#Comment_122904511

There is a battery degradation setting in ABRP, it's in Settings, Vehicle Settings

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909051#Comment_122909051

to use an existing Spotify account in a Tesla you need to pay for Tesla connect?

obi604

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909216#Comment_122909216

is this in a paid version of it?

Edit: ignore. Thanks for pointing that out.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909051#Comment_122909051

Never miss an opportunity to extract some income from drivers 🙄

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909051#Comment_122909051

I don't, loads don't and there are plenty of ways around it. Google

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122909216#Comment_122909216

I never noticed that, good shout.

pad406

This could be an interesting option in the future if it works out. Great for shared/non-designated parking areas. Maybe a few people could share one either. Can't see any specs on the speed other than 30miles added in an hour, so not that fast yet.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/business/2022/06/17/ziggy-ev-charging-robot-orig-ht.cnn-business

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122910877#Comment_122910877

Clever…

Ev fan

I see there's a bit of huha in the UK re the luxury car tax with EVS included. The threshold is 40k cost price which in fairness is low enough and will capture a lot of new EVs. I think the tax adds about 2.5k over 6 years of ownership. Combined with no grants/incentives etc. It doesn't look like the Labour Govt is helping EVs introduction unless they change this.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912677#Comment_122912677

The UK still has the salary sacrifice scheme, you can purchase an EV using salary sacrifice to offset income tax. That's a pretty sizeable incentive for most people. They also still have the ZEV mandate which requires a given manufacturer to reach a percentage sales target per year, the penalty for vehicles under the target is £15k per vehicle. This is under review by the current UK government but is still currently in place.

It looks like the policy goal is to bring the cost of ZEVs down so that more people can afford them. Looking at the ev-database.co.uk there are lots of options under the £40,000 mark. I find it a bit rich when people in quite nice cars are complaining that they're now having to pay taxes on the cost of a nice car.

the_amazing_raisin

So I've been looking at LFP cells for solar batteries and EVE now have cells which are rated to 70% capacity for 10,000 cycles

That's 27 years of use assuming 1 cycle per day

It makes you wonder about battery warranties being limited to 8 years, by all measures it seems the cars should achieve several times that without many issues

I get that the test conditions are quite different, for example most LFP cells are rated for 0.5C charge or discharge. So an 80kWh battery would be limited to 40kW of power and most EVs would be 2-3 times the battery capacity in terms of charging and discharge power

At the same time, you'd think manufacturers could be a bit more confident in their products. I suppose from their viewpoint, 8 years is the expected lifetime of a car without any serious issues and anything beyond that is bonus time

It also makes me wonder what the point of NCM cells is these days. I know they've better performance, but LFP really is good enough for most cases and is much safer and more robust (and cheaper)

It's good to see manufacturers switching over to LFP, I think that trend is going to increase dramatically in the next couple of years

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912786#Comment_122912786

In fairness I didn't research the UK prices for EVs but the article mentioned Kona EVs as being captured on the tax which I thought wouldn't be considered a premium EV. Also I'm coming from a retired position so salary sacrifice wouldn't benefit retirees which might be a significant cohort of EV buyers? In any event , if as you say it will drive down EV prices then that's a good thing. On a separate note here in Ireland with all the low cost new EVs coming on stream I'm hoping that this will spur EV sales for 2025 and drive EV growth onwards and upwards.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912870#Comment_122912870

I'd be wary of expecting any sales bump, if you look at the ICE sales then the biggest sellers are typically expensive crossovers, not budget hatchbacks

There's a very definite trend towards larger vehicles in terms of car sales and I don't see this changing for EVs

It's great to have the option of budget hatchbacks, but I think the better focus would be to make to price match the EV equivalents against ICE

This is happening already for some manufacturers, but I think they really shot themselves in the foot with the price hikes from around 2021-23. They seem to have burned a lot of customers in terms of resale value who in turn are spreading bad press about losing a ton of money on their shiny new EV

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122912947#Comment_122912947

Exactly this. Its in their interest to move the market to more expensive vehicles like SUVs because there is more profit margins in them than smaller cars. Is true of ICE and also for EVs.

True they've burnt their market with a price war. But that started with Tesla, trying to maintain market share long before the Chinese became a factor. Tesla don't sell used cars. Nature of a new market though, hard to avoid.