Random EV thoughts.....

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118276948#Comment_118276948

True, I remember the train broke down shortly after leaving Sligo. Because there's only 1 train line up that way, they had to drive the breakdown train up there from Enfield and hold every train back until Dublin before they could clear the line

And the greens say we should get the train everywhere 🤣

Cyrus

i think that article was a bit on the negative side to be honest, and i'm not sure he used ABRP to review his route either re chargers.

the stopping to charge thing is a bit stupid, i spent far less time in a forecourt refueling my car now than i did when i had a diesel car.

NIMAN

I think Weckler is a decent journo and I don't think it was a price written as a hacket job.

boccy23

Where is the perspective though? Ok, an EV is a more expensive up front capital investment (and we know that there is some "pain" re owning one if you plan on doing 300 KM trips), but the beneficial cost of electricity at €0.06/KW on night rate or €0.12/KW on normal rates (there or thereabouts) versus €1.60-€1.80/litre of Diesel/Petrol has to be included in any sane conversation over what their next car will be.

This "rangeaphobia" annoys the hell out of me. I have had the ID4 since April and have charged 3 times in the wild - even then 2 of these were just to try it out. Ok, I do have access to a charger in work, but I have also used granny cables in multiple places. It may be slow, but as the car is just sitting there anyway, I think it is a far more useful use of the time.

If the media is serious about trying to have an open and constructive debate over EVs, then the initial cost is a ridiculous start.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Last month, I went looking for an electric car.

My only real requirement was a range of at least 350 ‘real’ kilometres per charge. To my dismay, I found almost nothing available for under €50,000 — a price level I can’t justify nor afford.

No mention of ID.3 Tour 5, Kona, Soul and Niro 64kWh. That's more than "almost nothing" for less that €50k. Rest of it is fair and miles better than the hatchet jobs.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278300#Comment_118278300

Kona is a 2 seat CUV if your rear passengers have legs.

Can the small battery ID3 or base spec soul/niro do 350km on the motorway at 120 in the winter? I dont think so.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278275#Comment_118278275

Your EV obviously suits your use case, so good job. If you've only public charged 3 times then I guess you dont do 350km on the motorway in the winter so your use case does not match that posed in the article.

shanec1928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118258417#Comment_118258417

was the process Straightforward? and was the price what is on the esb document? in the same situation with a 8kva MIC which we will likely need to increase in the near future when we add an ev.

boccy23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278338#Comment_118278338

Neither is he. He is looking for the occasion when he may do it. If he plans, it can be done. Not saying it is simple or straight forward, but it can certainly be done.

What I am stating is be realistic in what you expect your car to do for you. If someone is driving from Limerick to Dublin and back everyday, then 100% current EVs are not for you.

But I would suggest that this is a very small minority of people and it is a more realistic expectation that most journeys are less than 100KMs and can be easily done via an EV.

This comes at a much lower running cost than current ICEs.

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278331#Comment_118278331

*insert vanilla smileys* Didn't know the Kona was that small, they look chunky.

He mentions the small battery Niro alongside Zoe and e208 as being unable for 300km which is true. Next mention is the Enyaq at €45k but no mention of ID3 Tour 5 and Niro 64kWh.

innrain

The subject of the article it is very close to one or two threads that were popular a couple of weeks ago. And while I admit it is technically correct it misses the point. And I'll take it backwards with the price first.

There is often a blind spot about acknowledging the elephant in the room. How many Irish people can really afford a €28,000 Ford Fiesta sized car? Let alone a €40,000 or €50,000 family car?

The target audience of a new Ioniq5 it is not the student buying the 10 years old fiesta or punto. It is the family buying the brand new Tucson, the best sold car of the year which has a market share of 5%+. Tucson price range 35k-45k. Ioniq5 price range 38k-65k. Plenty of overlap. On top of that comes the running costs which increase this overlap even more. The top 10 new regs in 2021 has 7 models around the 40k budget. The best VW sold is not the Polo or Golf but the Tiguan which starts at ...40k. Even Yaris has a starting point of 22k but it can go over 60k. The 15k Dacia Sandero referred to in the article sold less units than BMW 5 series (way more expensive) So to answer the question lots. Or better said more people would spend +40k than -20k. Based on figures not on sentiments.

On the range issue It may be boring to say that the average drive on this island is <20km and even the author mentioned that you can rent for the one time a year you drive out of your comfort zone. I drove a Kona from Derry or Castlebar to Dublin without the need to charge but I still stopped somewhere along the route. If a regular ICE doesn't need refueling why service stations like Cashel or B Obama Plaza are always full? The author says it does not blame the ESB/ecars/service stations for the poor network we have. Well I do. But I do blame mostly the govs for inanition and inaction. A good charging network would make even the small batteries to be competitive on the market which would be the pressure for the prices to drop. It would increase de demand for EV while decreasing the demand for ICEs. A reliable network would make charging stops unnoticeable (looking at you ecars). If someone asks here on boards "I want an EV to drive xxx km", the generic answer is "Buy a Tesla" (even though may sound condescending) because in spite of "barely bothered to put any Tesla superchargers into Ireland" Tesla is synonim with reliable infrastructure.

Lastly I blame media for not playing its part in education and opinion forming. I'd like to see an article on the lines

Guys we are in deep s#!t. Climate change is a fact. We have to act now. It may be cheaper and easier to buy a Tucson on the short run but here are ways of making life easier with an Ioniq on the long run. Here are the facts verified by us....... Please send us your suggestions and we make sure we verify and discuss with appropriate stakeholders.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278569#Comment_118278569

You realize Tesla have the most fast chargers on the island and have 3 more sites in construction and should all be running by January😁

NCC1701

As the owner of a 10 year old Qashqai diesel, yes I would LOVE to buy an EV to do my part in reducing air pollution as I know that Earth is on the slippery slope and my kids or "at best", their kids with have to deal with a ruined planet. My commute is 80kms round trip and therefore well within the range of even a small EV (although squeezing 4 teenagers and two Collies into a Zoe would be fun!). I have a driveway and so a home charger would suit me, all on a cheap night rate tariff. So I'd rarely, if ever need to plan my routes round a public charging network (that by all accounts is abysmal in Ireland buy hey ho, when have we ever gotten the whole "infrastructure" thing right!). Plus the minimal running costs of an EV and the joy of driving past a fossil fuel station with their prices increasing exponentially would be grin inducing.

However.............. Weckler is right in saying that the initial cost is the biggest hurdle to overcome. I've been looking at the MG ZS as I feel it is big enough for my brood but even at the €30k-ish mark, its well outside my price range, about double what I could afford. If the powers that be were serious about the whole "1 million EV's on the road by 2030" thing, they'd introduce scrappage schemes for old cars, cut VRT on EV's etc. But that'll never happen as the current demand for EV's is high anyway (no shortage of buyers) and I'm fairly certain manufacturers would increase their prices if the Government reduced the tax take. So next year when I finally put my Qashqai to rest, I'll be looking at another fossil fuel car, a 4 year old second hand one or a cheap new one like a Dascia. Not my first choices but EV's are too expensive for my needs.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278957#Comment_118278957

The quotes are from the article not my words. My words are SuC is the most reliable network. Also when comparing with other European countries we are a bit low in SuC numbers. Even Iceland beats us.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278300#Comment_118278300

Model 3 with the new ~60kwh battery and under 50k would meet these criteria too.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278986#Comment_118278986

Well what I will say is that oftentime if you compare an equivalent spec diesel to an EV, they'll come in within a similar price. And cars in general have become unaffordable over the past 20-30 years. Just look at the rise of PCP finiance deals, which are often the only way that buyers can afford a new car

The problem is that there is very few (if any) low spec and low power EVs on the market. Comparing even base spec EVs doesn't work because the EV often has much more power available from the motor which drives the price up (even if it is artificial, often doesn't cost the manufacturer more to produce it)

As I've said before, the car manufactuers have very little incentive to push down prices. They're selling everything they make and even raising prices by eliminating lower spec models. Until someone comes along and offers an EV for €20k there's not going to be any options for cheap EVs except the 2nd hand market (which ain't looking cheap these days)

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278569#Comment_118278569

You'll never make it in journalism by informing people of sensible, fact based aritcles unfortunately 😏

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278986#Comment_118278986

Have you considered an Ioniq 28kWh? More 2019 Konas will drop to around 25k next month. The savings on fuel will push you on something bigger in 2 years time.

crisco10

The perception is out there that EVs are more expensive (and was one I had). But whats mad is that even with the more expensive up front cost over 5 or so years people can easily recoup the additional cost.

The difference in operational costs is bonkers when you look at it. But that's not a very sexy sell. And in fact it was only the MG EV range that even tempted me to do the calc in the 1st place. And I realised a mid priced octavia worked out more expensive than the 64kWh eniro or Ioniq 5.

Since I ordered the Ioniq 5, Id say 9 out of 10 of the people I mention it to come back with the "expensive" argument. And over a reasonable period of ownership it just isn't. It's cheap.

Anyway, preaching to the converted here. What's really missing, and will come, is a 2nd hand market

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277430#Comment_118277430

A 5 minutes stop to put 800km into the audi vs how long to put half in id4. I think that's the point. And if unlikely there is a car ahead of you.....

Manion

Not sure if this is the right place but I've been perplexed lately about home electricity packages. I've looked at smart meters and ev packages and they all seem like really bad deals. I've spent the weekend trying to figure out why Smart meter rates are so much more expensive than day/night meters rates and cannot for the life of me.

In the I've signed up for a day/night meter with Bord Gais today 21.62c/10.7 cent including vat an a 299.5 standing charge. I feel bad going down this route as smart meters are being rolled out and it seems wasteful but they just seem like really bad deals.

DrPhilG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279471#Comment_118279471

You're focusing on a tiny majority case though. It takes me 30 seconds to plug in my car and that gives me 450km range overnight without doing anything else.

If I'm driving Donegal to Cork, (how often is that really needed) then I'll probably stop at least twice to take a pee and grab something from the shop.

A top up at a fast charger anywhere between Monaghan and Thurles and I'm sorted. The average stop for a pee and a burger is probably 20-30 minutes during which time I'll add between 80 and 100km.

With charging for charging now in place there would be no difficulty at all in getting a charge at some point in that stretch.

And the other 99% of the year when I'm not driving Donegal to Cork, I'm paying at least €2k less for fuel than I would in a petrol or diesel. Probably a lot better saving than that now. When I first switched I calculated a €2k saving and that was 6 years ago when diesel was massively cheaper.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, refuelling on the road is of course quicker in a diesel. But I would have been spending that 30 minutes at a motorway station anyway even if I only spent a few minutes filling the tank.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278444#Comment_118278444

To be fair calling 350km real range was a bit disingenuous anyway , what he meant what was the maximum range in sub optimal conditions that persist for maybe 25 percent of the year.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279774#Comment_118279774

I have just moved into a new house and smart meter was already fitted, so no Day/Night option for me.

Electric Ireland's HomeSaver + 30% discount was best I could find as a Smart Meter user, and it's something like 18c per kWh, no timing benefits.

Very disappointed in the tariffs tbh - would it have been so tough for them to setup comparable to the Day/Night ones?

cannco253

I wonder what would happen if the Dacia Spring got released here? If you remove the general EV price argument and it was on sale for EUR13k would people buy it or would range become the dominant issue?

Manion

It wouldn't have been hard at all, and according to bord gais if I get a smart meter in the future I can stay on that tarriff but I've my doubts. I don't know yet what the EV will demand in terms of electricity.

cannco253

https://insideevs.com/news/552822/europe-nissan-more-chargers-dealerships/

no mention of Ireland

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118280831#Comment_118280831

There will always be another excuse, once upon a time EVs weren't practical because they only did 100km and the reviewer needed 150km to be comfortable. As the available range has increased the requirements have become more crazy. I expect to read next year about the reviewer who needs to drive to Estonia 4 times a year meaning an EV just isn't a reasonable choice.

NIMAN

Correct LiamOg, the goalposts keep changing. I hear it myself when others ask me about my EV. The vast majority never drive more than 100km in a day, yet they need 2 cars that can go to Cork right now in an emergency!

Any 2 car household should really be able to manage one of them being a cheap eV. We have been doing it for a few years, like many on Boards.

For the runs to the supermarket, the school, the dropoffs to football training etc etc. They are built for that type of workload.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279471#Comment_118279471

A potential 5 minutes. Most people are hung in the refueling time difference not in the actual stop.

After approx 2-3h driving, aching and with some bladder pressure one ICE driver stop at the pump refuels (in 5 mins) pays, if not already then parks the car, goes to the washroom then gets a coffee/snack goes and does some stretching, serves the beverage and then goes back to the car to get on with the trip. The EV driver with a decent charging network, parks the car plugs in the charger and does all the same activities. I have to be fair and say that this scenario in Ireland is limited to a small number of service station and mostly to Tesla owners but this is where we should aim. How much longer is the stop of the EV driver? How many minutes lost? Check Bjorn's 1000km spreadsheet you're in for a surprise.