Random EV thoughts.....

slave1

slave1 wrote: »

I was looking at that too, very hard to find the details of max usage (as their current plan has a max usage policy)??

unkel wrote: »

There is, but it is huge, several thousand units per 2 months billing cycle. Most people wouldn't hit that unless you have a large house with only electric heating and probably 2 EVs

Hey Unkel, would you mind digging out the montly cap on this.
My current Energia Plan has the following to say...
Above 3,000kWh day usage and 2,000kWh night usage every two months

So that's 1,000kWh at night a month which I edge up to even with COVID lockdown...

the_amazing_raisin

unkel wrote: »

There is, but it is huge, several thousand units per 2 months billing cycle. Most people wouldn't hit that unless you have a large house with only electric heating and probably 2 EVs

If it's the same as the typical allowance it's 2000kWh at the night rate per billing cycle


I'd say heat pump plus 2 EVs could get fairly close to this value, especially if you're storing nighttime energy in batteries for daytime use


However, the excess night rate of 13.02c/kWh is still lower than the day rate, so still makes sense to use as much at night rate as possible

unkel

slave1 wrote: »

Hey Unkel, would you mind digging out the montly cap on this.
My current Energia Plan has the following to say...
Above 3,000kWh day usage and 2,000kWh night usage every two months

So that's 1,000kWh at night a month which I edge up to even with COVID lockdown...

Yeah I think I saw those figures somewhere / they were mentioned to me on the phone. Best double check, don't take my word / vague recollection for it

You said your second EV is charged purely on PV now, so you are still using nearly 12MWh per year on night rate alone for one EV and your house? That is a huge consumption presuming you don't do big miles on your main EV, I guess you have a very big house and electric room heating and electric water heating only?

slave1

One 2.3kW storage heater used 5/6months of the year, electric water heating, electric shower X 2/3 every day (pumped shower also on same time) and everything on at night like dishwasher/dryer/washing machine.
Thirsty home cinema on every night for 2/3hrs.
Oh, and two EVs.
The Leaf currently down to 46% from school drops offs etc so may need to hook her up soon.

As I'm newbie PV I'm moving stuff from night to day but this week just dryer and diverted water heating only, muggy week.

After COVID and with regular EV charging then likely to exceed their current night limits, time will tell

KCross

The Energia limit is 2000kWh at night per 2 month billing period. The cost goes up marginally for each unit above the 2000 after that so even if you exceed the 2000 its not that big a deal.

I go over 2000 about once a year... its not that hard to do with a heat pump and an EV.

slave1

Just looked back on my meter readings I was taking around PV install, will all devices on and charging the Tesla I was just over 80units at night rate one night, drops back to 55 when charging the Leaf

Orebro

This somewhat proves the manufacturers will get a bit creative and play ball if the grant limit is lowered:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-introduces-new-64kwh-e-niro-eligible-%C2%A32500-grant

liamog

Orebro wrote: »

This somewhat proves the manufacturers will get a bit creative and play ball if the grant limit is lowered:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-introduces-new-64kwh-e-niro-eligible-%C2%A32500-grant

I'd love to see Hyundai release a Kona with the same spec as the entry petrol car so we can get an honest view on the price difference

13.6% of european market now.
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/electrified-vehicles-are-doubling-their-european-market-share-in-2021/

Orebro

Orebro wrote: »

This somewhat proves the manufacturers will get a bit creative and play ball if the grant limit is lowered:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/kia-introduces-new-64kwh-e-niro-eligible-%C2%A32500-grant

price drop on Mokka-e to retain the grant.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/23/vauxhall-changes-its-ev-pricing-to-keep-vehicles-eligible-for-uk-plug-in-car-grant-picg/

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

13.6% of european market now.
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/03/electrified-vehicles-are-doubling-their-european-market-share-in-2021/

That's anything with a plug though, not just BEVs. Nothing wrong with BEVs, an electric kilometre driven in a PHEV counts just as much as in a BEV.

Banana Republic 1

Kramer wrote: »

That's anything with a plug though, not just BEVs. Nothing wrong with BEVs, an electric kilometre driven in a PHEV counts just as much as in a BEV.

The PHEV thing will be the next diesel gate, the emissions from there ICE segments is way over what’s claimed.

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

price drop on Mokka-e to retain the grant.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/03/23/vauxhall-changes-its-ev-pricing-to-keep-vehicles-eligible-for-uk-plug-in-car-grant-picg/

In other news, car manufacturers admit they've been inflating prices on their EVs :rolleyes:

the_amazing_raisin

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The PHEV thing will be the next diesel gate, the emissions from there ICE segments is way over what’s claimed.

Simple solution to that, make petrol €5/litre, everyone with a PHEV will charge it as much as possible to avoid those annoying cash stealing petrol pumps

the_amazing_raisin

yop wrote: »

Apologise if mentioned already.
But I see Energia are doing an EV Package rate for electric vehicles to be charged at night. For me having a night meter its 4 cents. Thats a big difference to the 9 cents I'm paying at the moment.

You know it'd be nice if Energia (or someone else) would team up with DC charging providers and start providing discounts on fast charging to customers. I think Octopus energy in the UK are doing this and several of the energy companies in Norway have been doing that for a while


They could even have a paid subscription option, if I was an Energia customer doing regular long trips then I'd consider paying more in a subscription if it got a discount at Ionity

Silent Running

I noticed on the Energia site that there is a price increase from April 5th. Expect a hefty 8.6% increase on the bill.

I'm with Energia at the moment, so if I change to the EV plan I won't get a welcome bonus if I do my annual provider change. Currently this is €200 with SSE. The standing charge is lower with SSE too, and the night rate is 8.07c including VAT. This is only marginally higher than the 7.58c with the Energia EV plan from April 5th.

So, with a €200 welcome, a lower standing charge and a cheaper day rate after 5th April, I think I'll just go with SSE this year.

Am I missing something obvious? Comments welcome.

the_amazing_raisin

Silent Running wrote: »

I noticed on the Energia site that there is a price increase from April 5th. Expect a hefty 8.6% increase on the bill.

I'm with Energia at the moment, so if I change to the EV plan I won't get a welcome bonus if I do my annual provider change. Currently this is €200 with SSE. The standing charge is lower with SSE too, and the night rate is 8.07c including VAT. This is only marginally higher than the 7.58c with the Energia EV plan from April 5th.

So, with a €200 welcome, a lower standing charge and a cheaper day rate after 5th April, I think I'll just go with SSE this year.

Am I missing something obvious? Comments welcome.

What I've noticed is that Energia is good for high consumers because the low rates outweigh the higher standing charge. For example our usage last year was close to 10MWh and will likely rise to 12MWh when we have 2 EVs


However, their recent price increase has largely closed the gap with other suppliers, last I checked Bord Gais and Glow Power were around the same price for my levels of usage


If you're trying to estimate the usage of an EV, you can work it out if you know your annual mileage and the car's consumption


Example:
Mileage = 12,000km
Average consumption = 16kWh/100km = 160Wh/km


Annual usage = (Mileage(km)*Consumtipn(Wh/km))/1000
(12000*160)/1000 = 1920kWh


For billing purposes you can just add about 2000 kWh to your previous night rate usage to estimate

DrPhilG

Sounds like you're right, as an end of contract change you're better with SSE.

I'm only a few months in with Energia so I'm happy to switch mid contract. Even if it means extending the term to 12 months from now.

Silent Running

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

What I've noticed is that Energia is good for high consumers because the low rates outweigh the higher standing charge. For example our usage last year was close to 10MWh and will likely rise to 12MWh when we have 2 EVs


However, their recent price increase has largely closed the gap with other suppliers, last I checked Bord Gais and Glow Power were around the same price for my levels of usage


If you're trying to estimate the usage of an EV, you can work it out if you know your annual mileage and the car's consumption


Example:
Mileage = 12,000km
Average consumption = 16kWh/100km = 160Wh/km


Annual usage = (Mileage(km)*Consumtipn(Wh/km))/1000
(12000*160)/1000 = 1920kWh


For billing purposes you can just add about 2000 kWh to your previous night rate usage to estimate

For me the EV usage is a normal factor in estimating annual electricity cost, and has been for years. I'm just comparing suppliers with a view to migrating to a new supplier, as I've done every year.

There is no incentive to be loyal to any supplier, in fact the opposite is true.

Silent Running

Just found out that SSE have a 6.2% increase planned for April 1st.

slave1

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Example:
Mileage = 12,000km
Average consumption = 16kWh/100km = 160Wh/km


Annual usage = (Mileage(km)*Consumtipn(Wh/km))/1000
(12000*160)/1000 = 1920kWh

At a minimum you need to add 8% due to AC to DC losses at car charger end of things, also depending on the EV it will use battery power every minute of the day when parked up, this adds up!

slave1

Silent Running wrote: »

For me the EV usage is a normal factor in estimating annual electricity cost, and has been for years. I'm just comparing suppliers with a view to migrating to a new supplier, as I've done every year.

There is no incentive to be loyal to any supplier, in fact the opposite is true.

100% right, switch every year is the mantra, my loyalty is to my pocket

whippet

and the trigger has been pulled - i'll be sitting in a Leaf this time next week

About 2-3 years ahead of schedule for me in a BEV .... but only made possible as I have the option of a decent PHEV on the driveway as an alternative !

Banana Republic 1

slave1 wrote: »

100% right, switch every year is the mantra, my loyalty is to my pocket

Agh our old friend capitalism

AndyBoBandy

whippet wrote: »

and the trigger has been pulled - i'll be sitting in a Leaf this time next week

About 2-3 years ahead of schedule for me in a BEV .... but only made possible as I have the option of a decent PHEV on the driveway as an alternative !

Brilliant. Fair play to you and welcome to (full) EV driving...

the_amazing_raisin

whippet wrote: »

and the trigger has been pulled - i'll be sitting in a Leaf this time next week

About 2-3 years ahead of schedule for me in a BEV .... but only made possible as I have the option of a decent PHEV on the driveway as an alternative !

Enjoy, best of luck with it! You can now laugh at those petrol prices every time you drive past the station


Unless you're in the PHEV and need a fill up, then you might feel like crying

Black_Knight

Silent Running wrote: »

Just found out that SSE have a 6.2% increase planned for April 1st.

Some joke! Pun intended.

Most suppliers have increases upcoming.
Energia increase is April 5th I think.
Glowpower have increases throughout April.
Flogas increases on the 12th April.
Panda power increases on 8th April
EDIT: Bord gais price increases from 12th April

I'm due for renewal in April, so it's a bit of a minefield to navigate. Energia still looks like my best bet for Electric, Bord Gais for gas, though Bord Gais have not (yet?) announced any price increases so it's a risk.

Silent Running

Black_Knight wrote: »

Some joke! Pun intended.

Most suppliers have increases upcoming.
Energia increase is April 5th I think.
Glowpower have increases throughout April.
Flogas increases on the 12th April.
Panda power increases on 8th April
EDIT: Bord gais price increases from 12th April

I'm due for renewal in April, so it's a bit of a minefield to navigate. Energia still looks like my best bet for Electric, Bord Gais for gas, though Bord Gais have not (yet?) announced any price increases so it's a risk.

Bright Future Energy say that they have no immediate plans to increase prices, but obviously there will probably be increases at some point. The good thing is that you'll get 30 days notice of increases and there are no contracts tying you in, so you can leg it without penalty if you don't like the new rates.

Their rates are OK and the standing charge is low.

the_amazing_raisin

Looks like both Renault and VW group are building their electric truck portfolios
https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/24/renault-plans-for-electric-truck-in-each-segment-by-2023/

Interestingly, they specifically mention electric long haul trucks, not hydrogen hybrid models

I imagine truck manufacturers would be working with hauliers since it's a big high value market, so they must have some ideas on how to work around charging stops

I guess it's possible that the fuel savings are so great that hauliers are willing to sacrifice some time in exchange

AndyBoBandy

I see the new Renault Kangoo EV with it's 44kWh battery (265km WLTP) can AC charge at up to 22kW..

Great that at least 1 manufacturer is looking at a network of 22kW chargers, and deciding their EV offerings should be able to fully utilise them.....


Those Kangoo's should fly off the shelf as taxi's (and if wheelchair accessible, the full @25k grant). Add in the ability to add in 50% of charge in 1 hour at any AC22, and they'd be a really attractive prospect!!!