Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Cody montana

mattser wrote: »

And he's still there and the world is still turning. Suck it up and change the record.

When hadn’t the world stopped turning?
Trough war and famine, it always has.

ToBeFrank123

Its virtually impossible to impeach a president as it requires a 2/3rds majority I believe to do so, and Republicans are unlikely to back it.

Even though Trump's actions are bordering on treasonous, seeking foreign assistance to smear an opposing presidential candidate.

Tchaikovsky

The world didn't turn before Trump was president. Now it does, the bigliest.

one armed dwarf

Posters like the one who got red carded aren't interested in policies and achievements anymore, it's purely about identity for them now.

Penn

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Posters like the one who got red carded aren't interested in policies and achievements anymore, it's purely about identity for them now.

I did see something someone posted on Reddit recently about how it's just no longer about right or wrong, it's about winning or losing, and they've backed Trump so much that they now can't turn on him, because that would be losing. So they have to go all in with their support for him.

mad muffin

The swamp is clearly disturbed. Because the president has done something I haven’t witnessed in thirty years. He’s actually injecting strategy back into American foreign and defence policy.

Let me explain…

He’s turned to Erdogan who’s been trying to carve out a portion of Syria now for a very long time. Remember Erdogan is also partially responsible for standing up ISIS. Then ISIS turned out to be a Frankenstein’s monster and he decided, that it needed to be brought under control.

Now he wants to resettle Sunni Arab refugees in north western Syria and create a kind of security zone for Turkish interests.

Trump simultaneously told Erdogan, you can do this but now you are responsible for dealing with ISIS. If ISIS rears it’s head, if it comes back, it’s your problem.

This is a very a very important point. Trump has shifted the burden of responsibility, for something that is clearly regional, clearly goes back to Turkey, to Erdogan.

At the same time Russia has promised to maintain the territorial integrity of Syria come what may. How is Russia going to deal with Erdogan, who has decided to carve out a piece of of Syria for his own purposes?

Then we have Iran. Iran wants to maintain it's connectivity to Lebanon and its Shia alliance in that country. But with the Turks dominating northern Syria, Iran now is going to be unable, or at least will find it far, far more difficult to connect with Lebanon.

The point is, Trump has checkmated all of the key players in the region, in Syria. Now they must confront each other for a change.

What about the Kurds, I hear you ask?

Before America arrived the communist Kurds in northern Syria, who have a long history and a close relationship with Moscow as a result. We’re always interested in aligning themselves with anyone that would further their cause, when their cause involves independence for themselves in Syria, and also attacks against the Turks whom they regard as enemies.

In the absence of America the Kurds now have to make a decision. Do they make peace with Damascus, which is what the Russians have told them to do. Which is what America has privately told them to do. Which is what the Syrian government would like them to do. Or do the Kurds decide to take on the Turks independently? I would think that the Syrian Kurds would decide it’s probably in their interest to side with Damascus.

So once America pulls out I think we’ll see that happen. Here’s something else. Israel benefits from this because Iran is now at loggerheads with Turkey. Iran is interested in connecting to Hezbollah. The Russian have no interest in turning Syria into for a platform for attack against Israel, so the Russians and Iranians who are checkmated by the Turks. Now the Turks, and all three of these have to deal with reality, that Israel and America are benefiting from the withdrawal.

hetuzozaho

mad muffin wrote: »

The swamp is clearly disturbed. Because the president has done something I haven’t witnessed in thirty years. He’s actually injecting strategy back into American foreign and defence policy.

Should you add quotes and who it is from to that post?

FrostyJack

The Kurds should just make peace? Do you even know why they have conflict with Turkey? The rest is complete fantasy stuff as well but good try. Should have just started the post with "I am not a big fan of Trump but" and save us reading the rest.

EDIT. Don't know why Listermints post was copied in there. I cant seem to edit it to delete it on my phone. Sorry.

26000 Elephants

The naivety of the 'Kurds make peace' position fails to take account of the factions within the Kurds themselves: some wanting nothing short of independence from everyone, others willing to settle for autonomy within Syria.

Igotadose

Impeachment support growing, moreso among Republicans than independents:

"Since a July poll by The Post and ABC, there has been movement toward an impeachment inquiry among all three groups, with support for the inquiry rising by 25 points among Democrats, 21 points among Republicans and 20 points among independents,”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/new-poll-20-point-increase-impeachment-inquiry-republicans.html

mcmoustache

These numbers and how they move are what will ultimately decide Trump's fate.

The conventional wisdom has been that Trump will be impeached by the house and acquitted by the Senate. And that would be true if they took place tomorrow.

The problem is that things change over time. Trump's impeachment isn't going to be about the Democrats laying out their case and hoping to convince the Republicans. It's going to be about the Democrats making their case to American voters, or more importantly Republican voters. The republicans in the Senate aren't going to be looking at the evidence and when they decide whether to convict or acquit - they're going to be looking at how their voters feel. Sure, there may be a few who'll ignore their voters but most won't. Politicians like being elected, after all.

This is why these numbers are important. The senators and congressmen will be looking at these numbers as well as internal polls to see where they should stand. If these numbers end up showing more and more support for impeachment as time goes on, it could reach a point where McConnell or a bloc yet to emerge under someone like Romney decide that it's in the interests of the Republican Party to convict. Like I said, conviction won't be decided directly on its merits but will be decided by the sentiment of Republican voters.

And one final point on these numbers. Those will depend on what gets unearthed and how Trump behaves over the coming months. And that depends on whether or not Trump did anything wrong and whether or not he'll change his behaviour or double down.

everlast75

Well this seems significant!

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1181569881533292544?s=19

No wonder the very explicit reply came back 5 hours later. He ran it by the WH.

check_six

Igotadose wrote: »

Impeachment support growing, moreso among Republicans than independents:

"Since a July poll by The Post and ABC, there has been movement toward an impeachment inquiry among all three groups, with support for the inquiry rising by 25 points among Democrats, 21 points among Republicans and 20 points among independents,”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/new-poll-20-point-increase-impeachment-inquiry-republicans.html

Is this what he meant when he said his poll figures were rising in that Military Leaders Briefing a few posts back?

THE PRESIDENT: Not at all, because the call was a perfect call. You had stenographers, you had people that took it down exactly. It was a perfect call. It’s just a scam. This is a scam by the Democrats to try and win an election that they’re not going to win in 2020.

All you have to do is take a look at the polls, see what happened. One poll had me up 12 points, 16 points, or 17 points.

spacecoyote

everlast75 wrote: »

Well this seems significant!

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1181569881533292544?s=19

No wonder the very explicit reply came back 5 hours later. He ran it by the WH.

And to take things a bit further again:

https://www.ft.com/content/9d71f6f6-e9c9-11e9-85f4-d00e5018f061

They've also ordered Sondland not to appear to congress for the impeachment enquiry

everlast75

spacecoyote wrote: »

And to take things a bit further again:

https://www.ft.com/content/9d71f6f6-e9c9-11e9-85f4-d00e5018f061

They've also ordered Sondland not to appear to congress for the impeachment enquiry

I'm getting a little miffed at the "softly softly" approach by the Dems.

Time to bring the proverbial hammer down on some of them boys. It's the only way progress will be made

TomOnBoard

everlast75 wrote: »

I'm getting a little miffed at the "softly softly" approach by the Dems.

Time to bring the proverbial hammer down on some of them boys. It's the only way progress will be made

I'm not sure that the Dems have a hammer they can use other than preparing further articles of impeachment for obstruction of justice. Once someone is ordered to do or not do something by their chain of command, that person seems to be largely immune from punishment of any kind. This was most obvious in the case of Don McGahn, and it's been getting steadily worse ever since, with subpoenas being ignored and WH aides refusing to appear before Congress. In a properly resourced system, the sergeant at arms would have been ordered to lock Corey Lewandowsky up for contempt of Congress weeks ago. But they have no jail to put him in!

Infini

Igotadose wrote: »

Impeachment support growing, moreso among Republicans than independents:

"Since a July poll by The Post and ABC, there has been movement toward an impeachment inquiry among all three groups, with support for the inquiry rising by 25 points among Democrats, 21 points among Republicans and 20 points among independents,”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/new-poll-20-point-increase-impeachment-inquiry-republicans.html

This is where things could get interesting, sure there's plenty of idiots in the more extreme wings of the republicans but there has to be plenty of them in the moderate wings who realise that Trump is an embarassment and a liability even to their views.

Ultimately if it get's real serious he could be essentially forced to resign if the republicans realise he's too much of a liability to defend expecially in an election year against a rather well liked former Vice President.

Overheal

Turkey rejects Trump’s twitter threats about obliterating Turkey’s economy and says military strikes against US-allied Kurds are imminent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/turkey-rejectstrumps-threats-amid-conflicting-us-signals-over-syria-offensive/2019/10/08/a86d3096-e93a-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html

Why is he so interested in political suicide?

Headshot

Overheal wrote: »

Turkey rejects Trump’s twitter threats about obliterating Turkey’s economy and says military strikes against US-allied Kurds are imminent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/turkey-rejectstrumps-threats-amid-conflicting-us-signals-over-syria-offensive/2019/10/08/a86d3096-e93a-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html

Why is he so interested in political suicide?

Because he's best friend in Russia is pulling the strings.

ToBeFrank123

All his actions in the last week or so point to a very unstable personality, from seeking help from the Chinese to smear Biden, stabbing the Kurds in the back and then threathening the Turks after first agreeing a deal to pull out.

Very inconsistent yet obsessed with appealing to the base. You'd wonder what he'd have to do wrong to upset the base.

dinorebel

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Very inconsistent yet obsessed with appealing to the base. You'd wonder what he'd have to do wrong to upset the base.

Kill someone on 5th Avenue?

check_six

Overheal wrote: »

Why is he so interested in political suicide?

I'd be wondering if he understands the implications of his actions at all. He's been prodded to take a particular policy position, but he doesn't have any interest in or understanding of the probable outcome. He's never had to face any consequences for his actions before so he pays it no mind. I'd doubt that he would link any previous action of his own to a bad outcome for himself. His mind will not countenance or recognise personal failure. He can't even process the idea.

ToBeFrank123

dinorebel wrote: »

Kill someone on 5th Avenue?

Not sure even that would bother them as they probably hate New Yorkers.

Itssoeasy

The White House has informed the democratic leadership in congress that they will not cooperate with the impeachment inquiry. Well there we go. Trump and the White House have basically done what Nixon would have been charged with had his impeachment gone through. The House of Representatives did approve articles of impeachment including the third one which read in part.

In his conduct of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, contrary to his oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has failed without lawful cause or excuse to produce papers and things as directed by duly authorized subpoenas issued by the Committee on the Judiciary of the House of Representatives on April 11, 1974, May 15, 1974, May 30, 1974, and June 24, 1974, and willfully disobeyed such subpoenas. The subpoenaed papers and things were deemed necessary by the Committee in order to resolve by direct evidence fundamental, factual questions relating to Presidential direction, knowledge or approval of actions demonstrated by other evidence to be substantial grounds for impeachment of the President. In refusing to produce these papers and things Richard M. Nixon, substituting his judgment as to what materials were necessary for the inquiry, interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, thereby assuming to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the sole power of impeachment vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives.

namloc1980

Trump confessing to obstruction of Congress on Twitter. It's like a parody

StringerBell

Because it's not a court of law, it's a court of public opinion. It's what he does. The walls are closing in, of that there is no doubt but the tactic won't change either way. Just get him out in 2020 please.

robindch

everlast75 wrote: »

The guy is a complete and utter imbecile.

Yes, the guy's as dumb as a rock - likely mental age of perhaps ten to twelve, judging from his verbal output - but he has issues related to his mental health as well - sociopathy and pathological narcissism seem as likely as any others.

robindch

Manic Moran wrote: »

We need to stop saying we're going to back people up unless we are truly willing to back people up. We can learn from the Russians on this one.

I'm sure my friends in Kyiv would be happy to help you out with this particular falsity.

aloyisious

Don understands his actual GOP and other voter support base will stay with him as long as he stands on the W/H lawn giving a "virtual" finger to the Dems and his critics. That's his re-election policy. It's just unfortunate for the average US voter from both parties that Don is in a position of wealth and privilege that he can afford to be a rebel without a cause, following on from his sinking in the swamp. A signal change in the Washington power position will be indicated when some-one of Grahams power-stature votes or abstains against Don in the senate on a proposal from Pelosi. Don may have created the perfect storm which will destroy him there. It'll be proven if he has to do a U-turn on Syria. The Europeans may have a part in that as he's personally linked them with it.

As for Don's "we won't keep ISIS prisoners in Guantanamo" I'm all ears on where he got that notion from, where did it come from?

Water John

What happens when the Turks invade North Syria, which may be happening already, and the GOP conservatives are very upset?