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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI
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everlast75 wrote: »Sounds to me like Putin is cashing in his chips. He's getting Don to do as much as he can, while he can. Work to discredit the report and also force Ukraine to make peace with Russia, get those sanctions lifted. Meanwhile, sort Syria out by withdrawing troops. Cause discord in America politics, and sure if the deficit is ballooning all the better. Get NATO to fracture, the G7 too.
Not much left on Russia's to do list.
That sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory you just trotted out...except for the increbible fact that it is completely believable. World has gone mad.0 -
Nikki Haley apparently isn't in awe of the great and unmatchedly wise one as perhaps she led us all to believe. She's condemned the abandoning of the Kurds: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/07/politics/nikki-haley-donald-trump-syria-troops-brett-mcgurk/index.html
Her tweet: https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1181191973367160834?s=20
Actually, I think that comment misunderstands Nikki Haley's persona and actions while she was Trump's representative to the U.N.
Nikki is a Republican. She has always portrayed herself in a professional manner. She was a representative of the United States at the U.N. who had to navigate the dreadfully dysfunctional State Dept lack of joined- up thinking and totally incoherent foreign policy. In that context, I believe that she did as good a job as anyone could possibly have done!
I am very well disposed to Nikki who is one of the few Rep politicians who has acted with integrity and professionalism, despite the marching orders under which she must operate. That she has more balls to speak up now, against Trump's betrayal of the Kurds, while most of the men in the political ascendancy choose to equivocate, heightens my appreciation of her.
I can think of no more grevious challenge to the Administration than her tweet's comment "Leaving them to die is a big mistake". Answer that one, Mr President!0 -
everlast75 wrote: »Sounds to me like Putin is cashing in his chips. He's getting Don to do as much as he can, while he can. Work to discredit the report and also force Ukraine to make peace with Russia, get those sanctions lifted. Meanwhile, sort Syria out by withdrawing troops. Cause discord in America politics, and sure if the deficit is ballooning all the better. Get NATO to fracture, the G7 too.
Not much left on Russia's to do list.
If Syria chooses to oppose a Turkish invasion into its territory, it may have the assistance of Iran. I'm not sure that Don took that factor into consideration when he made his non-intervention move public.0 -
Timestamped at first question re:Syria.
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So lads not much time these days to get into all the trump lies and point scoring.
Is he getting impeached or what? Was it a load of baloney? Could you tell the truth and not make up all sorts of speculation. I’m finding trump news very hard to follow any more because everyone just makes up their own stuff.0 -
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Not correct, a lot of people don't follow Trump's lead and make up stuff, all the time. Pick validated sources and ignore the noise.0
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Outlaw Pete wrote: »Timestamped at first question re:Syria.
Pete, I'm not sure if you're scratching your head but I am.0 -
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Today has been another level of madness from this administration and that is saying something
https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1181322726843265026
Looks like he’s being ordered to rat**** the place as much as he can before he gets kicked out0 -
Nikki Haley apparently isn't in awe of the great and unmatchedly wise one as perhaps she led us all to believe. She's condemned the abandoning of the Kurds: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/07/politics/nikki-haley-donald-trump-syria-troops-brett-mcgurk/index.html
Her tweet: https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1181191973367160834?s=20
The US was never particularly vested in the Kurds in Syria, or anyone else in Syria. We said we'd help them out when it looked like things were going to be easy, and then when push came to shove, we chickened out of helping them when things got hard. This decision was made years ago. The US lost in Syria, needs to accept it, be the Kurdish opposition from Assad or Turkey. And, unfortunately, the Kurds and everyone else the US said they were going to help out needs to accept it.
There's feck-all that the US can do to help the Kurds in Syria except wave their finger scoldingly at Turkey and maybe truck them to Iraq. It's all very well saying "We should not leave our allies", but the bottom line is that there's a time where you have to fish or cut bait. The US, for whatever reason, has commonly chosen to cut bait, because we sure as hell don't want to fish. They did it in Iraq 1991 and the Kurds suffered, they did it in Syria some time ago with the anti-Assad forces, and now the Kurds in Syria. We need to stop saying we're going to back people up unless we are truly willing to back people up. We can learn from the Russians on this one.0 -
Manic Moran wrote: »Nikki Haley apparently isn't in awe of the great and unmatchedly wise one as perhaps she led us all to believe. She's condemned the abandoning of the Kurds: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/07/politics/nikki-haley-donald-trump-syria-troops-brett-mcgurk/index.html
Her tweet: https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1181191973367160834?s=20
The US was never particularly vested in the Kurds in Syria, or anyone else in Syria. We said we'd help them out when it looked like things were going to be easy, and then when push came to shove, we chickened out of helping them when things got hard. This decision was made years ago. The US lost in Syria, needs to accept it, be the Kurdish opposition from Assad or Turkey. And, unfortunately, the Kurds and everyone else the US said they were going to help out needs to accept it.
There's feck-all that the US can do to help the Kurds in Syria except wave their finger scoldingly at Turkey and maybe truck them to Iraq. It's all very well saying "We should not leave our allies", but the bottom line is that there's a time where you have to fish or cut bait. The US, for whatever reason, has commonly chosen to cut bait, because we sure as hell don't want to fish. They did it in Iraq 1991 and the Kurds suffered, they did it in Syria some time ago with the anti-Assad forces, and now the Kurds in Syria. We need to stop saying we're going to back people up unless we are truly willing to back people up. We can learn from the Russians on this one.
The bottom line then is: if you ever find yourself in a war that happens to have the USA on your side (while it suits its interests), don't EVER trust ANY assurances or pronouncements that the US gives you. .. simply extract as many billions of dollars as you can possibly get and paddle your own canoe...
Amazing then that, when the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan played by those rules, they were excoriated for disloyalty to their CIA paymasters when they switched sides.....
WTF can the US expect if that's the attitude that underpins it's commitment to 'foreign' allies... Mind you, this is not simply a Trump construct! I recall the manner in which the Marsh Arabs were betrayed by US assurances back in 1991 post-Iraq War 1, when they were ginned up by US assurances and then left to be slaughtered by Saddam's forces who were allowed to use helicopters to annihilate them despite a so-called 'no-fly zone' having been put in place by the so-called "coalition forces"- basically US-led puppet armies used simply to deal with Wahabbi rejection of infidels on sacred Saudi soil...
Pathetic!0 -
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Today has been another level of madness from this administration and that is saying something
https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1181322726843265026
Looks like he’s being ordered to rat**** the place as much as he can before he gets kicked out
Designed to put pressure on Ukraine over other stuff?0 -
beggars_bush wrote: »Designed to put pressure on Ukraine over other stuff?
It's basically part of a 'scorched earth policy'.. Trump will burn the whole house down to protect and deflect from himself.
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That might make sense.beggars_bush wrote: »Designed to put pressure on Ukraine over other stuff?
They must be paying attention but may wonder whether any action or inaction of theirs will have any influence on the reliability of their US "partners" .0 -
TomOnBoard wrote: »Actually, I think that comment misunderstands Nikki Haley's persona and actions while she was Trump's representative to the U.N.
Nikki is a Republican. She has always portrayed herself in a professional manner. She was a representative of the United States at the U.N. who had to navigate the dreadfully dysfunctional State Dept lack of joined- up thinking and totally incoherent foreign policy. In that context, I believe that she did as good a job as anyone could possibly have done!
I am very well disposed to Nikki who is one of the few Rep politicians who has acted with integrity and professionalism, despite the marching orders under which she must operate. That she has more balls to speak up now, against Trump's betrayal of the Kurds, while most of the men in the political ascendancy choose to equivocate, heightens my appreciation of her.
I can think of no more grevious challenge to the Administration than her tweet's comment "Leaving them to die is a big mistake". Answer that one, Mr President!
Hailey is very slick, but she is a hawk and not a politician that deserves any kudos. She represents that horror element of conservatism that Trump somehow managed to give life to e.g Boot, Kristol who believe that America should be the policeman of the world.
https://theintercept.com/2018/10/11/nikki-haley-resigns-un-ambassador/
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/10/nikki-haley-resignation-un-john-bolton-war
Noted far right sites there for anyone in doubt of her.
Palestine might be even more ****ed if she gets in charge somehow which is kind of impressive considering how much Trump is in the pocket of Benji.
Obviously their is an element of both sides who want forever war, but Trump hasn't really handled it well. Amash who is very much in the Ron Paul style of isolationism made the point this is merely moving things around rather than ending involvement in Syria seriously.
I see this been overturned as seems to be outrage from both sides which for once is justified considering how ****ed the Kurds will be.0 -
Today has been another level of madness from this administration and that is saying something
https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1181322726843265026
Looks like he’s being ordered to rat**** the place as much as he can before he gets kicked out
Now.
Who could possibly benefit from this.
Who... What country on the edge of Europe would benefit from this.
Hmmm0 -
I've had it in mind for some time now that where it come's to US troops on the ground abroad, Don doesn't agree with that idea in so far as he doesn't want them dying for another country's national and/or fiscal interests. I see him as an isolationist who has no problem with other countries buying and using US armaments abroad as long as his people don't get killed in the process. I'm more and more convinced that Don, being of European descent, has a horror of direct US involvement in such efforts. I believe he simply has a crass way of showing his feeling as displayed in his tweets and speaking which makes him visually bad, and worse as a strange person, shown by the recording made of his attempt to console the widow of a US serviceman. He is incorrigible where those faults are concerned.
I wish/think he should get back to using the backbone of the US public service, its civil servants, in respect to communicating his orders to people who work for the US, and stop communicating directly to the people he has doing the jobs on the ground. His version of short succinct orders suck and derail the needed groundwork of people on the ground. Over and above that, I didn't way back think he was temperamentally fit to hold the office of president and still don't. Foreign heads of Govt and adventurist speculators can twist him around their perceived national interests like a toy doll. He should have stuck to business pure and simple.0 -
So lads not much time these days to get into all the trump lies and point scoring.
Is he getting impeached or what? Was it a load of baloney? Could you tell the truth and not make up all sorts of speculation. I’m finding trump news very hard to follow any more because everyone just makes up their own stuff.
From my understanding of it, Impeachment investigations have begun, but not an impeachment itself. It gives House committees greater powers to subpeona evidence and witnesses to investigate if a vote on impeachment is justified. If the House votes on it (which given that the Dems have a majority is likely), it would then go to the Senate. Trump is only impeached if the Senate votes for it, which given that the GOP have a majority, is possible but unlikely.
It would really depend on how much evidence the House committees gather in their investigations and really whether or not the GOP feel it's in their best interests to stick with Trump or get rid of him. If there's enough evidence against him, the GOP might feel it's best to impeach him in the hopes and knowledge they might lose the next Presidential election but might be able to retain the Senate, and just work on blocking the next Dem President for a few years.
In terms of whether or not it's a load of baloney or whatever, it's hard for any of us to truly tell. It depends a lot on the minutiae of details and laws regarding same. On the face of it and by most commentators, even some on the Republican side, it would seem the actions of the administration in many aspects was against standard rules and procedures. Whether that was done to conceal greater offences remains to be seen, as does how well any of it could be proven. But given how some top Dems and particularly Pelosi was very reluctant to start impeachment proceedings even with everything Trump did before, or was believed to have done, the fact that they have now begun impeachment proceedings means they believe there's enough there to warrant it and to make it stick.0 -
Nikki Haley apparently isn't in awe of the great and unmatchedly wise one as perhaps she led us all to believe. She's condemned the abandoning of the Kurds: https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/07/politics/nikki-haley-donald-trump-syria-troops-brett-mcgurk/index.html
Her tweet: https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1181191973367160834?s=20
Nikki should change her hashtag thingy from #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend to something like #IDontHave2TrumpTowersInTurkey
then she might understand the situation better.0 -
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1181310151254532098?s=20
I'm honestly running out of superlatives.
The guy is a complete and utter imbecile.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1181310151254532098?s=20
I'm honestly running out of superlatives.
The guy is a complete and utter imbecile.
I have seen it suggested on Twitter that the "No Ammunition" line may have been from a general trying to talk Trump out of invading Mexico or New Jersey or wherever the voices from his TV were telling him to do that day.0 -
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everlast75 wrote: »https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1181310151254532098?s=20
I'm honestly running out of superlatives.
The guy is a complete and utter imbecile.
You're saying that for nearly three years. He hasn't done too badly for a guy who was given three months at best by some commentators here.0 -
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Public Service Announcement: remember, Donald Trump claimed he knew more about ISIS than the generals. When it comes to matters military, never let it be forgotten that this draft-dodging blowhard came out with that boast. His ignorance is spectacular, but consistent.
If anyone here, or in the Military Forum, came out with something that arrogantly prideful, they'd be rightly laughed at, or carded for trolling. Lord knows what these Generals make of the man in private; again it'll be another set of "tell all" books for the Bestseller Lists come his passing.0 -
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everlast75 wrote: »https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1181310151254532098?s=20
I'm honestly running out of superlatives.
The guy is a complete and utter imbecile.
He's said this rubbish before and, I'm sure, some aide or general has tried to get it through to his thick skull that the largest army the world has ever known wasn't fighting numerous wars with no ammunition while the black guy was president, but it just doesn't register.0 -
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You're saying that for nearly three years. He hasn't done too badly for a guy who was given three months at best by some commentators here.
He has achieved none of the things he loudly promised in his campaign; has eroded the standing of the US with even its strongest allies; failed to handle a number of domestic natural disasters; and has torn up a bunch of international treaties that endanger and will destabilise the world (the Open Skies Treaty, the Nuclear Armament Treaty with Russia, the agreement with Iran, removing troops from Syria, Paris Accord, etc. etc). All this while acting with unearned braggadocio and empty superlatives that he's doing an amazing job. Man's out of his depth and flailing.0 -
The Kurds have been treated badly not just by the US but the West in general. If it wasn't for them ISIS would still rule the roost in the region.0
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He has achieved none of the things he loudly promised in his campaign; has eroded the standing of the US with even its strongest allies; failed to handle a number of domestic natural disasters; and has torn up a bunch of international treaties that endanger and will destabilise the world (the Open Skies Treaty, the Nuclear Armament Treaty with Russia, the agreement with Iran, removing troops from Syria, Paris Accord, etc. etc). All this while acting with unearned braggadocio and empty superlatives that he's doing an amazing job. Man's out of his depth and flailing.
And he's still there and the world is still turning. Suck it up and change the record.0 -
Have read of this and tell me, are these the words of a person in full control of their faculties...
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-briefing-military-leaders/
Cabinet Room
6:15 P.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Well, thank you very much, everybody. This is a group gathering of very talented people. And somebody was saying before, I think Mark Esper, our new Secretary of Defense — and, by the way, congratulations.
SECRETARY ESPER: Thank you, sir.
THE PRESIDENT: Congratulations on really having done already a really great job. But you were saying this is the first group where just about everybody — they’re appointed by Trump. And that’s good. That’s good. Just about everybody. So we have the people that we want. We’re very happy with them.
Our military is in great shape. I want to — in particular, I want to congratulate Mark for new — the new boss, right? You’re the new boss. And it’s some somebody that’s respected by everybody in this room and respected by just about everybody outside of this room, I can tell you. So, Joint Chiefs of Staff. The head is — that’s — it doesn’t get any bigger in your world.
But we are having a meeting tonight. We have a meeting now, and then we’re going to the White House and we’re going to have dinner with the wives and families. And we’re going to have some very interesting conversation.
Things are going very well with our military. We’ve spent $2.5 trillion since I’ve been President, and rebuilt our military. When I came in, we were low on ammunition and, as you know, we had jets that didn’t work too well. We had a lot of — a lot of old planes, and we have now, beautiful new planes, or certainly we have a lot of them coming, but we have a lot of them right now in stock.
And we’re — we’re doing things I think that nobody thought was possible. We have had extraordinary relationships with a lot of our allies and, I would say, good relationships with others. But we want fairness, we want — we want to be treated respectfully. We help a lot of nations, and they are not — they’re not sometimes there for us. So we want to help the ones that — that we want, and we want to help the ones that deserve the help. And I think we’ve discussed this at length, all of us. Perhaps there’ll be some changes made, and perhaps not. But we have to be respected as a nation.
A lot of things are changing. You have some very, very wealthy nations, extremely wealthy nations, where we take care of their military and we take care of their military needs. Nobody can do it better than us. But we are really not being reimbursed for what we’re doing.
And we’re having some very nice talks, very friendly talks. And for the most part, I would say, without exception, people are coming through and they’re saying, “You know, we have to help out also.”
So a lot of very exciting things are happening with our military. We have a great team. This is our team right here. They’re some of the best leaders in the world. I think they’re probably the best leaders in the world. We have the greatest men, we have the greatest women, and we have the greatest equipment. Nobody makes it like we do.
So I just want to thank you all. We’ll have a discussion. Then we’re going to go over and have dinner at the White House. And thank you all very much for being here. Appreciate it.
Q Mr. President, are you confident that — are you confident that these gentlemen — I guess, mostly who are sitting around you — believe what you’re doing in Syria is the best idea at this point?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we’ve been in Syria for a long time.
And it was supposed to be a very short hit, and — hit on ISIS. But it didn’t work out that way. They never left. And they’ve been there for many, many years. And we are — we were down to very few soldiers in Syria. We had 50 in the region that you’re talking about — 50 soldiers — and they’ve been already moved out.
But we’ll see what happens with respect to a lot of different things. We’ve told Turkey — I spoke with President Erdoğan of Turkey, and I said, “Got to treat them good, and you got to take care of ISIS.” Don’t forget, we’ve captured — we defeated — this group, largely — defeated ISIS. One hundred percent of the caliphate. One hundred percent. And we wanted to do 100 percent. I was going to do this nine months ago, and we were not at 100 percent, but we were pretty close. Everyone said, “Can we get to 100 percent?” Now I get to 100 percent, and they say, “Well, maybe we could stay longer.” I say, “Well, when do we get out?” There’s got to be a time we get out. We have to bring our people back home.
And frankly, our great soldiers have been talking about this on the campaign. You go back three years ago and more, and you watch the speeches. We want to bring our soldiers back home. These are the endless wars.
And we’re not fighting; we’re policing, to a large extent. We’re policing in certain areas. We’re not police, we’re — these are fighters, great fighters; the greatest in the world. And that’s what they do.
So I’ve told President Erdoğan — I hope he’s going to treat everybody with great respect. You have to understand, they’ve been fighting various of the people that we were working with, and they — Turkey has been fighting them for many years. Somebody said hundreds of years. You had just mentioned to me yesterday, 200 years, maybe more.
At some point, we have to bring our people back home. And that’s what we’re doing. That’s what we’re doing.
Q Is it a firm decision, sir?
THE PRESIDENT: It’s always a firm decision. Last time I made a firm decision, but — and I said, “We’ll do it over a period of time.” We’ve been doing this, actually, over a period of time — over a very long period of time. And we’ve been working with the people in this room, and our soldiers have been coming back over that period of time.
I think that one of the very big factors when we defeated ISIS — we have thousands right now, of ISIS fighters and families. We have family members, wives, children. And many of them come out of Europe, they come out of Germany, they come out of France and other countries of Europe, and I told them, “You have to take these people back.” You have to take them back, give them trials, do whatever you have to do. And they said, “No, we don’t want to do that. I said, “Well, you have to do that.” That’s not fair to the American taxpayers. It’s not fair to America. It’s not fair to the United States not to do that. But they chose not to do it. I said, “Again, you got to take them back.” We can’t take care of sixty, seventy thousand people.
And we’re not going to move the fighters to Guantanamo Bay and take care of them for many, many years into the future. It’s not for us. We did you a great service, a great favor. We defeated the caliphate 100 percent, and now it’s time for Germany and France, and all of the nations where they came from, to take them back. And they chose no. And maybe they’ll — maybe they’re going to change their tune now. I don’t know.
But in the meantime, we’ll have to rely on the European nations. We’ll have to rely on various other nations — as an example, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Russia, and some other nations — to take care of these fighters. But the American taxpayer is not going to spend 50 years of paying tax, or whatever it may be that they’re — wherever they may be, for instance, Guantanamo, or, for instance, prisons in the United States. The American taxpayer won’t put up with that.
Q Mr. President, are you concerned with what the second whistleblower may reveal about your conversation with Ukraine?
THE PRESIDENT: Not at all, because the call was a perfect call. You had stenographers, you had people that took it down exactly. It was a perfect call. It’s just a scam. This is a scam by the Democrats to try and win an election that they’re not going to win in 2020.
All you have to do is take a look at the polls, see what happened. One poll had me up 12 points, 16 points, or 17 points.
We — just take a look at what’s going on. The people understand it’s a scam. They’re trying to win an election in 2020 by using impeachment. If you look at that call, it’s a perfect call. It’s congenial. There was no pressure. And what did the head of Ukraine say? What did the head — did he say there was no pressure? Did his person say — his top representative, his foreign minister, say there was no pressure whatsoever. There was no pressure put on him. This is a scam. This is one of the greatest scams we —
Look, we beat you on the — we won on the Mueller scam. That was a whole big deal. That lasted for two and a half years. We had a few days of peace and then, all of a sudden, they came up with this one. But I guess it’s just part of my life. This is the most ridiculous thing many people have ever seen. All you have to do is read. All you have to do is read what they wrote down, the stenographers. They wrote down an exact call.
Now, what happened is Schiff, Adam Schiff, went up before Congress, and he read the most horrible speech, attributed the speech to me. These people won’t believe this one. If you went to Annapolis, West Point, or the Air Force Academy, you’re not going to believe this one happened. He went up, and he took a speech, and he made it up. It was horrible. And he said, “The President of the United States said this on the call.” It’s a fraud. He real- — I mean, it’s a fraudulent speech. What he did is incredible. And it shouldn’t be allowed. And I don’t think it’s going to be allowed. I think a lot of things are happening.
By the way, Nancy Pelosi knew it was a fraud, and she didn’t say anything about it. But if you look at the call — you just take a look at that call — that call is a very — a terrific call. It’s congenial, there was no pressure, there was no anything. And you know it, and so do I, and so does everybody else. And that’s why the polls are doing well. That’s why — I don’t bring up fundraising, but that’s why, I believe, in the history of the Republican Party at this time, they’ve never had anything like the numbers that have been raised. They raised $13 million in many small donations in a 24-hour period. That hasn’t even happened.
So, people understand that it’s a fraud. It’s a scam. It’s a witch hunt. And all we do is just keep fighting for the American people, because that’s all I do.
We win. Our economy is doing great. Our jobs numbers are the best they’ve ever been. Just about the best they’ve ever been for many groups: African Americans, Asians, Hispanics. They’re the best they’ve ever been in the history of our country. And overall, they’re the best numbers in 51 years.
So, we’re doing great things and we’re going to keep going. Thank you very much.
END
6:25 P.M. EDT0 -
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And he's still there and the world is still turning. Suck it up and change the record.
Glib. You were the one who claimed he's doing "not a bad job", so don't get smart because - shock - in a thread on Politics about the current US president someone points out that he might be doing a bad job, making decisions that are easy to quantify as 'bad decisions'.
And if you were honest you'd know full well that actions today often trickle down across the years. If you were honest.0
This discussion has been closed.
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