Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

pixelburp

Stallingrad wrote: »

Not for the first time I had to read a news article twice it seemed so bizarre. This time his spat with California and their 'crazy' plans to reduce emissions, backed by auto makers. Yet again trying to roll back Obama-era environmental protections. The man is a monster and history will judge him as one. Utterly insane.

BBC News - Trump strips California of power to set auto emission standards
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49746701

For the party that's big on "States' Rights", the GOP (though let's be honest, this is Trump taking another petty stab at Obama's legacy[*]) always seem happy to stomp on those States when it suits them.

As the BBC article says, this is just going to get tied up in the courts for the next few months, if not years & you'd imagine California has deep enough pockets to fight it. I don't seriously ever think secession is likely in the US, but as politics grows towards the edges, more brazenly socially-liberal states like California may find Washington that bit further away.

Trump, and his obvious lobbyist appointments in the EPA and beyond, are enemies of the environment. You can debate the merits of carbon taxes 'tll your blue in the face, but the core tenets of basic environmental protection and ecosystem preservation are diametrically opposed to those of this current administration. Yet it's saddening just how partisan something as fundamental as "Don't choke the planet beyond sustainability" has become. I know we're not allowed memes or cartoons, but there's a great one that goes around with a Climate Change Denier pleading "what if it's a big hoax and we create a better world for nothing?" during a climate summit.


[*] And for anyone who'd plead otherwise, let me direct to you here to one of my fav. Executive Orders:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/trump-administration-relaxes-financial-penalties-against-nursing-homes/2017/12/31/83dee9fc-ee6b-11e7-95e3-eff284e71c8d_story.html

Where Trump rolled back financial penalties against Nursing Homes that harm, abuse or put residents in danger. We have our own problems with abuse in nursing homes and I'd like to think there's a special place in hell for those that prey on the elderly, but the arguments made by the Nursing Home industry feel ... tenuous. This was, IMO, the action of a man wanting to dismantle every action taken by that Black Man who roasted him at a correspondents dinner.

amandstu

Is it an attempt to divide the country so as to get reelection?

California is a lost cause for him electorally.If he can pit the more climate action friendly states against those rust belt states that helped him win last time ,could that appear to be a winning strategy or tactic for him ?

Yes ,whatever the motivation it is really gut wrenching .

I see that Swedish activist had a good reply to the "what about China" ploy in her press conference.

Stallingrad

amandstu wrote: »

I see that Swedish activist had a good reply to the "what about China" ploy in her press conference.

That was gold, what a kid.

everlast75

amandstu wrote: »

Is it an attempt to divide the country so as to get reelection?

That was his 2016 campaign tactic. It's all he has

serfboard

pixelburp wrote: »

For the party that's big on "States' Rights", the GOP always seem happy to stomp on those States when it suits them.

Yes indeed. Whenever Obama tried to do anything at Federal level that they didn't like they'd cry "States rights! States rights!".

You could apply your statement above to the deficit and the debt: "For the party that's so concerned about the deficit and the debt, the GOP always seem happy to balloon both when it suits them".

They really are the most appalling hypocrites.

serfboard

everlast75 wrote: »

That was his 2016 campaign tactic. It's all he has

There's a great article here about the "Crisis of conservatism". Some quotes:

In Britain and the US ... a deep crisis of conservatism has been building since the end of the Reagan and Thatcher governments. It is a crisis of competence, of intellectual energy and coherence, of electoral effectiveness, and – perhaps most serious of all – of social relevance.
...
In Britain, the Conservatives last won a solid general election majority 32 years ago, in Thatcher’s final landslide victory. The Republicans have won the popular vote only once in the last seven presidential elections: in 2004, in the afterglow of George W Bush’s deceptive early successes in the Afghan and Iraq wars.
...
Since the 90s, Britain and the US have steadily become more urban, multiracial, more connected to other countries, and, in some ways at least, fairer to women. Meanwhile, support for the Tories and the Republicans has grown ever more concentrated in towns and rural areas, and among white men.
...
In 2012, the Republican senator Lindsey Graham summed up conservatism’s problem with modern demographics and social attitudes more bluntly, saying: “We’re not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term.”
...
In this unsettled, disillusioned political environment, conservatives have depended more and more on extraordinary means to win power.
...
Conservative administrations have tried to tilt the electoral process against left-leaning social groups such as the young, the transient and recent immigrants. Registering to vote and voting itself have been made more difficult, with more documents required, despite little evidence of electoral fraud.
...
“What does it say about us as Conservatives,” asks Cooper, “if our only hope for the next generation of voters is that they don’t vote?”

Itssoeasy

Stallingrad wrote: »

That was gold, what a kid.

What did she say ? I know she spoke before a congressional committee but not a press conference.

amandstu

She said that what the Americans say about the Chinese ,the Swedes say about the Americans.

IOW the (=some) Americans argue against climate action on the grounds of futility because Chinese emissions are higher;in Sweden the same argument is made that because America is such a problem there is no point in others taking action.


What she didn't say was that (as we all know) the American is one of the highest per capita emitter of greenhouse gases and the Chinese and the Indians by the same measure emit far ,far less.

The American (and European) economies have benefited by their historic "selling of the family silver" and now wish to blame the newly emerging economies for their supposed out of control use of carbon.

Trump is their perfect poster boy . He is their Greenhouse Slob.

Kermit.de.frog

I'm tellin yeh the guy is a comedian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoJ5Ke9OY9Y

..."it can absorb heat.....you can fry an egg on it..."

Tchaikovsky

They should've had the helicopters roaring during that speech. I see the light bulbs are making him look orange again, also.

Outlaw Pete

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm tellin yeh the guy is a comedian.

Ah, MSNBC trying their best to dampen down what essentially is Trump following through on promises he made during his campaign, but they couldn't just report that of course, nah they had to try and sneer at him on some level.

Given how pedantic Trump haters have been regarding what the wall was to be made of, his comments were clearly him trolling them all.

Few un-scurrilously-edited clips below:


https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1174471259683356673

Even CNN for once didn't ignore Trump doing something positive, or maybe they just wanted to let us know that he didn't leave his trusted sharpie back in the Oval


https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1174522329407401990

serfboard

Stallingrad wrote: »

BBC News - Trump strips California of power to set auto emission standards
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49746701

The funny thing about this is that this now gives a huge advantage to the Chinese who are investing massively in EVs (and in renewable energy). This is less a concern caused by climate change considerations than it is by a concern regarding pollution in their cities, and also making them less dependent on imported fossil fuels.

And they are going to force foreign automakers to adhere to their standards too. With that in mind, Tesla is building a huge new factory in Shanghai.

The upshot of this could be that American automakers will be building cleaner cars in China than in the US.

StringerBell

Is it enough to simply respond, that's wrong?

everlast75

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

maybe they just wanted to let us know that he didn't leave his trusted sharpie back in the Oval

Ah yes, lol indeed. Let's have a joke about the completely idiotic, juvenile and embarrassingly cringeworthy behaviour of an actual President in trying to cover up his stupid mistake which caused thousands of people to panic and how he dragged it in for about 5 days and people were threatened with being fired.

Isn't he such a cad?

everlast75

Trump has sued to stop the release of his state tax returns.


*rummages in bag*....
now where's that tweet...
*rummage*

ah, here it is!


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/263726211296010240?s=19

Quin_Dub

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Ah, MSNBC trying their best to dampen down what essentially is Trump following through on promises he made during his campaign, but they couldn't just report that of course, nah they had to try and sneer at him on some level.

Given how pedantic Trump haters have been regarding what the wall was to be made of, his comments were clearly him trolling them all.

Few un-scurrilously-edited clips below:


Even CNN for once didn't ignore Trump doing something positive, or maybe they just wanted to let us know that he didn't leave his trusted sharpie back in the Oval

Except it's not new wall though , it's replacing existing wall.

Almost 3 years in and they still haven't built a single foot of NEW wall.

I'm pretty sure his promise wasn't "I'll repair the existing wall that Bush and Obama built with money stolen from the budget to build schools for Veterans children"

Stallingrad

serfboard wrote: »

The funny thing about this is that this now gives a huge advantage to the Chinese who are investing massively in EVs (and in renewable energy). This is less a concern caused by climate change considerations than it is by a concern regarding pollution in their cities, and also making them less dependent on imported fossil fuels.

And they are going to force foreign automakers to adhere to their standards too. With that in mind, Tesla is building a huge new factory in Shanghai.

The upshot of this could be that American automakers will be building cleaner cars in China than in the US.

Watch the excellent Netflix documentary American Factory. A fascinating clash of cultures but the Chinese look leagues ahead of the US with their ruthless work ethic and productivity. The US work force look mesmerized and bewildered by it all. The US (bar Tesla) and Europeans are will be crucified by the Chinese auto makers unless they up their game. Then you have Trump bleating on about clean coal, rowing back on anything innovative, and it's hard no to feel the US is dying superpower.

TomOnBoard

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Except it's not new wall though , it's replacing existing wall.

Almost 3 years in and they still haven't built a single foot of NEW wall.

I'm pretty sure his promise wasn't "I'll repair the existing wall that Bush and Obama built with money stolen from the budget to build schools for Veterans children"

" AND WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR THE WALL??

MEXICO'S GONNA PAY FOR THE WALL!!! ""

An idiotic promise made by an idiotic candidate who became POTUS through an idiotic system, now being re-cast in an idiotic manner because the original promise was just a great big lie! I wonder is that lie included in the 12,069 and counting?

And the usual chief apologist's focus is on Sharpies!!! FFS!!

Itssoeasy

I find it funny that his VP mike pence did release ten years of his tax returns before the election in 2016(if a bit later than the campaign said) but trump is terrified to do it and will sue to stop them being released. I mean if there is nothing to hide then what's the problem ?

EltonJohn69

What ever this promise Trump made to this phantom world leader could be serious I think, if there is an actual undeniable record of it. The story will roll all weekend I think... trump will tweet like crazy as the story develops..... while his tax returns get ever closer to being revealed......a lot of pressure on a man with a mind that is deteriorating rapidly....

everlast75

Can we add this to the list of impeachable offences?

https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/1174737428474716160?s=19

EltonJohn69

Are the phone calls the president makes recorded ? is there a record ?

Itssoeasy

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Are the phone calls the president makes recorded ? is there a record ?

I believe there are transcripts made of presidential communications which I think is by law. The Trump administration it seems have limited the people who can(not that they all need to know) see them.

derossi

It's good to know though, as a bad hombre that wants to take drugs over the border....before we build a tunnel I need to know details about the wall. No hassle, let me just check Trumps statement. OK, its hardened steel and has sensors. If we try to cut it they will know. If you go 4 foot tunnel you wont get through. 5000 lbs of concrete. Ok he said 7 odd foot so lets go 9 foot below and see what happens. Great we didnt waste all this money with our first idea or tunnel.

TomOnBoard

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

What ever this promise Trump made to this phantom world leader could be serious I think, if there is an actual undeniable record of it. The story will roll all weekend I think... trump will tweet like crazy as the story develops..... while his tax returns get ever closer to being revealed......a lot of pressure on a man with a mind that is deteriorating rapidly....

Reports are suggesting that he told Ukrainian leader that relations with US would improve if Ukraine launched an investigation into Biden. This follows the attempts by Giuliani to do that previously.

EltonJohn69

If there is a recording of this conversation and cnn get hold of it, I think it would bring Trump down. The conversation would be played 24/7

Itssoeasy

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

If there is a recording of this conversation and cnn get hold of it, I think it would bring Trump down. The conversation would be played 24/7

As I said from what I've heard people in the know on this stuff theyve said there is a transcript of them, but you'd wonder how they'd make a transcript without a recording but they'd hardly get a low level staffer to transcribe a conversation between the president and whoever he's talking to given there could be sensitive/ classified info on it. Also, if it was leaked to CNN or whoever, then the Trump administration wouldn't have to look that far as the people with clearance to see those transcripts can't be that long.

Itssoeasy

TomOnBoard wrote: »

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

What ever this promise Trump made to this phantom world leader could be serious I think, if there is an actual undeniable record of it. The story will roll all weekend I think... trump will tweet like crazy as the story develops..... while his tax returns get ever closer to being revealed......a lot of pressure on a man with a mind that is deteriorating rapidly....

Reports are suggesting that he told Ukrainian leader that relations with US would improve if Ukraine launched an investigation into Biden. This follows the attempts by Giuliani to do that previously.

The Ukrainians didn't though did they ? Launch an investigation I mean.

TomOnBoard

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Ukrainians didn't though did they ? Launch an investigation I mean.

Don't know! How would we know? You can be sure that if they did launch such an investigation, there'll be nothing said until it's found whatever 'dirt' has been requested..

TomOnBoard

Stallingrad wrote: »

serfboard wrote: »

The funny thing about this is that this now gives a huge advantage to the Chinese who are investing massively in EVs (and in renewable energy). This is less a concern caused by climate change considerations than it is by a concern regarding pollution in their cities, and also making them less dependent on imported fossil fuels.

And they are going to force foreign automakers to adhere to their standards too. With that in mind, Tesla is building a huge new factory in Shanghai.

The upshot of this could be that American automakers will be building cleaner cars in China than in the US.

Watch the excellent Netflix documentary American Factory. A fascinating clash of cultures but the Chinese look leagues ahead of the US with their ruthless work ethic and productivity. The US work force look mesmerized and bewildered by it all. The US (bar Tesla) and Europeans are will be crucified by the Chinese auto makers unless they up their game. Then you have Trump bleating on about clean coal, rowing back on anything innovative, and it's hard no to feel the US is dying superpower.

If you do watch this, bear in mind that this is the first one of the Netflix projects that the Obamas' production company made and is (together with book deals) annoying The Donald so much that he wants all investigations on him stopped and investigation efforts placed on Obama instead...