Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Christy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have no idea what is in it for Iran either. The Yemenis are the obvious folks with a stake in it. Of course, just because you or I can't see a rationale doesn't mean that there is not one.

I feel like we have to assume Trump is lying without irrefutable evidence.

Believing someone who has lied 10,000+ times without it just seems like a bad idea.

Maybe if we get some more reliable world leaders looking into the issue it might help but right now talk of Iran being involved seems premature with a serious source.

rocksolidfat

rocksolidfat wrote: »

Don't get ahead of yourself too quickly there - in the last two years, 17mn voters have been purged from the US system: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/01/voter-purges-us-elections-brennan-center-report

And that is on top of them point blank refusing to protect their elections despite it being accepted that their last one was meddled with quite severely: https://www.vox.com/2019/5/21/18629428/election-security-mitch-mcconnell-donald-trump-russia

And that is on top of them cancelling their primaries in certain states, despite that apparently being point blank illegal in cases like South Carolina.

And that is on top of states like Georgia having good-as-definitely rigged recent elections in the last few years, with the governor demanding over 300,000 people be purged leading up to his own election campaign: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/brian-kemp-340000-voters-748165/

And then deleting all data on that election when sued on it, which would have forced him to disclose: https://slate.com/technology/2017/10/georgia-destroyed-election-data-right-after-a-lawsuit-alleged-the-system-was-vulnerable.html?via=gdpr-consent

And using the census to rig and gerrymander elections based on race, in order for the results to be "advantageous to Republicans and non-white Hispanics" (what an ...odd... choice of words!): https://thinkprogress.org/thomas-hofeller-trump-census-racist-rigging-5ab9f81864bd/

And on top of that, we have election officials literally just throwing absentee ballots in the bin as if they were in Russia or someth.... oh wait a minute!! https://www.salon.com/2018/10/18/georgia-county-election-official-sued-for-throwing-out-black-voters-absentee-ballots/

And then you have other cases where the GOP politicians are literally having their staff illegally try to intercept absentee ballots to throw out, otherwise known as election fraud (something I thought the Republicans were super-duper against?): https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/698265649/n-c-republican-at-center-of-election-fraud-case-wont-run-in-special-election?t=1567966982850

And the guy who did that, then lied in his testimony in court and got away with it, despite even publicly admitting to lying under oath.

The sad truth is, at this rate the 2020 election might have already been decided months ago, with the misinformation this time around being little more than window dressing. What will be interesting is to see how much the same people who were so upset about the Democrat primaries in 2016 care this time... my guess is exactly zero.

Another week, another 150,000 Americans with their right to vote secretly and likely illegally stripped from them - https://www.salon.com/2019/09/17/kentucky-democrats-say-state-improperly-deactivated-150000-voters-weeks-before-election/

More than 150,000 Kentucky voters were improperly placed on an “inactive list” in a closed-door meeting less than two months before the state’s gubernatorial election, the state’s Democratic Party said on Monday.

Democratic chairman Ben Self said in a letter to the state’s Board of Elections that the board must reactivate the registrations after the move jeopardized their right to vote in the upcoming election for governor, attorney general and other statewide offices. According to an internal Democratic poll, Republican Gov. Matt Bevin and other statewide Republican candidates are trailing in their races.

"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
- Long time GOP staffer and former Bush Jr. speechwriter David Frum.

everlast75

Christy42 wrote: »

I feel like we have to assume Trump is lying without irrefutable evidence.

Believing someone who has lied 10,000+ times without it just seems like a bad idea.

Maybe if we get some more reliable world leaders looking into the issue it might help but right now talk of Iran being involved seems premature with a serious source.

Can't take the Saudi's word for it either, considering they butchered a journalist and then lied to the world about it.

Further reasons as to why Trump might believe them over facts is they own a complete floor in Trump Tower....

everlast75

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I'm really struggling to understand what that hearing achieved today, other than perhaps loud guffaws in the White House and among the Base... and that's down to Nadler and the Majority. Maybe I'm simply not seeing some awesome 5-dimensional chess game that was being played... However, to my unsophisticated eye, it looked quite farcical and Lewandowski greatly enhanced his standing as 'an enforcer' for Trump, which may help him greatly in a putative Senate bid. Social Media launches suggest that he may actually have launched his Senate election website while on a Bathroom Break from the Committee!!!

Yeah, Drain the Swamp!!! FFS!!! How long are these Sociopathic Narcissists going to get away with this crap!!?

As a Congressional hearing. and the 1st hearing that used the I-word, I was left wondering WTF!!

EDIT: it seems that I missed a number of exchanges later in the day, one of which forced Lewandowski into admitting that he had lied (with no legal.periil) to Ari Melber and has been trying to ingratiate himself with Trump as laid out in his own book. So, perhaps, there was some chess going on, and hopefully Lewandowski (who.came across as a Goombah all day) will at least have been Castled and hopefully Checked...

He's running for Senate, so that's what was in it for CL.

There has to be clear ramifications for lying to or not answering questions to Congress, otherwise there is no point.

The dems better grow some teeth, or their base is going to get mighty pi$$ed...

rossie1977

everlast75 wrote: »

He's running for Senate, so that's what was in it for CL.

There has to be clear ramifications for lying to or not answering questions to Congress, otherwise there is no point.

The dems better grow some teeth, or their base is going to get mighty pi$$ed...

Dems are just too weak. Republicans are playing a completely different game and have been since the 60s.

Brian?

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have no idea what is in it for Iran either. The Yemenis are the obvious folks with a stake in it. Of course, just because you or I can't see a rationale doesn't mean that there is not one.

It would be some irony if this starts a war between the US and Iran, given how much American built ordnance fell on Iran during the Iran-iraq war.

duploelabs

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have no idea what is in it for Iran either. The Yemenis are the obvious folks with a stake in it. Of course, just because you or I can't see a rationale doesn't mean that there is not one.

For someone who's in the military, you'd think you'd have a better understanding of middle-eastern politics. It's a Shia vs. Sunni, with the Yemini (and Iran) being the Shia, and the Saudis being Sunni.
That religious context underpins the majority of the proxy wars within the middle east.
Vox sum it up quite well here

SteveCloony

He is also a proponent of Brexit and has been extremely critical of the EU. Both of which affect us deeply.

aloyisious

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Maybe in future actually read the tweet that's posted before jumping down someone's throat accusing them of posting year-old information.

It was never reported before that Ford’s allies had threatened Leland with a smear campaign let alone some of the other information (which is also in this new book) that further corroborates her story:

Respectfully, that quote from Leland is based on what she heard from a third person/party telling her there allegedly were people planning to defame her because she was declining to say she saw the judge and the victim together at a party and have as much creditability as the parts complained of from the person claiming she was assaulted by the judge, as they are apparently without direct incontrovertible non-third party independent witnesses.

aloyisious

Milosmith wrote: »

President Trump just tweeted that he's "no longer Locked and Loaded"

Good. That might explain one angle in why the US was not sharing the intel or whatever it was basing its assuredness that Iran was the source of the drones with its allies [cue SA and Israel] in the region, as reported on CNN. There may have been nothing definite in the intel as the Pentagon was not saying it was reliable. No one seemed to be able or want to provide a source for it, even a hint of a satellite, sig-int or el-int source or a person on the ground.

everlast75

rossie1977 wrote: »

Dems are just too weak. Republicans are playing a completely different game and have been since the 60s.

I agree.

I understand there were some moments later in which CL was made look like an ignorant fool, but overall, this by Rick Wilson sums up most of what I felt....


1/ This is outrageous contempt. It isn't just that this scumbag Lewandowski is slapping the committee with it.

This is a test, and the Democrats are going to fail it. They're so bad at this it makes me cringe.

2/ How much insult and contempt to do you need? How much obstruction and evasion is enough?

Are you going to let this go? Of course you are.

Trump and the House GOP are playing nuclear hardball and you idiots are at high tea. They're not bound by law or norms.
3/ They're playing to Fox. You're playing to what, exactly?

This guy is in contempt. He has no privilege or immunity. He was always a private citizen.

It's not about Corey. It's about the total inability of the House majority to get down to nut-cutting.

4/ It's about the only line of defense in a threatened democracy being manned by a group of people who don't understand that until you cause Trump's ****heel minions actual pain, with penalties and consequences, they will act with impunity.

5/ Trump's enablers are building a TV drama for their team. That's why Gym, et al tear their hair out, spit, and caper on the stage. They understand this is a *reality show* now.

Do I have to do ALL of this for you?
6/ They've already won the day unless you provide a comparable *show*.

Taking his abuse and contempt and running these anodyne questions is pathetic. It's weak. It's *not exciting television.*

I don't care about the *legality* of "Sargent at arms, take that man into custody."


7/ I care about the *drama* and the visual. He's obviously in contempt.

By letting him escape the consequences of contempt, the House Democrats send the clear signal that ANYONE from the WH can slap them, spit on the floor and say, "F**k you."

8/ This is where the whole "IMPEACH!" crowd falls down.

You think THESE people are going to carry out some deus ex machina impeachment miracle when they can't even handle this bama dip**** Lewandowski?

FFS.

serfboard

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have no idea what is in it for Iran either.

duploelabs wrote: »

For someone who's in the military, you'd think you'd have a better understanding of middle-eastern politics. It's a Shia vs. Sunni, with the Yemini (and Iran) being the Shia, and the Saudis being Sunni.

I presume that you mean to say here that the Houthi rebels are Shia, since the majority of Mulsims in Yemen are, in fact, Sunni. And even if you did mean that, that would still not be totally correct, as there are Sunnis who support the Houthi rebels.

BBC wrote:

The conflict has its roots in the failure of a political transition supposed to bring stability to Yemen following an Arab Spring uprising that forced its longtime authoritarian president, Ali Abdullah Saleh, to hand over power
...
Disillusioned with the transition, many ordinary Yemenis - including Sunnis - supported the Houthis and in late 2014 and early 2015, the rebels took over Sanaa.

Yemen is not a simple Shia Vs Sunni situation.

duploelabs wrote: »

That religious context underpins the majority of the proxy wars within the middle east.

Manics point, I think, is that there is nothing to be gained, and a lot to lose, for Iran by taking on Saudi Arabia directly. Although it may have been Iranian weapons that were used, it is more likely to have been the Houthis themselves who used them.

And who can blame them? According to the UN, 60% of civilian deaths in the war are due to Saudi-led airstrikes. Hitting back at the Saudis, in a way designed to do maximum financial damage, might make them think twice.

Remember, this was oil fields that were attacked. Not Saudi civilian centres.

Dytalus

everlast75 wrote: »

I agree.

I understand there were some moments later in which CL was made look like an ignorant fool, but overall, this by Rick Wilson sums up most of what I felt....
~snip for space~

I'm in total agreement. What's the point of holding these congressional proceedings if the Democrats aren't willing to do what it takes to get their answers and do their jobs.

The "executive privilege" CL was hiding behind is worth less than the lies that came out of his mouth. He's not covered by it. The White House has no basis to demand it. And the Democrats did nothing about it.

Like Wilson said: "Sergeant at Arms, take that man into custody." He's a hostile witness, time to treat him like one.

everlast75

“I have no obligation to be honest with the media.” - Corey Lewandowski

*CNN immediately terminates contract with Corey Lewandowski*

Haha, just kidding..

https://twitter.com/javimorgado/status/1174278781051293697?s=20

WTF are they up to?

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

“I have no obligation to be honest with the media.” - Corey Lewandowski

*CNN immediately terminates contract with Corey Lewandowski*

Haha, just kidding..

https://twitter.com/javimorgado/status/1174278781051293697?s=20

WTF are they up to?

Sadly for all of the media in the US (certainly the TV Media) , ratings and revenue trumps (apologies for the pun) truth, honesty and self-respect.

How else do you explain them continuously having KAC et al on their shows and now Lewandowski...

peddlelies

When an obvious fraud like Avenatti can dominate cable news for months on end you know it's rotten to the core. Like the above post mentions, I include all TV media in that assessment. You had people on NBC and ABC lecturing the public about how awful certain people and pointing their noses down at those same people in interviews, behind the scenes they were sexually assaulting women. Same thing on Fox with O'Reilly lecturing the nation on how morally astute he is and we all know the stories about Roger Ailes.

Manic Moran

duploelabs wrote: »

For someone who's in the military, you'd think you'd have a better understanding of middle-eastern politics. It's a Shia vs. Sunni, with the Yemini (and Iran) being the Shia, and the Saudis being Sunni.
That religious context underpins the majority of the proxy wars within the middle east.
Vox sum it up quite well here

I never said they liked each other. I just don't see what Iran has to gain from launching cruise missiles at a Saudi oil facility. I can see them giving missiles to the Yemenis as part of a proxy war, that's a long-standing tradition various amongst powers. But to hit the oil fields themselves? Are they trying to provoke a conflict? I doubt it. Hurt Saudi economically? Possibly, but to what gain? It won't be enough to force the Saudis out of Yemen. Gain their own position economically? Maybe, the price for their own oil will go up a bit. Then again, the price for remaining Saudi production will go up a bit as well. Launching missiles at a powerful neighbor is a little bit of a risky way to gain a few dollars on the barrel of your exports, or to express disapproval of a military intervention, no?

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

I never said they liked each other. I just don't see what Iran has to gain from launching cruise missiles at a Saudi oil facility. I can see them giving missiles to the Yemenis as part of a proxy war, that's a long-standing tradition various amongst powers. But to hit the oil fields themselves? Are they trying to provoke a conflict? I doubt it. Hurt Saudi economically? Possibly, but to what gain? It won't be enough to force the Saudis out of Yemen. Gain their own position economically? Maybe, the price for their own oil will go up a bit. Then again, the price for remaining Saudi production will go up a bit as well. Launching missiles at a powerful neighbor is a little bit of a risky way to gain a few dollars on the barrel of your exports, or to express disapproval of a military intervention, no?

Whole thing stinks, i dont believe the Saudi's nor the US. none of them can be trusted frankly. There are various groups that would stand to gain out of this least of all the Iranians.

eire4

listermint wrote: »

Whole thing stinks, i dont believe the Saudi's nor the US. none of them can be trusted frankly. There are various groups that would stand to gain out of this least of all the Iranians.

Have to agree with you. I son't trust the US or the Saudi's to be telling the truth at all. They are both about as trustworthy when it comes to the truth as a pizza being left on a low lying table and the dog being left alone in the room with it.

Itssoeasy

I wonder will the feelings towards Israel change slightly if the sitting PM Netanyahu isn't reelected which from what I saw on sky news is the exit poll isn't looking that great. I say feelings and not policy as the US policy on Israel is steadfast but I doubt that Trump would be as chummy with the potential next PM that wouldnt be Netanyahu.

aloyisious

It seems Don has a new NSA whom he likes, a person who has a proven track record as a [hostage freedom] negotiator and was prepared to have a news briefing with him without hassle. Given the praise relative to negotiating [in other words, doing deals with people] the success of the new man will doubtless depend on the freedom Don allots him without White House staffers and Sec State & his staffers trying to upstage hi and call the shots on foreign affairs. I just hope with the present SA/Iran quarrel that his hostage negotiating skills won't be needed. I'm liking the way that Don is not too anxious to start a direct battlefield confrontation, relying instead on proxy [SA] involvement.

IMO, this is directly connected to his firing of Bolton. Don does not want to be the initiator of a US/Iran battlefield confrontation. I'd like to think the Trump family views on military adventurism in Europe may be colouring his decisions. He may actually be an isolationist where it comes to US Govt Pers serving other nations interests, something which the US as a whole may have cause to thank him for in the near and far future.

Stallingrad

Not for the first time I had to read a news article twice it seemed so bizarre. This time his spat with California and their 'crazy' plans to reduce emissions, backed by auto makers. Yet again trying to roll back Obama-era environmental protections. The man is a monster and history will judge him as one. Utterly insane.

BBC News - Trump strips California of power to set auto emission standards
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49746701

Zubeneschamali

Stallingrad wrote: »

Utterly insane.

I don't think that is appropriate language to use for an older man who is clearly suffering from dementia.

frag420

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't think that is appropriate language to use for an older man who is clearly suffering from dementia.

I concur, completely insane is more apt!

frag420

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I don't think that is appropriate language to use for an older man who is clearly suffering from dementia.

I concur, completely insane is more apt!

Christy42

aloyisious wrote: »

It seems Don has a new NSA whom he likes, a person who has a proven track record as a [hostage freedom] negotiator and was prepared to have a news briefing with him without hassle. Given the praise relative to negotiating [in other words, doing deals with people] the success of the new man will doubtless depend on the freedom Don allots him without White House staffers and Sec State & his staffers trying to upstage hi and call the shots on foreign affairs. I just hope with the present SA/Iran quarrel that his hostage negotiating skills won't be needed. I'm liking the way that Don is not too anxious to start a direct battlefield confrontation, relying instead on proxy [SA] involvement.

IMO, this is directly connected to his firing of Bolton. Don does not want to be the initiator of a US/Iran battlefield confrontation. I'd like to think the Trump family views on military adventurism in Europe may be colouring his decisions. He may actually be an isolationist where it comes to US Govt Pers serving other nations interests, something which the US as a whole may have cause to thank him for in the near and far future.

He also hired Bolton knowing full well what Bolton's policies were. Trump has no issue with with war or Fire and Fury.

Don has gotten involved and directly blamed Iran as well. Remember fire and Fury, remember that he has effectively encouraged Iran to get nuclear weapons by cancelling an important deal for peace in the middle East and not renegotiating.

Igotadose

Various outlets reporting a $125 billion injection of cash by the Federal Reserve this week as cash required in the 'repurchasemarket' had dried up. This is the pool banks draw on, for short-term financing and is around $2tn. First time that the Fed has directed cash to it, in 11 years. Analysts aren't sure why it dried up.

Not understanding the details at all, my gut is thinking that this is bad, since it hasn't happened in so long and seems like it's a side-effect of actions taken since the crash, namely the low interest rates and 'quantitative easing,' which has stopped. The notion of the Fed having to suddenly inject a bunch of money is very scary - why wasn't it anticipated?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/fed-repo-injects-billions-into-market-first-time-in-decade-2019-9-1028534289

aloyisious

Igotadose wrote: »

Various outlets reporting a $125 billion injection of cash by the Federal Reserve this week as cash required in the 'repurchasemarket' had dried up. This is the pool banks draw on, for short-term financing and is around $2tn. First time that the Fed has directed cash to it, in 11 years. Analysts aren't sure why it dried up.

Not understanding the details at all, my gut is thinking that this is bad, since it hasn't happened in so long and seems like it's a side-effect of actions taken since the crash, namely the low interest rates and 'quantitative easing,' which has stopped. The notion of the Fed having to suddenly inject a bunch of money is very scary - why wasn't it anticipated?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/fed-repo-injects-billions-into-market-first-time-in-decade-2019-9-1028534289

Is it in any way related to the Admin thoughts on changing the status of the two banks [Pa and Ma] set up by the Fed decades ago to help out banks short on fluidity and making them the same as the average bank? Part of Dons grand design for banking, that Pa and Ma wouldn't be around to do what they were designed to do when banks were at risk of closure due to lack of the readies. Pardon my using the terms Pa and Ma, I can't think of the full street names for the two banks.

Stallingrad

Igotadose wrote: »

The notion of the Fed having to suddenly inject a bunch of money is very scary - why wasn't it anticipated?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/fed-repo-injects-billions-into-market-first-time-in-decade-2019-9-1028534289

In any other week this would be big news, but a mysterious attack in Saudi that no-one can figure out the motivation for sucks up all the airtime.

Quin_Dub

Trump's promise to foreign leader prompts whistleblower complaint – report

So the recent brouhaha about the DNI refusing to share details of a confirmed "Serious and Credible" Whistleblower submission has taken an interesting turn.

It now seems that the issue is about serious concerns surrounding a "promise" that Trump made to a foreign leader.

No one knows which foreign leader is involved but according to the Washington Post in the 5 weeks prior to the complaint being lodged on August 12th, Trump met or had known correspondence with Putin , Kim Jong Un , The Emir of Quatar and the Prime Ministers of Pakistan and the Netherlands.

Call me a cynic , but I'm not seeing Trump making dodgy promises to Mark Rutte and the others on the list aren't exactly paragons of virtue now are they.

The complaint was filed with Atkinson’s office on Aug. 12, a date on which Trump was at his golf resort in New Jersey. White House records indicate that Trump had had conversations or interactions with at least five foreign leaders in the preceding five weeks.

Among them was a call with Russian President Vladimir Putin that the White House initiated on July 31. Trump also received at least two letters from North Korean leader Kim Jong Un during the summer, describing them as “beautiful” messages. In June, Trump said publicly that he was opposed to certain CIA spying operations against North Korea. Referring to a Wall Street Journal report that the agency had recruited Kim’s half-brother, Trump said, “I would tell him that would not happen under my auspices.”

Trump met with other foreign leaders at the White House in July, including the prime minister of Pakistan, the prime minister of the Netherlands, and the emir of Qatar.

Just another regular day in a perfectly normal functioning administration.