Woman charged with manslaughter because her unborn baby died after she was shot

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

jhegarty wrote: »

That's how the felony murder law works.

If I rob a bank and there is a gun fight I am responsible for everyone who dies, even I didn't shoot them.

Even the getaway driver sitting outside will be guilt for the death of someone the security guard kills while trying to hit the other robbers.

“Gun fight” suggests the robbers would also be armed, no? Hence why a fight would be happening. Was the woman who lost the baby armed? If she was, then that would change things. But if she wasn’t, the comparison doesn’t really work.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Em, okay, alot of people on here claiming this case is racially motivated policing in the “evil backward deep south”.

None of you have an iota of evidence for this assertion. You’re all thinking “black, Alabama, racism” and it’s pretty disgusting. First of all it’s a myth that in general black people are unfairly treated by police in America. Statistics show they’re being shot in precisely the proportions that are committing crimes, which happens to be more than white folk. That’s not the fault of the police. Most of these former Jim Crow states have come dramatically far on racial issues.

You can’t just blame every percieved racial disparity on actual racial prejudice, there are a multiplicity of reasons for disparities between racial groups, one reason is the massive rate of single motherhood in the black community. Again, if anyone has evidence of racial bias in this woman’s being charged, by all means bring it forth.

People have been pretty clear that they are speculating, from my reading of it. I don’t think you need to provide evidence in that case because you’re not definitively saying that’s what happened.

Tokyo

strandroad wrote: »

To shoot someone in the stomach who's arguing with you, such a natural response. In Alabama.

A quick google says that the shot in question was a warning shot fired to the ground, that ricocheted into the woman in question. Slightly different scenario.

Plumbthedepths

Sean.3516 wrote: »

What evidence do you have that the decision to prosecute this woman was motivated by racial prejudice? Other than your own conjecture of course.

My bad there is no evidence that black people have ever suffered disproportionately in the US justice system especially in the southern states. Exemplary equal rights is a stalwart of American society. Thank you for encouraging me to examine my comment solely based on information gained from my friends living in America of which some are black.

super_furry

Some parts of America are far closer to Sharia law that it would ever admit.

Sean.3516

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My bad there is no evidence that black people have ever suffered disproportionately in the US justice system especially in the southern states. Exemplary equal rights is a stalwart of American society. Thank you for encouraging me to examine my comment solely based on information gained from my friends living in America of which some are black.

Once again, if you’re going to maintain someone has been mistreated based on race you need to present some evidence (for the case in question). You can’t just say, “well all of these black folks have been discriminated against. Chances are this woman was too.” You can’t just point to some generalized percieved bias based on anecdotal evidence form your friends.

The woman who shot her was also black, if all of this is a racist stich up then why was the black lady who actually fired the shot let off scot free? Or maybe it was a question of evidence and facts? Maybe the police, the judge and the ppl of the grand jury aren’t KKK members?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Once again, if you’re going to maintain someone has been mistreated based on race you need to present some evidence (for the case in question). You can’t just say, “well all of these black folks have been discriminated against. Chances are this woman was too.” You can’t just point to some generalized percieved bias based on anecdotal evidence form your friends.

The woman who shot her was also black, if all of this is a racist stich up then why was the black lady who actually fired the shot let off scot free? Or maybe it was a question of evidence and facts? Maybe the police, the judge and the ppl of the grand jury aren’t KKK members?

And once again, if you’re speculating, you don’t. That’s literally what speculation is, an opinion formed without evidence. People can decide for themselves what they think is likely based on prior knowledge. As long as they are not doggedly saying that’s 100% what happened, I don’t see the problem. There’s not going to be a peer-reviewed study to back up everything. We all sometimes speculate on one thing or another.

Plumbthedepths

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Once again, if you’re going to maintain someone has been mistreated based on race you need to present some evidence (for the case in question). You can’t just say, “well all of these black folks have been discriminated against. Chances are this woman was too.” You can’t just point to some generalized percieved bias based on anecdotal evidence form your friends.

The woman who shot her was also black, if all of this is a racist stich up then why was the black lady who actually fired the shot let off scot free? Or maybe it was a question of evidence and facts? Maybe the police, the judge and the ppl of the grand jury aren’t KKK members?

Do you understand the concept of opinion based on experience and knowledge?

Sean.3516

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

And once again, if you’re speculating, you don’t. That’s literally what speculation is, an opinion formed without evidence. People can decide for themselves what they think is likely based on prior knowledge. As long as they are not doggedly saying that’s 100% what happened, I don’t see the problem. There’s not going to be a peer-reviewed study to back up everything. We all sometimes speculate on one thing or another.

But people are not merely speculating, they’re assuming. When one says that this case is a racial stitch up, that is a truth statement.

It’s a truth statement made without evidence and is therefore unfalsifiable.

What I’m saying is there ought to be fact-based standard where we don’t just impugn people’s motivations without evidence.

Sean.3516

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you understand the concept of opinion based on experience and knowledge?

How do you have the experience and knowledge to say that the prosecution of this particular 28 year old black woman is based on racial prejudice? Unless you were there or you have access to some knowledge that the the rest of us don’t.

Plumbthedepths

Sean.3516 wrote: »

How do you have the experience and knowledge to say that the prosecution of this particular 28 year old black woman is based on racial prejudice? Unless you were there or you have access to some knowledge that the the rest of us don’t.

Dude it's a discussion forum, I posted my opinion based on my knowledge of the states and the experience of some of my black friends. It's really not difficult to research the area this woman is from regarding racial tensions and civil rights. You want cold hard facts, I suggest you are in the wrong place. Now I've responded to you a couple of times won't be doing so again.

Sean.3516

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Dude it's a discussion forum, I posted my opinion based on my knowledge of the states and the experience of some of my black friends. It's really not difficult to research the area this woman is from regarding racial tensions and civil rights. You want cold hard facts, I suggest you are in the wrong place. Now I've responded to you a couple of times won't be doing so again.

I’m baffled as to why anyone would want anything other than cold hard facts in a case like this.

jhegarty

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

“Gun fight” suggests the robbers would also be armed, no? Hence why a fight would be happening. Was the woman who lost the baby armed? If she was, then that would change things. But if she wasn’t, the comparison doesn’t really work.

No , same rule applies if the robber start punching the bank cashier in the face.

Robber A punches cashier.
Security guard fires gun at Robber A.
Security guard guard hits and kills both Robber B and bystander. Robber A is wounded. Getaway driver speeds off on hearing the gunfire.

Both the getaway driver and Robber A get charged with two felony murders.

The Late Late Show

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

I couldn't believe it when I saw the headline this morning. Thought it just had to be misleading clickbait.

It's actually frightening that this is in a western democracy.

And believe me I despise when people make stupid comparisons with the book (well tv series because they never heard of the book published over 30 years before the tv series) but that really IS some Handmaid's Tale sh1t.

It is scary stuff. It is not surprising though and that is one aspect of the book/film/TV series The Handmaid's Tale that many do not get: that this type of thing lies dormant in the background of many societies until some situation, person or lobby group decide to get behind it. Statements like 'I was asleep before, that's how we let it happen' or 'You were there all along' emphasise that. That Margaret Atwood wrote this book in 1984/85 shows it was a study of a horrible side of America she knew existed. Guess where she wrote the latter part of the book? Alabama!

The whole point is this is real stuff she included and then imagined what would happen AFTER a major war on American soil. Places like Alabama would turn very nasty if a war broke out there. We just need to look at Syria and Afghanistan for comparison: what went on there in those wars was lying dormant like a volcano and the war released it. Sadly, that same negative energy exists in Alabama and this disgusting judgement shows us that. The name 'Gilead' or 'Sons of Jacob' belong clearly to Atwood but evil misogyny and politicians and judges sympathetic to it sadly exist for real in states such as Alabama.

branie2

Just because her baby died? :mad:

Gimme A Pound

notobtuse wrote: »

FYI... Responsible for bringing charges are District Attorney, Lynneice Washington, the first African-American female district attorney in the state (but is currently out of the country) and Chief Assistant District Attorney Valerie Hicks Powe… who is also black.

Yeah I think people are being too quick to assume that the race of the woman is part of this. Perhaps it is, but people are close to stating it's a fact.

One person even tried to back the claim by mentioning Alabama's segregation past - whereas nobody actually said its past wasn't atrocious in that regard... but we are talking about 2019.

Again, I don't know for certain, but I reckon it's more likely that police are much more careful in this regard now. And there are plenty of black police officers.

Walter Bishop

Charges dropped: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48849040

Diziet

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Yeah I think people are being too quick to assume that the race of the woman is part of this. Perhaps it is, but people are close to stating it's a fact.

One person even tried to back the claim by mentioning Alabama's segregation past - whereas nobody actually said its past wasn't atrocious in that regard... but we are talking about 2019.

Again, I don't know for certain, but I reckon it's more likely that police are much more careful in this regard now. And there are plenty of black police officers.

The American policing and judicial system is incredibly racially biased, even if you have black judges or black police officers. Structural inequality is very real. Any of the stats on arrests, shootings by police, imprisonment, you name it, show an overwhelming bias.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Charges dropped: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48849040

Sense prevails!

branie2

That's great