Woman charged with manslaughter because her unborn baby died after she was shot

Outlaw Pete

Yeah, mad headline that, but true.

A woman in the states (Alabama) has been charged with manslaughter after she was shot while pregnant and her baby died. The charges were brought as it was felt she instigated the row which led to the shooting. The shooter wasn't charged as it was determined that they had acted in self defense.

Woman loses unborn child after being shot, gets arrested; shooter goes free

A woman whose unborn baby was killed in a 2018 Pleasant Grove shooting has now been indicted in the death.

Marshae Jones, a 27-year-old Birmingham woman, was indicted by a Jefferson County grand jury on a manslaughter charge. She was taken into custody on Wednesday.

Though Jones didn’t fire the shots that killed her unborn baby girl, authorities say she initiated the dispute that led to the gunfire. Police initially charged 23-year-old Ebony Jemison with manslaughter, but the charge against Jemison was dismissed after the grand jury failed to indict her.

Jones was taken from Fairfield to UAB Hospital. She was five months pregnant and was shot in the stomach. The unborn baby did not survive the shooting.

“The investigation showed that the only true victim in this was the unborn baby,’’ Pleasant Grove police Lt. Danny Reid said at the time of the shooting. “It was the mother of the child who initiated and continued the fight which resulted in the death of her own unborn baby.”

Reid said the fight stemmed over the unborn baby’s father. The investigation showed, he said, that it was Jones who initiated and pressed the fight, which ultimately caused Jemison to defend herself and unfortunately caused the death of the baby.

"Let’s not lose sight that the unborn baby is the victim here,’’ Reid said. “She had no choice in being brought unnecessarily into a fight where she was relying on her mother for protection."

The 5-month fetus was "dependent on its mother to try to keep it from harm, and she shouldn’t seek out unnecessary physical altercations,” Reid added.

Jones will be transferred to the Jefferson County Jail where she will be held on $50,000 bond.

I'm guessing this is an 'involuntary manslaughter' charge as opposed to a 'voluntary' one as the former involves an element of intent and there was clearly none here.

strandroad

To shoot someone in the stomach who's arguing with you, such a natural response. In Alabama.

ILoveYourVibes

Lenard skynard moment.

Plumbthedepths

Before I clicked the link I assumed the woman was black, pressed the link I assumed correctly.

Grayson

That's bat**** crazy on a whole other level.

paw patrol

strandroad wrote: »

To shoot someone in the stomach who's arguing with you, such a natural response. In Alabama.

did you even read the article or you just comment for a cheap laugh and the likes?
fight not argument. and it was deemed as a reasonable defence.

The investigation showed, he said, that it was Jones who initiated and pressed the fight, which ultimately caused Jemison to defend herself and unfortunately caused the death of the baby.

Timberrrrrrrr

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Before I clicked the link I assumed the woman was black, pressed the link I assumed correctly.

Wow


Straight to the colour card!

Living up to username seems to be a thing these days on boards.

dudara

That story is buggered up beyond belief. Obviously the pregnant woman shouldn’t have been fighting, but she didn’t shoot herself in the stomach. To charge her with manslaughter is cruel. It’s blaming her for getting shot.

Plumbthedepths

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Wow


Straight to the colour card!

Living up to username seems to be a thing these days on boards.

Actually if you took the time to either think about it or ask me why I said I assumed she was black, was based on the fact she's a black Birmingham Alabama resident, now if she were white this would not have happened. I suggest you research the area and it's civil rights history.... and oh yeah try and be a little less 'triggered'.

Gimme A Pound

I couldn't believe it when I saw the headline this morning. Thought it just had to be misleading clickbait.

It's actually frightening that this is in a western democracy.

And believe me I despise when people make stupid comparisons with the book (well tv series because they never heard of the book published over 30 years before the tv series) but that really IS some Handmaid's Tale sh1t.

Timberrrrrrrr

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually if you took the time to either think about it or ask me why I said I assumed she was black, was based on the fact she's a black Birmingham Alabama resident, now if she were white this would not have happened. I suggest you research the area and it's civil rights history.... and oh yeah try and be a little less 'triggered'.

Why?

Why would her "whitness" have prevented this?

And please, using,the word "triggered" ffs :rolleyes:

One eyed Jack

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Before I clicked the link I assumed the woman was black, pressed the link I assumed correctly.

Shots fired!

Gimme A Pound

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why?

Why would her "whitness" have prevented this?

And please, using,the word "triggered" ffs :rolleyes:

Unfair police bias against black folk I assume is what they mean. Think you're rushing to assume they're being racist when it's the opposite.

Personally l don't think her skin colour would have made a difference.

strandroad

paw patrol wrote: »

did you even read the article or you just comment for a cheap laugh and the likes?
fight not argument. and it was deemed as a reasonable defence.

I did. She came to the brawl unarmed. I don't think shooting someone in the stomach is an appropriate defence against fists and nails; clearly Alabama judiciary disagrees.

ILoveYourVibes

Poor woman she was shot and lost her baby and now this.

Ok she should not have fought etc (if that is what happened)

Its so sad though.

theteal

Some serious false advertising on the name of the shooting location.

Plumbthedepths

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why?

Why would her "whitness" have prevented this?

And please, using,the word "triggered" ffs :rolleyes:

So you think a white person and a black( coloured ) person receives the same treatment from law enforcement in America particularly the southern states? That's naive to say the least and yes triggered fits your initial reply.

hgfj

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually if you took the time to either think about it or ask me why I said I assumed she was black, was based on the fact she's a black Birmingham Alabama resident, now if she were white this would not have happened. I suggest you research the area and it's civil rights history.... and oh yeah try and be a little less 'triggered'.

From what you just posted, you assumed she was black before you clicked the link, "based on the fact she's a black Birmingham Alabama resident". So you made an assumption based on a fact you were not aware of before you clicked the link?

luv 2 discuss america on boards.ie

osarusan

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why?

Why would her "whitness" have prevented this?

And please, using,the word "triggered" ffs

I think the point being made is that the police/justice department wouldn't have brought manslaughter charges against a white woman in these circumstances, rather than her being white meaning the fight would never have happened in the first place.

Plumbthedepths

hgfj wrote: »

From what you just posted, you assumed she was black before you clicked the link, "based on the fact she's a black Birmingham Alabama resident". So you made an assumption based on a fact you were not aware of before you clicked the link?

Fair play you worked out I made an assumption because I said I assumed , and I went on to clarify why I said this but hey if it helps you feel outraged you can ignore my explanation.

hgfj

QYou explained nothing. You clarified nothing. You assumed she was black before you clicked the link. Then you said that assumption was based on the fact she was black.

Sonics2k

hgfj wrote: »

QYou explained nothing. You clarified nothing. You assumed she was black before you clicked the link. Then you said that assumption was based on the fact she was black.

I think what he was referring to, although phrased badly, is that you could base the assumption the woman is black simply based on the nonsense of the headline and the charges against her.

People can argue all they want, but the odds of a white woman being charged with the same thing in that place are very, very low.

Plumbthedepths

hgfj wrote: »

QYou explained nothing. You clarified nothing. You assumed she was black before you clicked the link. Then you said that assumption was based on the fact she was black.

So you haven't read anything else I wrote just back to my first post again and again.... You have an awesome day I have a feeling responding to you could become quite tedious so I will refrain from doing so.

Plumbthedepths

hgfj wrote: »

QYou explained nothing. You clarified nothing. You assumed she was black before you clicked the link. Then you said that assumption was based on the fact she was black.

So you haven't read anything else I wrote just back to my first post again and again.... You have an awesome day I have a feeling responding to you could become quite tedious so I will refrain from doing so.

B0jangles

Assuming her race is relevant to how she was treated is not much of a stretch.

https://www.splcenter.org/20181018/alabamas-war-marijuana?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=fbfb3108-c152-47d8-8e23-28fac65ab617

Black people were approximately four times as likely as white people to be arrested for marijuana possession (both misdemeanors and felonies) in 2016 – and five times as likely to be arrested for felony possession. These racial disparities exist despite robust evidence that white and black people use marijuana at roughly the same rate.

In at least seven law enforcement jurisdictions, black people were 10 or more times as likely as white people to be arrested for marijuana possession.

Trying to pretend law-enforcement is colourblind in Alabama is at best, hilariously ill-informed.

gibgodsman

There is no way this charge could stand right? Would be like suggesting anyone who falls or does something that might cause a miscarriage to get charged.

Imagine what this would mean for anyone who gets an abortion.....

biko

'Bama

FunLover18

gibgodsman wrote: »

Imagine what this would mean for anyone who gets an abortion.....

Isn't Alabama one of the states that recently brought in extremely strict abortion laws?

seamus

Alabama has some really ****ed up ideas about fault.

If you're committing a crime and someone dies, you can be charged with murder.

Four 15 year olds broke into a house in Alabama. Police arrived, shot one of the kids dead. His friend went down for 65 years for murder because Alabama law found him vicariously guilty of his friend's death.

And yes, he was black too.

Alabama, man. What a sh1thole.

Race is a huge factor in this mess, it's unlikely a white woman would be persecuted/prosecuted in the same situation. Bullying the least able to resist is a hobby in some States. People row, but she didn't shoot herself.

eviltwin

Of course race is an issue here. Does anyone really believe a middle class white woman would have been treated this way?

gibgodsman

eviltwin wrote: »

Of course race is an issue here. Does anyone really believe a middle class white woman would have been treated this way?

Would a Middle Class White Woman have been instigating and fighting whilst pregnant? I don't think its about race, I think its about a stupid person coming up against a stupid country with stupid laws

FunLover18

gibgodsman wrote: »

Would a Middle Class White Woman have been instigating and fighting whilst pregnant? I don't think its about race, I think its about a stupid person coming up against a stupid country with stupid laws

You might want to reword your first sentence as it looks like you do think it's about race. Not accusing you, just saying it doesn't read very well.

Edit: agree with the last sentence though.

MrFresh

Alabama is like something from a dystopian novel.

mad muffin

So don’t commit violent crimes in Alabama. Cause if you do… expect biblical style justice.

Iscreamkone

I didn't think that you could murder/manslaughter an unborn?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Wow


Straight to the colour card!

Living up to username seems to be a thing these days on boards.

It's actually quite an important point to make. It's the states, there's huge racial issues and then we have Alabama going that bit further.

strandroad

gibgodsman wrote: »

Would a Middle Class White Woman have been instigating and fighting whilst pregnant?

Based on your typical news, white middle class women don't do brawls or fights, we have episodes or meltdowns instead.

Iscreamkone

strandroad wrote: »

Based on your typical news, white middle class women don't do brawls or fights, we have episodes or meltdowns instead.

Cough, Aisling Thompson, cough!

ceadaoin.

What's next? Pregnant women who get in car accidents charged with a crime? Those who drink or take drugs while pregnant? Those who can't prove their miscarriage occured naturally? Seems like that's the way it's going in these backwards states

And let's not pretend it's just some crazy American thing. There are people on this site who think that women who have abortions should be charged with murder and/or put to death ffs

notobtuse

FYI... Responsible for bringing charges are District Attorney, Lynneice Washington, the first African-American female district attorney in the state (but is currently out of the country) and Chief Assistant District Attorney Valerie Hicks Powe… who is also black. As it turns out Jones might not be prosecuted in unborn baby’s death.

splinter65

eviltwin wrote: »

Of course race is an issue here. Does anyone really believe a middle class white woman would have been treated this way?

I see the people responsible for bringing these charges are both female and both black. So that’s put that to bed.

splinter65

ceadaoin. wrote: »

What's next? Pregnant women who get in car accidents charged with a crime? Those who drink or take drugs while pregnant? Those who can't prove their miscarriage occured naturally? Seems like that's the way it's going in these backwards states

And let's not pretend it's just some crazy American thing. There are people on this site who think that women who have abortions should be charged with murder and/or put to death ffs

Pro life people believe abortionists should be charged with murder, not the mothers who are victims themselves.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I can totally accept that somebody might fire a gun in self-defence. I’ve no issue with that at all. But the shooter does have some degree of control over where they shoot. The aggressor has no influence over that. Crazy charge.

splinter65

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I can totally accept that somebody might fire a gun in self-defence. I’ve no issue with that at all. But the shooter does have some degree of control over where they shoot. The aggressor has no influence over that. Crazy charge.

In the US you can own a firearm and need absolutely no firearms training or skill or practice or anything like that.
It’s perfectly normal for women to carry a gun in their handbag for protection, self defense etc.
She was in fear of her life, she probably never even pointed the gun at anyone before. It’s a wonder she even hit the target.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

splinter65 wrote: »

In the US you can own a firearm and need absolutely no firearms training or skill or practice or anything like that.
It’s perfectly normal for women to carry a gun in their handbag for protection, self defense etc.
She was in fear of her life, she probably never even pointed the gun at anyone before. It’s a wonder she even hit the target.

Sure. I still don’t believe that makes person you’re shooting at responsible for where the bullet goes. Self-defence should go as far as the person practicing self-defence not being charged with anything if it’s ascertained that using self-defence was reasonable in the circumstances.

Faugheen

splinter65 wrote: »

Pro life people believe abortionists should be charged with murder, not the mothers who are victims themselves.

'Abortionists'.

Piss off.

Outlaw Pete

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I didn't think that you could murder/manslaughter an unborn?

Depends on the state but yeah, good few examples of it, most notably Scott Peterson who was found guilty of the second-degree murder of his unborn child back in 2004 after their body was found on the shore of San Francisco Bay, the day before the body of his 26-year-old wife (Laci) was found. She was seven months pregnant when she went missing.

splinter65

Faugheen wrote: »

'Abortionists'.

Piss off.

How else do you describe someone who does abortions for a living?

Reati

Sonics2k wrote: »

I think what he was referring to, although phrased badly, is that you could base the assumption the woman is black simply based on the nonsense of the headline and the charges against her.

People can argue all they want, but the odds of a white woman being charged with the same thing in that place are very, very low.

Indeed, even the head of the women's rights group there said something simular. She even said... Black.

“Today, Marshae Jones is being charged with manslaughter for being pregnant and getting shot while engaging in an altercation with a person who had a gun. Tomorrow, it will be another black woman , maybe for having a drink while pregnant. And after that, another, for not obtaining adequate prenatal care,” Reyes said.