RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Hellrazer

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought that it was released? It shows that the figure unaccounted for is about the right figure for coursing dogs. There would a number of pups reared in Ireland but never race here, being English owned and raced.

No it was never released. But you did mention that there are 2000 dogs coursing at the minute.

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no truth in that statistic as it doesn’t account for
(A) Dogs retired as pets with owners
(B) Dogs that are bred for coursing
(C) Dogs that have been sold, mainly to the Uk, but other Europe countries, eg Sweden

“ At the moment, there are 3,600 greyhounds in the country. In 2018, there were 2,344 litters. We send about 6,500 greyhounds to England every year.
There are about 2,000 greyhounds coursing. Those are the current figures.”
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_agriculture_food_and_the_marine/2019-07-09/7/

Ok Ill use these figures in a minute.

gozunda wrote: »

Indeed it does and it is correct. The figures give to data from 2016 which gave 139 dogs pts or died due to injuries etc and yes that rate amounts to a figure of 0.14%. In 2015 the rate was 0.13%

If you read the thread this has already been gone over many times.


As for the claim that 6000 are killed according to some - again this has been detailed in this thread many times

This from nearly 5 months ago. It still stands

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110544891&postcount=350

6,000 were not 'killed'. UP to 6,000 aren’t accounted for from age 3 months.

So again

The dogs detailed were unaccounted - and not 'killed' as is repeated by the usual screamers and then repeated ad nauseam without checking. The previous system of recordings that dogs sold etc that where dogs were sold that recording that was not required. Afaik that is now changed

Whatever the failings of the IGB using ****e like that to continuously misrepresent the actual facts is puerile at best.

Fair enough.
However something is still off with those figures.

Its still not adding up for me.

Lets take the number for 2018 that Mary linked to in a previous post.

2344 Litters--Greyhounds can have up to 10 pups.So Ill be conservative here and say there was 16,408 pups born (average of 7 per litter)
16408 - 6500 (UK Export) - 3600 (Ireland) - 2000 (Coursing) = 12,100

Theres still a shortfall there of 4300 pups born in just 2018 alone.

Can you or Mary answer where those 4300 dogs are?
Were they exported? Sold to China for food?
Or just shot in the head.

Its all well and good saying something has been discussed already in the thread and then just linking me to a post that just says they were "unaccounted for" and not killed.

That's just deflecting from the point I made about 4300 dogs just missing.

Im not making up figures here--Im using the ones that Mary a supporter of this "sport " supplied here on thread.

I still call bull**** on the fact that dogs are not being "accounted " for and are just "missing"

Hellrazer

Mary - Apologies it was released.

https://www.igb.ie/globalassets/talking-dogs/pr/preferred-results---igb-organisation-restructuring-report---pages-1---65-compressed.pdf

And for what its worth Id much rather believe whats in that report having read it in its entirety than listen to the IGB that just decided they didn't agree with the figure.

I would suggest that everyone read it especially pages 26-30

gozunda

Hellrazer wrote: »

No it was never released. But you did mention that there are 2000 dogs coursing at the minute.
Ok Ill use these figures in a minute.
Fair enough.However something is still off with those figures.Its still not adding up for me.
Lets take the number for 2018 that Mary linked to in a previous post.2344 Litters--Greyhounds can have up to 10 pups.So Ill be conservative here and say there was 16,408 pups born (average of 7 per litter)
16408 - 6500 (UK Export) - 3600 (Ireland) - 2000 (Coursing) = 12,100
Theres still a shortfall there of 4300 pups born in just 2018 alone.Can you or Mary answer where those 4300 dogs are?Were they exported? Sold to China for food?Or just shot in the head.
Its all well and good saying something has been discussed already in the thread and then just linking me to a post that just says they were "unaccounted for" and not killed.That's just deflecting from the point I made about 4300 dogs just missing.Im not making up figures here--Im using the ones that Mary a supporter of this "sport " supplied here on thread.I still call bull**** on the fact that dogs are not being "accounted " for and are just "missing"

No one is being obtuse here Hellrazer - but the fact remains that the figures are not there simply because detailed records were not kept at that time.

We can speculate and pull figures out of the air tbh until the cows are blue in the face ( sorry to mix metaphors) - and throw in any amount of daft assertions - such as dogs beeing sent to china for food. Even the RTE footage did not show greyhounds being used as food. As I've said already I've nothing to do with greyhounds - but absolutely nothing I've ever read even suggests dogs were evet sent there for that purpose and frankly it makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes again from what I've read and learned about this there are other factors such as mortality and yes even dogs put to sleep because of illness etc. My neighbours dog had a litter of 5 pups last year - one was born dead and another died of an infection at 8 weeks. Litter size can vary widely afaik. Anything from two upwards - so using figures skewed towards bigger litter sizes will not help any calculations. I also know dogs were surrendered to pounds in the past for a variety of reasons. The point is there are any amount of ways of coming up with widely different figures. Unfortunately it helps nothing

The data now has to be recorded. To me that is the most important issue coming out if all of this and not endless speculation, allegations and restaurmatics done on the back of envelopes or throwing assertions around based on made up those figures.

Sheepdish1

How was an injunction served for protesters at Shelbourn and what grounds?

Could this have implications for protests in the future ?

gozunda

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

How was an injunction served for protesters at Shelbourn and what grounds?

Could this have implications for protests in the future ?

Any Link?

jackboy

wardides wrote: »

Rotten industry ran and participated, mostly, by people who are led by one thing - Money.

Not true. Most people with greyhounds make no profit. A lot of them actually lose money.

Discodog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

About 6,000 are exported to the Uk every year.
Greyhounds aren’t let run loose. On my premises alone, I would have an average of 25 greyhounds of all ages at any one time.
Dogs do eventually die.

This is another issue with the industry. Dogs are classified as companion animals that have totally different psychological & physical needs to wild animals or livestock.

You appear to have a dog farm. I struggle to see how so many dogs can receive enough individual attention.

Why does the industry allow exports? We know the level of killing in the UK, Spain etc. Why would a caring owner want to sell or export a dog? The dogs are regarded as stock rather than companion animals.

And, before someone mentions it, rescues do have a number of dogs. But they are transient & awaiting rehoming.

Yes pet dogs are exported but most will end up in caring homes. The Greyhound owner appears to not care about where their dog ends up.

Sheepdish1

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

How was an injunction served for protesters at Shelbourn and what grounds?

Could this have implications for protests in the future ?

The protesters did themselves no favours in their intimidating behavior. And their attempts to get Shelbournes neighbors join them on their rather vociferous picket lines.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/greyhound-track-operators-secure-temporary-injunction-against-shelbourne-park-protestors-967459.html

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The protesters did themselves no favours in their intimidating behavior. And their attempts to get Shelbournes neighbors join them on their rather vociferous picket lines.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/greyhound-track-operators-secure-temporary-injunction-against-shelbourne-park-protestors-967459.html

Tbh take a look what groups are organising these pickets. Not going to names as per boards Tou but the extreme animal rights brigades who do no one any favours. Many of the these types want to also get rid of domestic pets and other animals on the grounds that that is 'slavery' and they are abominations created by humans etc etc. Lovely lot altogether

And no I'm not saying all those who protest are the same - I know there are many people who simply would like to see things genuinley improved

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Tbh take a look what groups are organising these pickets. Not going to names as per boards Tou but the extreme animal rights brigades who do no one any favours. Many of the same want to also get rid of domestic pets and other animals on the grounds that that is 'slavery' and they are abominations created by humans etc etc. Lovely lot altogether

And no I'm not saying all those who protest are the same - I know there are many people who simply would like to see things genuinley improved

Derby final night showed how protesting should and shouldn’t be done. One group stood silently in mourning garb, while others stood in front of racegoers brandishing placards in their faces and screaming obscenities.

Igotadose

gozunda wrote: »

Tbh take a look what groups are organising these pickets. Not going to names as per boards Tou but the extreme animal rights brigades who do no one any favours. Many of the same want to also get rid of domestic pets and other animals on the grounds that that is 'slavery' and they are abominations created by humans etc etc. Lovely lot altogether

And no I'm not saying all those who protest are the same - I know there are many people who simply would like to see things genuinley improved

But, unless there are protests, nothing happens. Nothing. Zip. Nada. The documentary did great public service exposing the ineptitude and corruption in the exploitative, venal industry that is Greyhound racing. It brought to public attention abhorrent practices like coursing (which should be banned, as it's pointless animal abuse and only serves the gambling interests of connected dilettantes like the ones running the IGB.) All the 'good owners' (if there are actually any, as I think if you engage in this sport you explicitly endorse its awful practices), are doing, is the beal bocht on how imposed upon they feel, what with a government tax subsidy for their 'hobby.'

The deflection to 'we need better data' yadda yadda that the IGB preach, is just that - deflection. IGB's own studies showed how bad the numbers are, there's been no coherent rebuttal from the IGB or here, just 'we're now going to get better data.' I say shut it all down, nothing's change, dogs still die on tracks and way too many animals and peoples lives ruined in support of gambling entertainment - completely valuleless to society as a whole.

gozunda

Igotadose wrote: »

But, unless there are protests, nothing happens. Nothing. Zip. Nada. The documentary did great public service exposing the ineptitude and corruption in the exploitative, venal industry that is Greyhound racing. It brought to public attention abhorrent practices like coursing (which should be banned, as it's pointless animal abuse and only serves the gambling interests of connected dilettantes like the ones running the IGB.) All the 'good owners' (if there are actually any, as I think if you engage in this sport you explicitly endorse its awful practices), are doing, is the beal bocht on how imposed upon they feel, what with a government tax subsidy for their 'hobby.'
The deflection to 'we need better data' yadda yadda that the IGB preach, is just that - deflection. IGB's own studies showed how bad the numbers are, there's been no coherent rebuttal from the IGB or here, just 'we're now going to get better data.' I say shut it all down, nothing's change, dogs still die on tracks and way too many animals and peoples lives ruined in support of gambling entertainment - completely valuleless to society as a whole.

Who said people shouldn't protest? But plenty of other ways of positively making changes as well.

Yes things could be better imo. Sorry you dont agree. And as said I've nada to do with IGB and I'm not involved with greyhounds . So you can can the finger pointing and hyperbole thanks all the same.

As for dogs and race deaths - figures published show that show the actual death rate in races (dogs pts by vets etc) is less than 1 percent at 0.14% per 100000 dogs raced. And no - no one is even excusing that. I get it you personally dont like racing, betting, even those who own greyhounds for racing . Thats your opinion. My own experience of greyhound owners is very different to yours and yes there are good owners - I've met them.

Discodog

Why don't the good owners join the moderate protestors & demand change?

The Industry encourages militant protestors by ignoring the moderate ones.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Why don't the good owners join the moderate protestors & demand change?

The Industry encourages militant protestors by ignoring the moderate ones.

The good owners have been lobbying for change for years. We are making some progress. Welfare and traceability will be much more transparent from now on.

Discodog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The good owners have been lobbying for change for years. We are making some progress. Welfare and traceability will be much more transparent from now on.

So why do you complain about the RTE documentary which has done more to promote change than anything else?

You should of welcomed it but your vitriol against the program suggests that you don't want change at all.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

So why do you complain about the RTE documentary which has done more to promote change than anything else?

You should of welcomed it but your vitriol against the program suggests that you don't want change at all.

I’m a great believer in “Tell the truth and shame the devil”. There were so many untruths in that program. I would HAVE welcomed a factual, up to date discussion. We didn’t get that. A number of owners and breeders submitted articles to the reporter, but they didn’t suit his agenda and were ignored. A live interview with IGB representatives was also disallowed. RTÉ wanted a prerecorded, edited interview.

MIKEKC

Discodog wrote: »

So why do you complain about the RTE documentary which has done more to promote change than anything else?

You should of welcomed it but your vitriol against the program suggests that you don't want change at all.

If the good owners couldnt make changes despite years of trying doesn't this imply that there are a lot more bad owners than good owners. Surely majority should rule

gozunda

MIKEKC wrote: »

If the good owners couldnt make changes despite years of trying doesn't this imply that there are a lot more bad owners than good owners. Surely majority should rule

Yeah sure it works like that in real life. fek it and tar everyone with the same brush. :rolleyes:

Discodog

MIKEKC wrote: »

If the good owners couldnt make changes despite years of trying doesn't this imply that there are a lot more bad owners than good owners. Surely majority should rule

The IGB are not going to let anything get in the way of business. The idea that owners didn't know what has been going on for decades is totally unbelievable. I remember awareness campaigns from 30 years ago. This is nothing new. The only difference is that RTE put it directly into thousands of homes.

MIKEKC

Discodog wrote: »

The IGB are not going to let anything get in the way of business. The idea that owners didn't know what has been going on for decades is totally unbelievable. I remember awareness campaigns from 30 years ago. This is nothing new. The only difference is that RTE put it directly into thousands of homes.

I still can't understand why RTE didn't go the whole hog and show hounds being blooded. This would surely have put the nail in the coffin of this industry

RIP all greyhounds who have died throughout 2019 through the the actions of their callous owners who put money and greed and profit before the welfare of their dogs.

gozunda

MIKEKC wrote: »

I still can't understand why RTE didn't go the whole hog and show hounds being blooded. This would surely have put the nail in the coffin of this industry

Possibly because it sounds like more hype from those who want to tar all and everyone as 'bad' because it fits an anti greyhound racing ideology. Tbh I've never seen nor heard of blooding. And I live in a rural area - where greyhounds are not uncommon. I will say though whilst Im not saying it couldnt happen - but as said whilst there are cnuts everywhere - no everyone is a cnut. I reckon you need to look to illegal activities before trying to throw ****e at everyone.

MIKEKC

gozunda wrote: »

Possibly because it sounds like more hype from those who want to tar all and everyone as 'bad' because it fits an anti greyhound racing ideology. Tbh I've never seen nor heard of blooding. And I live in a rural area - where greyhounds are not uncommon. I will say though whilst Im not saying it couldnt happen - but as said whilst there are cnuts everywhere - no everyone is a cnut. I reckon you need to look to illegal activities before trying to throw ****e at everyone.

You certainly won't see it the people involved make sure it's done in secret. I cannot believe you never heard of it. As regards looking to illegal activities, are you saying that throwing live animals to dogs wouldn't be illegal?. I said in a previous post that there was a programme on the radio some months back and a man said that they used to catch hares and give them to the coursing people, who would then break their leg and set the greyhounds after them. Surely this can't be legal

jackboy

MIKEKC wrote: »

You certainly won't see it the people involved make sure it's done in secret. I cannot believe you never heard of it. As regards looking to illegal activities, are you saying that throwing live animals to dogs wouldn't be illegal?. I said in a previous post that there was a programme on the radio some months back and a man said that they used to catch hares and give them to the coursing people, who would then break their leg and set the greyhounds after them. Surely this can't be legal

It would be illegal. Was the man on the radio arrested for contributing to that?

Discodog

jackboy wrote: »

It would be illegal. Was the man on the radio arrested for contributing to that?

Of course not. Have you ever tried approaching the Guards with an animal welfare issue?

A foal was stoned to death, by a load of kids & with plenty of witnesses in Galway. The Guards said that it was up to the GSPCA who have no legal power.

Yet people post here saying that one should report animal abuse to the Guards.

jackboy

Discodog wrote: »

Of course not. Have you ever tried approaching the Guards with an animal welfare issue?

A foal was stoned to death, by a load of kids & with plenty of witnesses in Galway. The Guards said that it was up to the GSPCA who have no legal power.

Yet people post here saying that one should report animal abuse to the Guards.

Fair enough. That is a far wider problem then if the guards do not consider animal cruelty to be illegal.

MIKEKC

jackboy wrote: »

It would be illegal. Was the man on the radio arrested for contributing to that?

I presume not. I just heard the programme.

Tilikum17

Newstalk are talking about this documentary now.

Igotadose

Been awhile, but one of the trainers mentioned in the programme, was just convicted of having banned substances in his possession.

Still appears to have his trainer's license though. Can't get some pesky conviction get in the way. I wonder if he'd actually gone to prison rather than had that part of his sentence waived, would he still be able to "train" greyhounds.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/greyhound-trainer-convicted-of-possessing-controlled-animal-remedies-1.4605664

The Nal

How long before we ban this barbaric nonsense?