RTE Investigates programme on greyhound racing industry

Discodog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We’re almost in the 2020’s now. We’ve moved on a lot.

Really? How many injuries & deaths, during races, in 2019?

2017 Injuries: 357. Deaths: 124

2016 Injuries: 427. Deaths: 139

2015 Injuries: 422. Deaths: 122

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

Really? How many injuries & deaths, during races, in 2019?

2017 Injuries: 357. Deaths: 124

2016 Injuries: 427. Deaths: 139

2015 Injuries: 422. Deaths: 122

More repeats? And as said previously the statistics as already detailed on this thread show the actual death rate (dogs pts by vets etc) is less than 1 percent at 0.14% per 100000 dogs raced. And no - no one is even excusing that.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Really? How many injuries & deaths, during races, in 2019?

2017 Injuries: 357. Deaths: 124

2016 Injuries: 427. Deaths: 139

2015 Injuries: 422. Deaths: 122

How many were found in the river Suir in those years?

MIKEKC

Deleted User wrote: »

How many were found in the river Suir in those years?

A lot of floods in the River Suir in the last few years , probably washed out to sea

Discodog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How many were found in the river Suir in those years?

You unsurprisingly didn't answer the question?

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

You unsurprisingly didn't answer the question?

What was the question this time? Was it another impossibility?

MIKEKC

Discodog wrote: »

You unsurprisingly didn't answer the question?

No idea haven't been walking the Quay in years. I don't think it's happening now. Too many lights and too much traffic on Quay

Hellrazer

gozunda wrote: »

More repeats? And as said previously the statistics as already detailed on this thread show the actual death rate (dogs pts by vets etc) is less than 1 percent at 0.14% per 100000 dogs raced. And no - no one is even excusing that.

That only accounts for 140 dogs.
The very first post in this thread says there are 16,000 born every year and almost 6000 killed because they aren't fast enough.
That's an absolute disgrace and no one should condone or support that.

People here are trying to defend an industry that kills...yes kills 6000 dogs per year. There is no defending those statistics.

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

That only accounts for 140 dogs.
The very first post in this thread says there are 16,000 born every year and almost 6000 killed because they aren't fast enough.
That's an absolute disgrace and no one should condone or support that.

People here are trying to defend an industry that kills...yes kills 6000 dogs per year. There is no defending those statistics.

There is no truth in that statistic as it doesn’t account for
(A) Dogs retired as pets with owners
(B) Dogs that are bred for coursing
(C) Dogs that have been sold, mainly to the Uk, but other Europe countries, eg Sweden

“ At the moment, there are 3,600 greyhounds in the country. In 2018, there were 2,344 litters. We send about 6,500 greyhounds to England every year.
There are about 2,000 greyhounds coursing. Those are the current figures.”
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_agriculture_food_and_the_marine/2019-07-09/7/

anewme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is no truth in that statistic as it doesn’t account for
(A) Dogs retired as pets with owners
(B) Dogs that are bred for coursing
(C) Dogs that have been sold, mainly to the Uk, but other Europe countries, eg Sweden

“ At the moment, there are 3,600 greyhounds in the country. In 2018, there were 2,344 litters. We send about 6,500 greyhounds to England every year.
There are about 2,000 greyhounds coursing. Those are the current figures.”
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_agriculture_food_and_the_marine/2019-07-09/7/

What about the ones sent to Spain....such as the ones DSPCA discovered this week injured and dehydrated?

Hellrazer

Deleted User wrote: »

There is no truth in that statistic as it doesn’t account for
(A) Dogs retired as pets with owners
(B) Dogs that are bred for coursing
(C) Dogs that have been sold, mainly to the Uk, but other Europe countries, eg Sweden

“ At the moment, there are 3,600 greyhounds in the country. In 2018, there were 2,344 litters. We send about 6,500 greyhounds to England every year.
There are about 2,000 greyhounds coursing. Those are the current figures.”
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_agriculture_food_and_the_marine/2019-07-09/7/

The figures I quoted are from a report that the IGB commissioned and which was never released.
So which is it? If the IGB have nothing to hide then they should release that report to the public.
It might go some way to them saving whatever ounce of decency they have left.

gozunda

Hellrazer wrote: »

That only accounts for 140 dogs.
The very first post in this thread says there are 16,000 born every year and almost 6000 killed because they aren't fast enough.
That's an absolute disgrace and no one should condone or support that.People here are trying to defend an industry that kills...yes kills 6000 dogs per year. There is no defending those statistics.

Indeed it does and it is correct. The figures give to data from 2016 which gave 139 dogs pts or died due to injuries etc and yes that rate amounts to a figure of 0.14%. In 2015 the rate was 0.13%

If you read the thread this has already been gone over many times.

Heres the original post on this.

" wrote:

IGBnumbers. https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/139-greyhounds-put-down-over-race-injuries-462935.html So, stop denying it's happening. It is. What do you suggest change to reduce it to zero?

gozunda wrote: »

The figure given in that link detail 139 deaths out of 100000 dogs raced. That's a figure of 0.14%

Again not defending anything. However 0.14% is much less than 1%. Can it be reduced? I suppose it might - but even humans die whilst participating in sports. Do dogs die when being exercised? Yes they do. Do dogs die in their beds at night - yes they do. How do you suggest we reduce all these terrible deaths to zero?

As for the claim that 6000 are killed according to some - again this has been detailed in this thread many times

This from nearly 5 months ago. It still stands

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110544891&postcount=350

6,000 were not 'killed'. UP to 6,000 aren’t accounted for from age 3 months.

So again

The dogs detailed were unaccounted - and not 'killed' as is repeated by the usual screamers and then repeated ad nauseam without checking. The previous system of recordings that dogs sold etc that where dogs were sold that recording that was not required. Afaik that is now changed

Whatever the failings of the IGB using ****e like that to continuously misrepresent the actual facts is puerile at best.

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

The figures I quoted are from a report that the IGB commissioned and which was never released.
So which is it? If the IGB have nothing to hide then they should release that report to the public.
It might go some way to them saving whatever ounce of decency they have left.

When the IGB realised that the figures left out coursing dogs, those sold abroad and those retired but still with owners as pets, they couldn’t issue the report.

Hellrazer

gozunda wrote: »

6,000 were not 'killed'. UP to 6,000 aren’t accounted for from age 3 months.

So again drop the hyperbole. The dogs detailed were unaccounted - and not 'killed' as is repeated by the usual screamers and then repeated ad nauseam without checking. The previous system of recordings that dogs sold etc that where dogs were sold that recording that was not required. Afaik that is now changed

Deleted User wrote: »

When the IGB realised that the figures left out coursing dogs, those sold abroad and those retired but still with owners as pets, they couldn’t issue the report.

The IGB didnt realease the report because "they didnt agree with the findings of it" despite them being the ones that paid for it.


So if what the 2 of you are saying is correct then release the report in its entirety for transparency sake.

Hiding the report / not releasing it doesnt make me view the IGB in any better light.

xckjoo

Those dogs aren't dead. They have just gone to live on a farm somewhere :pac:

Seriously though, I'd accept the line about the numbers being off if they actually made an effort to redo them. I suspect that the numbers are still higher than they want to admit so they'll just leave things as is and just say that the report is wrong.

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

The IGB didnt realease the report because "they didnt agree with the findings of it" despite them being the ones that paid for it.


So if what the 2 of you are saying is correct then release the report in its entirety for transparency sake.

Hiding the report / not releasing it doesnt make me view the IGB in any better light.

I thought that it was released? It shows that the figure unaccounted for is about the right figure for coursing dogs. There would a number of pups reared in Ireland but never race here, being English owned and raced.

gozunda

xckjoo wrote: »

Those dogs aren't dead. They have just gone to live on a farm somewhere :pac:Seriously though, I'd accept the line about the numbers being off if they actually made an effort to redo them. I suspect that the numbers are still higher than they want to admit so they'll just leave things as is and just say that the report is wrong.

My neighbour who keeps greyhounds has a couple of golden oldies retired from racing. But from it would appear that yes many were sold on and that wasnt recorded back then either.

The figures are not available simply because when a dog was sold retired etc - that was not recorded. So it's not possible to 'redo' those figures. Afaik recording has now changed. I do agree that this is important. I also believe we need something similar for the sale etc of the huge number of pet dogs in this county - but that is another discussion.

gozunda

Hellrazer wrote: »

The IGB didnt realease the report because "they didnt agree with the findings of it" despite them being the ones that paid for it.So if what the 2 of you are saying is correct then release the report in its entirety for transparency sake.
Hiding the report / not releasing it doesnt make me view the IGB in any better light.

I have nothing to do with greyhounds. And I'm not the IGB either. And no I'm not hiding the report either.

Afaik the report was compiled with the information which was available at the time much of which was sadly lacking. The IGB have rightly been criticised for that.

xckjoo

gozunda wrote: »

My neighbour who keeps greyhounds has a couple of golden oldies retired from racing. But from it would appear that yes many were sold on and that wasnt recorded back then either.

The figures are not available simply because when a dog was sold retired etc - that was not recorded. So it's not possible to 'redo' those figures. Afaik recording has now changed. I do agree that this is important. I also believe we need something similar for the sale etc of the huge number of pet dogs in this county - but that is another discussion.

There's plenty of sampling techniques that can be done to get accurate estimations of this kind of thing. They just continuously hide behind a wall of ineptitude and expect it to be acceptable behaviour. That's my biggest issue. I don't have a problem with greyhound racing as a concept, but the dogs welfare should be at the forefront of the sport. If the IGB can't handle it then they deserve to be hauled over the coals.

Agreed on the pet dogs thing. The optimist in me thinks we're getting better as a nation for this but maybe not. But as you said, it's for another discussion.

Discodog

If all the "unaccounted for" dogs were alive we would be knee deep in Greyhounds.

The IGB have repeatedly lied in the past & hidden data so why should we trust them now?

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

There's plenty of sampling techniques that can be done to get accurate estimations of this kind of thing. They just continuously hide behind a wall of ineptitude and expect it to be acceptable behaviour. That's my biggest issue. I don't have a problem with greyhound racing as a concept, but the dogs welfare should be at the forefront of the sport. If the IGB can't handle it then they deserve to be hauled over the coals.

Agreed on the pet dogs thing. The optimist in me thinks we're getting better as a nation for this but maybe not. But as you said, it's for another discussion.

Thankfully, it is being done now. The Stud Book (ICC) has to be notified when a dog leaves our care, retires or dies.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

If all the "unaccounted for" dogs were alive we would be knee deep in Greyhounds.

The IGB have repeatedly lied in the past & hidden data so why should we trust them now?

I never knew that greyhounds were immortal!

Very few live beyond 10 years. Though, I’ve had a 14 and a 15 year old.

Discodog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I never knew that greyhounds were immortal!

Very few live beyond 10 years. Though, I’ve had a 14 and a 15 year old.

According to the IGB 15000 puppies were born each year. So according to you there should be 150,000. Even with an allowance for premature death there should be Greyhounds everywhere. But strangely you rarely see them.

jackboy

Discodog wrote: »

According to the IGB 15000 puppies were born each year. So according to you there should be 1.5 million. Even with an allowance for premature death there should be Greyhounds everywhere. But strangely you rarely see them.

Check your maths!

Discodog

jackboy wrote: »

Check your maths!

Corrected but it's still a huge figure. Do you know where they are?

jackboy

Discodog wrote: »

Corrected but it's still a huge figure. Do you know where they are?

No, don’t know the breakdown of where they are. Of course accurate figures and a breakdown of where they are would be useful.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

According to the IGB 15000 puppies were born each year. So according to you there should be 150,000. Even with an allowance for premature death there should be Greyhounds everywhere. But strangely you rarely see them.

About 6,000 are exported to the Uk every year.
Greyhounds aren’t let run loose. On my premises alone, I would have an average of 25 greyhounds of all ages at any one time.
Dogs do eventually die.

Muahahaha

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trouble is people actually believe this sh1te. The vast majority of greyhound owners wound never stoop so low.

I see you are still peddling these lies months later. Did you ever manage to come up with an explanation as to why 15 out of 30 knackeries were offering a service to shoot greyhounds? That's 50% of all knackeries in the country yet you're still on here pushing the spin that it's only a minority of owners who are the problem. Sorry Maryanne but the facts clearly state other wise.

Plus I'm not sure how you feel you have the authority to speak for the actions of all greyhound owners nationwide and claim to know what they are up to. Do you visit them all weekly or something, constantly sulking around their property so you can then come onto boards and claim they are all decent skins ? You must be very busy.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

I see you are still peddling these lies months later. Did you ever manage to come up with an explanation as to why 15 out of 30 knackeries were offering a service to shoot greyhounds? That's 50% of all knackeries in the country yet you're still on here pushing the spin that it's only a minority of owners who are the problem. Sorry Maryanne but the facts clearly state other wise.

Plus I'm not sure how you feel you have the authority to speak for the actions of all greyhound owners nationwide and claim to know what they are up to. Do you visit them all weekly or something, constantly sulking around their property so you can then come onto boards and claim they are all decent skins ? You must be very busy.

Knackeries can no longer put greyhounds, or other dogs, down. Same goes for Pounds and Vets.

I know enough greyhound folk, and have spent time at their homes/kennels to know that they’re decent folk who care for their animals same way as I care for mine.

wardides

Just the 25 Greyhound meetings tomorrow, with an average of 10 races per meeting. Average of 5 dogs per race, that's just the 1,250 dogs on a track tomorrow.

First race at 8.12am. That's your issue.

It's not an industry built out of love for animals. Rotten industry ran and participated, mostly, by people who are led by one thing - Money. Dog welfare far down the agenda.