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Why I am not a feminist and don't believe in 'equality'.

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    #152
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    We are better and worse at some things???

    Oh don't worry nothing is making a comeback. I am entirely original and no one agrees with me.

    To be honest I value women more. I think our personality traits (as I see them ) have more value in the world.

    Compassion is what builds world peace.

    Men just do war.

    Really? Is there not space for the traits of women and men to complement and live alongside each other? I certainly don't see one gender as being better than the other.


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    #153
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Could you clear up something else for me? Is troll thread still a troll thread if op contributes about 75% of posts? Or is it just attention seeking?


    Not trolling at all. :)

    I didn't THINK CONSCIOUSLY it was attention seeking. But if you see it as such there must be some truth to that i was unaware of.

    I would say undermining my views through calling me a troll isn't ..really fair to me.

    But its your genuine opinion and i just have to respect that.


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    #154
    Fizzlesque
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Fizzlesque


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    When I was growing up in the 80s there was and still is a nasty belief that girls are smarter than boys, this was repeated to my class over the years, it is a horrible thing to be telling young boys...or that girls mature faster than boys...which is ridiculous, boys mature differently than girls, like girls capabilities are different to boys...

    I have never seen a more repugnant message that what our young men are receiving these days...


    Your school shouldn't have been telling boys they weren't as smart as girls. Neither gender should be undermining the other.


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    #155
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

    Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

    You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
    But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....


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    #156
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Fizzlesque wrote: »
    Your school shouldn't have been telling boys they weren't as smart as girls. Neither gender should be undermining the other.

    Do you think it was just my school?


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    #157
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Really? Is there not space for the traits of women and men to complement and live alongside each other?

    I don't know if it's ever been achieved in harmony yet. But yes I hope so. :)


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    #158
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    True.

    I am not excluding other genders.

    However (and you don't have to agree with it) i do think there are some basic truths about feminine and masculine traits for most people not all maybe.


    That is just life experience.

    In your opening post you seem to be espousing a return to traditional gender norms. i.e teach feminine traits to girls.

    Those defined traits were a strait jacket for many people. Not all men are competitive or aggressive. Plenty succeed quite well by seeking out consensus, building alliances.
    Not all women are stay at home domestic types. Some Women are extremely competitive.
    That does not mean they are artificially taking on male traits they are simply expressing their own personality. Modern society allows them to do so.
    Previous generations of women did not get the chance.

    The womens world cup will not match the mens game for popularity, but it is a million miles further on than 20 years ago.
    I have watched a few games, the competitiveness and intensity would easily match the men's game.

    Likewise previous generations of men did not get the opportunity to really engage with the rearing of their kids. Sometimes just there for discipline. Men missed out on so much.

    Both genders owe a debt to feminism, I wouldn't be too quick to knock it


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    #159
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,443 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    looksee wrote: »
    RIP the English language. This is what happens when everyone feels free to use words to mean what they want them to mean. And when students are not permitted to engage in proper debate in University in case someone might be offended.

    Indeed. One extremely incensed contributor to the thread can't even spell the word in question.


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    #160
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Hedgelayer wrote: »
    And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

    Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

    You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
    But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....

    I had not noticed. I will look out for it though and give it a feel. :)


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    #161
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Hedgelayer wrote: »
    Exactly, and when you say femmimisn undermines women you're right.
    I know a few recovering femminists and they look back at how their version of third wave feminism ruined their chance's of having a loving relationship and they woke up to the fact that femmimisn is another movement like religion or socialism.

    Is there a such thing as a moderate femminst ?

    Most straight guy's I know run a mile from femminists, unless they're cucks.

    Thats another story

    It sounds like you just have a problem with women in general, being honest.


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    #162
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,443 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Hedgelayer wrote: »
    And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

    Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

    You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
    But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....

    I dunno, you seem pretty outraged to me.


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    #163
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,679 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    I don't know if it's ever been achieved in harmony yet. But yes I hope so. :)

    You believe female traits (whatever they are) have more value than male traits (again ?)
    Can you explain what you think those traits are and why some are better than others?


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    #164
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    It sounds like you just have a problem with women in general, being honest.

    Actually he sounds like he has a problem with feminists, there is a difference...but see what you want to see...


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    #165
    Fizzlesque
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Fizzlesque


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Do you think it was just my school?

    To be honest, I think you're trying to undermine my experience as described in my post and I have no wish to get into a pointless "we had it worse than you" back and forth with you.


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    #166
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Jaysus. All over the shop.

    Anyway, hardly anyone in the real world scorns stay at home mums or femininity. The latter is the preference overall.

    And you'd swear women can only be either a butch aggressive type or a little fairy like creature. As if there isn't miles in between. Like you can't be strong and vulnerable, like you can't be independent yet girlie.

    I'm not a feminist now either and yes men and women are different, but I'm darn glad of the earlier feminists.


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    #167
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Actually he sounds like he has a problem with feminists, there is a difference...but see what you want to see...

    He doesn't even seem to know what a feminist is, so I'll have to disagree with you there.

    He seems to equate any horrible woman he meets (which isn't gender specific, men can be horrible too) with being a feminist.


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    #168
    LittleMissLogic
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭LittleMissLogic


    Calina wrote: »
    as arguments go a lot of this is drivel. You are standing on the shoulders of the giants who made it possible to work and vote and have choices.

    Women who work at home are not scorned. They are exploited by society. The cost of replacing their effort would be huge. Instead we A) dont ensure they are adequately paid for their effort b) their pension provisions are dire. Women are under served by health systems.

    Young women who claim not to be feminists are free to declare so. But the beauty of their lives compared to their mothers and grandmothers is owed to women who a) had a lot more guts than they do and b) who are feminists.

    I think I love you.


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    #169
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Fizzlesque wrote: »
    To be honest, I think you're trying to undermine my experience as described in my post and I have no wish to get into a pointless "we had it worse than you" back and forth with you.

    Actually I am trying to demonstrate that both genders don't have it easy...sorry for undermining your victimhood!


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    #170
    LittleMissLogic
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭LittleMissLogic


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    Jaysus. All over the shop.

    Anyway, hardly anyone in the real world scorns stay at home mums or femininity. The latter is the preference overall.

    And you'd swear women can only be either a butch aggressive type or a little fairy like creature. As if there isn't miles in between. Like you can't be strong and vulnerable, like you can't be independent yet girlie.

    I'm not a feminist now either and yes men and women are different, but I'm darn glad of the earlier feminists.

    And why are you not a feminist?


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    #171
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    joe40 wrote: »
    In your opening post you seem to be espousing a return to traditional gender norms. i.e teach feminine traits to girls.

    Those defined traits were a strait jacket for many people. Not all men are competitive or aggressive. Plenty succeed quite well by seeking out consensus, building alliances.
    Not all women are stay at home domestic types. Some Women are extremely competitive.
    That does not mean they are artificially taking on male traits they are simply expressing their own personality. Modern society allows them to do so.
    Previous generations of women did not get the chance.

    The womens world cup will not match the mens game for popularity, but it is a million miles further on than 20 years ago.
    I have watched a few games, the competitiveness and intensity would easily match the men's game.

    Likewise previous generations of men did not get the opportunity to really engage with the rearing of their kids. Sometimes just there for discipline. Men missed out on so much.

    Both genders owe a debt to feminism, I wouldn't be too quick to knock it


    We owe nothing to feminism. It wasn't the reason for change.

    Lets face it if it started in the 1700's and middle class women really only started working in the 1960s that is not feminism. That is technological changes and capitalism.
    I wouldn't credit feminism with that.

    I don't agree with the first part of what you said.

    Nor do i think it's a good thing.

    Imagine a society with zero nurturing etc. ??

    I don't think men will become more feminine.


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    #172
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,176 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    LittleMissLogic wrote: »
    And why are you not a feminist?

    Is that MEAT??!!?? :pac:


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    #173
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Hedgelayer wrote: »
    And another thing is have you seen or heard all the adverts lately on the radio portraying how thick men are and how only women have the answer....

    Some guy with a thick accent being undermined by a lady with a post southside accent...

    You don't see the men bouncing off the walls.
    But if the shoe was on the other foot there would be outraged....
    Not a new thing at all - yes it has been noticed. It's woeful.

    You should check out Iloveyourvibes' comments about men such as "they only do war". Not "on your side" like you think she is.


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    #174
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    He doesn't even seem to know what a feminist is, so I'll have to disagree with you there.

    He seems to equate any horrible woman he meets (which isn't gender specific, men can be horrible too) with being a feminist.

    Nobody seems to know what a feminist is these days...about from an obscure "equality"agenda, that is completely one sided.


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    #175
    ZilkyG
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 71 ✭✭ZilkyG


    I think like most sane people, you're completely alienated by modern feminism, which was hijacked by upper-middle class American college students. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you choose to bestow a stupid label on yourself, the majority of people here support the same thing; freedom to live life as you see fit.


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    #176
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    We owe nothing to feminism. It wasn't the reason for change.

    Lets face it if it started in the 1700's and middle class women really only started working in the 1960s that is not feminism. That is technological changes and capitalism.
    I wouldn't credit feminism with that.

    I don't agree with the first part of what you said.

    Nor do i think it's a good thing.

    Imagine a society with zero nurturing etc. ??

    I don't think men will become more feminine.
    Whether you like it or not, the Suffragettes' ideology was feminist ideology.

    And thank heavens for those women.


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    #177
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,443 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Nobody seems to know what a feminist is these days...about from an obscure "equality"agenda, that is completely one sided.

    Nonsense. Allow me to explain it to you: feminism is the belief that women should be treated equally to men. No better, no worse. It really is that simple.


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    #178
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    ZilkyG wrote: »
    I think like most sane people, you're completely alienated by modern feminism, which was hijacked by upper-middle class American college students. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if you choose to bestow a stupid label on yourself, the majority of people here support the same thing; freedom to live life as you see fit.

    Perfectly well said, throw in an all pervasive media narrative and social media rabbit holes and bingo...


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    #179
    Fizzlesque
    Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭Fizzlesque


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Actually I am trying to demonstrate that both genders don't have it easy...sorry for undermining your victimhood!


    I don't believe you were trying to demonstrate that both genders don't have it easy.

    Your last little snipe at the end of your post suggests otherwise.

    Goodbye, we have nothing more to discuss.


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    #180
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Dial Hard wrote: »
    Nonsense. Allow me to explain it to you: feminism is the belief that women should be treated equally to men. No better, no worse. It really is that simple.

    And nobody would argue that...what rights do Irish men have that Irish women don't and I'll sign up right now!


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    #181
    Blaizes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Blaizes


    joe40 wrote: »
    With all due respect I couldn't disagree more. Ireland becoming less kind as a society? I was a teenager in the 80s modern society is much kinder and much more tolerant.

    I have a 13 year old son and a 15 year old daughter. I didn't need to teach masculine or feminine traits kids find their own personality, we just try not to f*ck them up too much.

    My son is into football my daughter loves Ballet. All nice and gender confomative, the thing the work, exercise, skill and determination she puts into her ballet is multiples of what my son puts into his football.

    It is great to hear you have well adjusted happy children and obviously you are a good parent but looking collectively at Irish society now in comparison to years ago it is difficult to see how we are kinder especially when you look at crime levels, something is making people less kind to each other and more aggressive, my two cents anyway.


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